Horse sore after first barefoot trim , is this normal ?

[Tacobell]

Hi all,
I am transitioning my horse to barefoot after a navicular diagnosis in both fronts. He had his shoes off 5 weeks ago and had his first trim today . (5 week cycle) . Straight after the trim he was fine and was out in the field all day and walked in fine . I got him out of the stable this morning and he looked really lame on both fronts. I gave him a danillon and walked him up to his field on every grass patch I could find and he looked much better on the soft . Is this normal ?
He is currently on field rest as has a bone bruise he is recovering from so not riding currently .
Pics of feet when shoes just taken off and after first trim yest .

 

[Tacobell]

 

[Tacobell]

Sorry some of the files are too big to attach

 

[j1ffy]

It's not normal and I'd be talking to your trimmer about it. Have they taken a lot off underneath? It's hard to tell what they've done from the photos, although I'm sure some far more knowledgeable people will be along soon to take a look.

The 'before' (I think) photo shows a very deep central sulcus, which will be hiding a lot of thrush and is likely to be very sore. Are you treating the thrush as well?

 

[Boulty]

Hard to say from the photos you’ve posted but the possibilities would be either that they’ve trimmed a bit too short or that they’ve tried to improve / alter foot shape too quickly and have removed some structure that the horse still needed support from at this time or have caused the horse to over load weak parts of the foot that aren’t ready for it yet (eg lopping off a long toe all in one go can cause issues if the caudal hoof is weak… it needs to build up, improve & recover before it can tolerate that) If totally sound in the field then maybe monitor & try your best to avoid uncomfortable surfaces. If not sound in the field may be an idea to get some boots & pads if you haven’t already and use them until horse more comfortable. Yes it will delay your foot conditioning but you can’t do conditioning work with a horse that’s sore anyway and the support from the pads should give some stimulation to weaker areas as well. If your ground has done what ours has & suddenly gone from wet & soft to dry & firm that may not help either. Would also start treating that central sulcus split for thrush if you aren’t already. I like red horse products, leukillin (sp?) & leovet hoof medic but other products are available.

Chat to your trimmer about it. It shouldn’t be normal but sadly some do seem to accept it as so. Hopefully what will happen is that they’ll take less off / change less next time (which would be the whole point of a short trim cycle; to make subtle changes slowly) & / or delaying the next trim to give them more foot to work with

 

[TheBayThoroughbred]

Are you getting trims from a barefoot trimmer or a farrier? I don’t know if I’m going against the grain but I would seriously recommend a farrier, not a barefoot trimmer. There’s no standard qualification for barefoot trimmers, whereas farriers all complete the same rigorous training, and are able to balance feet.

It’s possible that they trimmed the feet too short, or attempted too much of a re correction. It can also just be a little bit of sensitivity, so I would wait a day or so to see if they are still lame. One of mine is barefoot and occasionally after a trim he’ll walk on hot coals for a day or so and then be fine. It can also be that his sole hasn’t adequately hardened and so it’s sensitive, but after a few days this goes away and he’ll be fine.

 

[TPO]

There are antidotes that horses experience their hooves "coming to life" approx 2-4wks after shoes come off. It's been likened to pins and needles as the blood flow to the hoof improves. There might be an element of that along with the trim.

It's hard to tell from the photos. Ideally you want to get the camera flat on the ground and straight/level. If you have a lookat the Rockley Farm Blog There are loads of hoof photos for reference

Agree re Thrush. Those heels are very contracted and the frog is weak and deep. Everyone has their own method and its a bit of trial and error. For frogs like that I use a babywipe to "floss" the frog and heels then pack them with Red Horse Hoof Stuff or Field Paste. I personally prefer Field Paste but Hoof Stuff is great for getting squished down into every crevice.

I also highly recommend reading the Hoof Geek website and blog.

 

[Red-1]

Is the horse at grass? It is growing like stink at the moment and I wonder if the grass flush has cause a pre-laminitis pain?

