Horse pulling back when farrier nails up?

EquestrianE01

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I will preface this by saying the vet is coming on Monday, but just wanted to hear what others might have to say.

14yo Thoroughbred mare, always been absolutely angelic for the farrier. Only issue has been she is sometimes slightly stiff with her back legs due to arthritic hocks, but I have a very patient farrier who is lovely with her.
She was fully retired with shoes off, but mentally didn't cope very well. So about 10 months ago we started to slowly bring her back into work, she only does inhand stuff, but I'd still say she's in light-medium work load as she schools on the long lines twice a week, and does 1hr+ hacks ride & lead 3 days a week. She's been back in shoes for about 8 months now.
For the last 2 or 3 shoeings (she gets done every 4 weeks, by my choice not out of necessarily needing to be done that often), I've noticed that she's chucking her head up and trying to pull back in the cross ties when the farrier starts nailing the shoes on her fronts. This last time was fairly bad, she was hopping back and making loud grunting noises, her face also looked really pinched and she was wrinkling her lips. Farrier was really patient with her, but we both finished off fairly concerned and he said I think we need a vet to look at her.
This was yesterday and I've obviously booked the vet to come ASAP, they could've come sooner but it wouldn't have been my vet that knows the mare.
I have workups done for this horse every 6 months and she is super sound, absolutely no lameness in front on the hard or soft, and believe me, we definitely try our hardest to make anything show up. She can trot a 10 metre circle on concrete and not show anything, even if we nerve block one foot, she's never even 1/10th on the other. She is due her hocks to be injected, which we're planning on doing when she has her teeth done in February, but I can't see why that might be an issue?
She has got splints in both front legs below the knee, but again I get them checked regularly and they've never been an issue.
Does anyone have any idea what might cause her to behave like this? She was absolutely vile for the physio last Friday too, which is very unlike her. Physio couldn't find anything wrong, but also suggested perhaps we should keep an eye on her. She has the physio every 8 weeks and we've been so happy with her up until this last visit.
She doesn't look like a horse in pain, fantastic flat belly, big round bum, and a beautiful back with absolutely no dips or bumps!
I'll obviously do whatever I need to keep her happy and comfortable, but just absolutely lost as to what could be causing her to behave like this when she's showing no other signs of pain!

ETA: she is in natural balance shoes which the farrier uses as standard, no clips and a rolled toe. She is just in basic steel shoes, no pads or anything extra.
 

Bellalily

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Find yourself a decent trimmer who will support you on her journey without shoes. You may need boots and they’ll also advise the correct diet for her to have healthy feet. 😊 It’s especially important to sort the diet.
 

Polos Mum

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As a cold reader of your description it screamed pain to me. Something going on in her feet, if it's a change in behavior she's unlikely to be behaving like that to wind you up.

You've done the first sensible step which is call the vet, foot xrays may be useful but I'm sure the vet will guide you.

Is there any option of working her in boots rather than shoes - if she is finding now so uncomfortable?

Or as above bute to shoe - if that is the only way.
 

EquestrianE01

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It sounds like nailing on is hurting and I'd be testing her for Cushing's with the Stim test, because that causes pain in the feet.

It also sounds like she's treated better than Royalty!
.

You know I've been thinking of testing for cushings for a while, she did get tested a year ago and came back negative, but it can change so quickly can't it. I will talk to the vet about testing again, she's 15 this year so apparently you get one free cushings test a year after 15
 

EquestrianE01

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As a cold reader of your description it screamed pain to me. Something going on in her feet, if it's a change in behavior she's unlikely to be behaving like that to wind you up.

You've done the first sensible step which is call the vet, foot xrays may be useful but I'm sure the vet will guide you.

Is there any option of working her in boots rather than shoes - if she is finding now so uncomfortable?

Or as above bute to shoe - if that is the only way.

I definitely think something must be going on, it's just so unlike her.
For various reasons I'm not willing to take the shoes off whilst she's working, if they come she will have to be retired again. I know that's not a popular opinion these days, but unfortunately it just wouldn't work for us.
 

Fanatical

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It will almost certainly be pain.