The trim itself looks pretty, but mine would not be as 'well trimmed' after just a month. I usually just do a light rasping round until they are further on.

The first photo looks like a before? Yes, there is thrush there, what did the trimmer recommend for that? It is possible that, with the extra trim, the horse now has to walk on the thrushy area, and that can make them sore even if everything else is OK.

 

[Orangehorse]

Riding in boots with pads in will help strengthen the foot.

It looks like a very "pretty" trim, I wonder if there was a bit too much taken off. Also, agree about the grass growing/laminitis risk.
Barefoot - early warning system.

 

[Melody Grey]

When I’ve transitioned horses to barefoot I’ve always taken the shoes off and not trimmed immediately. I’ve found that a little growth helps to protect the foot from the new demands initially. I appreciate there’s a diagnosis in play and you’ll be understandably keen to address this but sounds like too much too soon?

Hoof boots would be a good move even if only temporarily- some of the Facebook groups offer a supply of used boots from people who have been in a similar position.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I had the same happen with my mare last week, although my mares always been barefoot. My trimmer said it was due to sugar in the grass! She was suddenly footy the morning after, so not grass related. I’m going to use a farrier next time. I think she changed to much.

 

[Caol Ila]

I've had horses become sore after a trim. The first time, I thought, well, maybe it's the grass, and I used the chap for my other horse and my friend used him on hers. Those two became sore as well, and they'd never had a problem before. All of these have been barefoot their whole lives.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I've had horses become sore after a trim. The first time, I thought, well, maybe it's the grass, and I used the chap for my other horse and my friend used him on hers. Those two became sore as well, and they'd never had a problem before. All of these have been barefoot their whole lives.

Have they been sore since using someone else?

 

[Caol Ila]

Have they been sore since using someone else?

Nope. They've been fine with the farrier who does most of the horses at my barn.

 

[Tacobell]

This is a registered farrier who does the barefoot trim

 

[Caol Ila]

This is a registered farrier who does the barefoot trim

That's happened to me as well. The farrier would rasp the sole until it was totally flat, as if he was going to put a shoe on. Finally kicked my butt into moving yards because no one else would come to the yard in question due to politics.

Basically, barefoot trimming seems to be the wild west. Some registered farriers do a great trim. Others do a terrible one. Some trimmers/podiatrists do a great trim. Others not so much.

 

[PurBee]

Without underneath pics its hard to fully see how much has been trimmed to see what could be sore. The frog thrush as mentioned will be sore to walk on if the walls have been taken right down level to sole. It looks from the outside as if the bevelled hoof wall angle has possible taken off wall thickness that was previously helping support the foot and relieve the thrush soreness. Now the walls are harshly bevelled, i *imagine* underneath there’s not much wall thickness at the front/quarters for the hoof to land on.
(Some trimmers are so into bevelling there’s literally no wall thickness at all underneath to land-on, and the horse has the outer rim of sole and frog to walk on.)

Also, both fronts have red concussion marks on the outer wall. From the way the wall tubules are laying, that is likely from a low heel long toe growth pattern, which causes the hoof wall matrix to ‘squish’ at the outer quarters, causing the red marks. The placement of the marks could have been caused when he was shod, but depending on hoof growth-speed, that may have happened just as shoes were taken off, and the hoof had more flexibility.
These marks may have pushed the trimmer to take the walls right low, to relieve the pressure in the outer quarter walls. The risk of this is making the horse walk on sole and frog, which if weak, by thrush, usually - the horse is sore.
It’s sometimes a job of weighing up pro’s and cons’ trimming a hoof, and its easy to get it wrong if you under-estimate the severity of thrush for example.
It’s always best to trim cautiously at first as the hoof gets used to being ‘naked’ and strengthens up.

Some horses can be sore the next day as the adjustment of trim happens…everything within the foot re-adjusts to new angles/lengths of wall etc…and they can then be fine day 2/3/4 etc. Some remain sore if lots of adjustment with trim and weak overall hoof function/structures. Best to boot, stick to soft ground as growth happens.

The trimmer looks to be concerned with getting a foot ‘looking’ right, than giving the foot what it needs to grow into the right foot…i.e leaving more wall thickness underneath because the frog is weak, would make the hoof look wide and flare-like at the bottom, but if thats what the hoof needs , for now, it has to look ‘imperfect’. The outer walls have been rasped to quite high-up to make the walls appear uniform too - but that has taken off the waxy outer wall layer, which stops excess water soaking into the hoof. This tells me looks rather than function is the trimmers objective.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Can you see how the heels are tightly pushed together in the first picture? That is a sign of infection at the widest part of the frog, which has travelled up to the heel area. Are you able to soak his feet in a Dettol or iodine solution for ten or fifteen minutes a day? You may need to syringe the solution down between the swollen heels and flush out the area. Then dry off and slather in Field Paste or nappy cream or whatever you prefer. Boots with gel pads will make him more comfortable, and once the heels begin to spread, start hand walking to get some gentle pressure on the frogs. You should be looking at six to twelve months to transition and rehab these feet. If you feel your farrier is in a hurry to balance and 'put things right' then change to someone who will work at the horse's pace.

 

[PurBee]

Edited to add: upon closer-inspection, the outer wall rasping may have been done by the previous shoeing farrier. Farriers are usually into rasping the outer wall uniform. Barefoot crews (who are taught that hoof wall floor bevel style ) are usually taught not to rasp the waxy outer wall layer, so unusual to find that done by them.
So i may have wrongly assumed the after trim white hoof looking muddy, that the outer wall rasps marks were also done recently and just got muddy; when they could in fact be previous farrier’s work.

 

[Melody Grey]

I have found a big difference in farrier approaches to trimming- some trim to work barefoot and others (the more old fashioned type in my experience) are trimming to be shod, even if they’re not being.

 

[Tacobell]

Thank you all for all the help thus far .
Is purple spray ok for thrush treatment .. if not what do you recommend ?
I am in contact with the hoof boutique shop and awaiting advice on best boots to suit his measurements.
This is a new farrier who was recommended to me by a friend who transitioned her horse to barefoot after navicular diagnosis. I moved away from my farrier as he was quite keen to stick wedges and pads on feet instead of barefoot so wanted someone more “on board”

 

[TPO]

Thank you all for all the help thus far .
Is purple spray ok for thrush treatment .. if not what do you recommend ?
I am in contact with the hoof boutique shop and awaiting advice on best boots to suit his measurements.
This is a new farrier who was recommended to me by a friend who transitioned her horse to barefoot after navicular diagnosis. I moved away from my farrier as he was quite keen to stick wedges and pads on feet instead of barefoot so wanted someone more “on board”

I personally don't rate off the shelf purple spray for much never mind thrush.

Highly recommend looking at Red Horse Products; specifically Hoof Stuff and Field Paste. I like the Sole Cleanse too.

Like I said up thread with heels like yours I'd "floss" with baby wipes. I'd also make sure hooves get some dry time [if you've had mud and rain anything like us] then pack with Hoof Stuff or smother in Field Paste.

 

[Red-1]

Thank you all for all the help thus far .
Is purple spray ok for thrush treatment .. if not what do you recommend ?
I am in contact with the hoof boutique shop and awaiting advice on best boots to suit his measurements.
This is a new farrier who was recommended to me by a friend who transitioned her horse to barefoot after navicular diagnosis. I moved away from my farrier as he was quite keen to stick wedges and pads on feet instead of barefoot so wanted someone more “on board”

I wouldn't necessarily change the farrier, the trim is pretty even if it was perhaps a bit early. I am disappointed (although not surprised) that they didn't mention the thrush.