I had one who was THE most willing boy in every way. Angelic for every part of being shod EXCEPT the nailing on. He started bunny hopping when the farrier was nailing on. This progressed to full on rearing and one day he threw himself over backwards. We investigated and turned out he had severe arthritis in his neck, causing an impingement and nerve pain. So the nailing on was likely giving him severe nerve pain.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I think that's what the vet is thinking too. Unfortunately she's already on Previcox every day, so if arthritis is causing her pain, some very difficult decisions might have to be made 😕
Then I would test for Cushings and as ycbm says use the TRH-stim test rather than ACTH
, as it is more accurate although more expensive.
 

catembi

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My TB was bad for the farrier. It turns out that he had a lot going on. He had KS surgery in 2015, treated for ulcers & it turned out that he also had type 2 PSSM. He has been b/f since 2015 which is sooooo much easier for all concerned. And his feet are a lot better & stronger now that he's not pulling off shoes & lumps of foot every few days! He will be 20 next month.
 

EquestrianE01

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My TB was bad for the farrier. It turns out that he had a lot going on. He had KS surgery in 2015, treated for ulcers & it turned out that he also had type 2 PSSM. He has been b/f since 2015 which is sooooo much easier for all concerned. And his feet are a lot better & stronger now that he's not pulling off shoes & lumps of foot every few days! He will be 20 next month.

She does have back issues, hence why she isn't ridden. She fell over and cracked 2 vertebrae a couple of years ago, and since then it has developed into KS around the affected areas.
She very, very rarely pulls shoes and has lovely short toes with good heels and frogs (not typical TB feet), so I'm not worried in that regard as outwardly her feet appear very healthy. Not to say there isn't something going on inside mind.

Hind end problems (you say she’s due hick injections) often result in them pulling back/tearing up when they’re fronts are being done.

That's really interesting, thank you. She literally only has a issue with the nailing, absolutely fine for having them off, the trimming, and clenching up isn't an issue. But still definitely worth thinking about.

I've spoken to the vet and our game plan is thus, we're going to test for cushings as she grew a coat like a mammoth this year, inject the hocks, and she is due her yearly hoof x-rays too so we'll do those aswell, just to check. If all of those come up with nothing, then we will see where we go from there.
Thank you all so much! I will let you know how it goes on Monday.
 

Gloi

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Hind end problems (you say she’s due hock injections) often result in them pulling back/rearing up when their fronts are being done.

Edited because I didn't have my glasses on and my phone took over.
I was just going to say that. When her front feet are held up it will put more pressure on her hocks.
 

EquestrianE01

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Often it's the nailing on that highlights problems - the trimming part is much easier on them and quite often the leg isn't held up for as long, or in the same way, as it is for nailing on. What's she like for finishing off with her fronts up on the stand?

Absolutely fine, loves to have nice stretch back. Although I guess that in and of itself could suggest an issue too, I've never really thought a lot of it as we do leg stretches everyday and she really enjoys them.
 

suestowford

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I'm just wondering, when her front foot is released after nailing on, does she put it straight back down?
There is a pony here who wasn't coping with the nailing on, and he would take a long time after it to put his foot back down properly. That was due to arthritis.
 

Horseysheepy

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I had a horse who became very pulling back when nailing on his shoes after years of being fine.

He was soon after diagnosed with bilateral coffin joint arthritis and the hammering of the nails must have been very jarring on his painful foot joints.
Took shoes off to minimise concussion but sadly PTS a few years later.

Hope you get to the bottom of it soon.
 

EquestrianE01

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I'm just wondering, when her front foot is released after nailing on, does she put it straight back down?
There is a pony here who wasn't coping with the nailing on, and he would take a long time after it to put his foot back down properly. That was due to arthritis.

Yes, will stand happily on it straight away.
 

EquestrianE01

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I had a horse who became very pulling back when nailing on his shoes after years of being fine.

He was soon after diagnosed with bilateral coffin joint arthritis and the hammering of the nails must have been very jarring on his painful foot joints.
Took shoes off to minimise concussion but sadly PTS a few years later.

Hope you get to the bottom of it soon.

This is my biggest concern I think, she has some slight swellings just above the coronet in both front feet and I'm worried that it's pointing to something like that. They're in the wrong place for ringbone I think, but I guess the x-rays will tell us. God, this weekend is going to go slowly! I'm not good at not knowing
 

Fire sign

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I think that's what the vet is thinking too. Unfortunately she's already on Previcox every day, so if arthritis is causing her pain, some very difficult decisions might have to be made 😕
When she was still in work my mare was on previcox every day for arthritis but had additional Bute for shoeing on vet advice .. after years of previous good behaviour she was showing signs of discomfort when farrier was nailing on the shoes
Vet advised a sachet of Bute on the day before , the actual day and the day after as well as her dose of Previcox…….. don’t know if this would work for yours but seems to suit mine for quite a few years …
 
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