The only 'purple spray' that works IMO is Terramyacin. That is not prescription only from the vet, and is also now turquoise. There is an equivalent sheep one, apparently, but I just bit the bullet and got the real deal.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

They can be footsore early on if the trim is too harsh I would say to farrier not to par back the frog or touch the sole, as some farriers will do it as a matter of course but some horses don't cope with a full trim especially early on.

 

[TPO]

The only 'purple spray' that works IMO is Terramyacin. That is not prescription only from the vet, and is also now turquoise. There is an equivalent sheep one, apparently, but I just bit the bullet and got the real deal.

I'd agree that terramyacin works (I'd always call that blue spray too) but I've been told by vets that it nips when used on thrush? Personally I'd prefer a gentler approach given that you need to handle the feet at least once daily to treat initially.

 

[Tacobell]

what is your "go to" treatment for thrush? ideally something i can pick up from naylors on way to yard this aft?
if not, i can order something but with it being friday.. i wont get it till early next week

 

[TPO]

what is your "go to" treatment for thrush? ideally something i can pick up from naylors on way to yard this aft?
if not, i can order something but with it being friday.. i wont get it till early next week

In your shoes (no pun intended) my go to would be Babywipes and nappy cream for immediate treatment while Red Horse products (my priority list would be Hoof Stuff, Field Paste then Sole Cleanse) were on order. Also worth picking up a syringe from a chemist to skoosh between the heel crevices.

 

[Tacobell]

In your shoes (no pun intended) my go to would be Babywipes and nappy cream for immediate treatment while Red Horse products (my priority list would be Hoof Stuff, Field Paste then Sole Cleanse) were on order. Also worth picking up a syringe from a chemist to skoosh between the heel crevices.

thank you. so after giving it a good clean with baby wipes, just smoother the frog area with nappy cream ?

 

[TPO]

thank you. so after giving it a good clean with baby wipes, just smoother the frog area with nappy cream ?

Sort of roll the wipes into a cylinder and "floss" between the heels and into the central sulcus.

Depending on the depth you can pack the central sulcus with half a wipe saturated in nappy cream and just pack it right in there. You might need to use a hoofpick to get it right in. Just be gentle because those heel bulbs will probably hurt. But basically pack the central sulcus right down and between heel bulbs. I personally would also smother the whole of the frog and the collateral grooves. The wipes will probably fall out but if not I remove them daily (with a hoofpick) and "floss" daily before packing out again.

The Red Horse Hoof Stuff is quite a firm putty with "bits" in it. I've found you need to scrape a dod out and warm it between your fingers to make it pliable. Then you want to stuff it into all holes and pack them right out. It usually stays a day or two then I'd replace.

If you get the sole cleanse initially I put some in a syringe and use it to blast between heels and into Central Sulcus to clean it out. Then dry it off with kitchen towel or blue paper and let stand a while in/on the dry before packing with hoof stuff and/or smothering in Field paste

 

[Tacobell]

thank you so much.

Sort of roll the wipes into a cylinder and "floss" between the heels and into the central sulcus.

Depending on the depth you can pack the central sulcus with half a wipe saturated in nappy cream and just pack it right in there. You might need to use a hoofpick to get it right in. Just be gentle because those heel bulbs will probably hurt. But basically pack the central sulcus right down and between heel bulbs. I personally would also smother the whole of the frog and the collateral grooves. The wipes will probably fall out but if not I remove them daily (with a hoofpick) and "floss" daily before packing out again.

The Red Horse Hoof Stuff is quite a firm putty with "bits" in it. I've found you need to scrape a dod out and warm it between your fingers to make it pliable. Then you want to stuff it into all holes and pack them right out. It usually stays a day or two then I'd replace.

If you get the sole cleanse initially I put some in a syringe and use it to blast between heels and into Central Sulcus to clean it out. Then dry it off with kitchen towel or blue paper and let stand a while in/on the dry before packing with hoof stuff and/or smothering in Field paste