Horse stabled permenantly!

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, really bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering....

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I'd dart it

 

[bhpride]

I would never in a million years keep a horse in 24/7 unless it was absolutely necessary (box rest due to injury for example)

I can honestly say I'd rather Tia was risking injury behaving naturally socialising in a field than being cooped up in a stable getting depressed. And if she did ever injure herself and became unrideable I'd always keep but her but I understand not everyones circumstances would allow this + if a horse is very valueable I can understand the need to keep a horse injury free.

But ultimately a horse is a horse and whatever there value and job is of no concern to them, only to us. Also excessive stabling is the cause of vices such as weaving, crib biting etc so no one can say it doesn't go without harming and depressing some horses. I say some because I think some horses can cope ok if well managed and I suppose it can be dependent on their personality as will, the ones that don't cope are the ones developing vices as a way of coping, kicking the door to bits and chewing everything in sight - or atleast that's what I saw at a yard with very limited turnout - mangled stables lol with chewed wood and broken doors from kicking.

 

[Skhosu]

not abusive, opinions. Abusive would certainly not be whats happening.
Why not turn out 24/7 then, avoids having a very excited horse to turn out.
Yes it is to suit you, and imo it is cruel. Call that judgemental if you will but horses given the choice will not stand in a stable for any length of time, when they have equal oppurtunity to go to a larger area(except in very adverse weather)
I do own accident prone competition horses so I know fine rightly the stresses turnout involves on humans. Turnout is also healthier for the horse re: ventilation and avoiding leg issues such as lymphangitis.

 

[connie1288]

Where does the depression come from??
My mare loved it, there was always someone to talk to or something going on, in the field she field walks, but wont box walk!
Many Stallions dont get turn out as it is not practical on competition yards.
They are very adjustable animals.

 

[Skhosu]

little_flea-an awful lot of ompetition horses have gastric ulcers too..and vices..Racehorses being the prime example of animals that are worked hard and kept in..

 

[somethingorother]

[ QUOTE ]
What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, really bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering....

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This would have been caused by inappropriate management at some point in the horses life, and locking it in a stable for convenience sake is only reinforcing that mismanagement. The way to deal with a horse that wont be caught, it a heck of a lot of time and patience. There are enough people who get practically wild ponies off dartmoor etc from the sales and then manage to get them perfectly accustomed to being caught.

 

[Bossanova]

I would explore all options for turnout but I know lots of horses who live in full time very happily. It's nice to lead them out to grass whenever possible

 

[TicTac]

Before I start, this is not meant to be a pop at you and why you keep your horse stabled, just a few suggestions.

How long have you had your horse and has he ever been used to turnout before you?

Like many others, I personally couldn't keep a horse stabled 24/7 for whatever reason. It's not natural or fair on the horse, but there are plenty who survive happily stabled with a varied routine. Having said that, even hard working horses like that of the Queen's do get an annual holiday out at grass.

Does he go nut's when turned out because he's never been used to it? I think you would find that once his injuries have healed and you get him used to going out in a paddock, he wouldn't go so wild every time he was turned out. Even if he went out on his own, in a small paddock with plenty of grass and just for a few hours, his quality of life would be better for him.

You would probably have to introduce him to turnout gradually, depending on his reactions.

 

[Spyda]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, really bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering....

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I'd dart it

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Mmmmm... tempting. Really, really tempting.
So, where do I get one. A dart gun, that is?

 

[little_flea]

Shkosu - yes, I agree, they do. To play devils advocate though - should different rules apply when it comes to keeping "working" horse (ie pro racer, SJ, breeding stallion etc) who actually need to make a living for their owner, compared to hobby horses (like most of ours, I'm sure)? The race horse industry is particularly hard on the animals - yet it is not illegal...

It comes back to the moral and philosophical issue of humans keeping animals really. To me the issue is similar to that of freerange animals for meat/eggs.

 

[Skhosu]

No. I don't believe they should. At the end of the day all those 'pro ' horses are doing it really for owner enjoyment, and plenty of top yards manage to give horses an hour or two out a day. I only eat free range too .

 

[kerilli]

I prefer them to be out as much as possible, but as long as he's out at least twice a day and not going nutty with the confinement, and has company around him when he's in, i think it's okay.
if i have one about to go to a big competition that i'm worried might do itself an injury, i make a very small pen with electric (sometimes not much bigger than a stable) with really lush grass in, and give them time in there. usually they're so pleased to see the grass that they just go into lawnmower mode.
however, i can understand you not wanting to risk him injuring himself again. i think i'd let him graze in hand every day if at all possible though, as well as going on walker and being ridden.

 

[Donkeymad]

QR

Does stabling 24/7 not contravene the five freedoms?

"Freedom to express normal behaviour"

How can a horse express normal behaviour when it is stabled?

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

I prefer a horse to live out all year round personally, though this is not always possible, i have a chronic laminitic so i do know.

She gets a very small paddock just now, i much prefer her to be out then stuck inside.
If i had to keep her in, then i would, but only if needs must, my mare is a star and will adjust to any new routine with ease, but i know she needs to get out and have a good buck and a fart around the field, just as we all need to let off steam

 

[Ziggy_]

I bought my mare from a yard where there was no turnout and kept her there as a livery for six months. I also worked at the yard so could watch the horses all day. Some seemed to cope, some didn't. One was a dreadful weaver, a few got agressive and snapped at people/other horses over the door, some head nodded/bobbed, one ate her entire stable door and would grind his teeth on the door for hours. In contrast mine seemed to cope very well; she had no vices, was calm in the stable and seemed happy to stand around and eat all day. She was a menace to handle and to ride, but thats another story!

Eventually I moved her to a place where she would live out over the summer, and be stabled overnight in winter. Immediately I noticed she was happier out than in, and became easier to handle as the other horses helped to keep her in line. However it wasn't until it was time to bring the horses in overnight for the winter that I realised how much of a toll her previous confinement had taken on her mentally.

She can no longer cope with being stabled. She doesn't settle in the stable, she stresses, sweats up and loses her appetite. She has to be the last one in and the first one out, and the first few nights she stood in the stable shaking. She did slowly calm down but she never truely settled and came out of this winter looking awful. It could be coincidence but I now think that being shut in a stable long term has done her lasting damage mentally. Like a horse that has been over jumped and eventually just said 'no more', she can't tolerate being stabled any more.

I will never keep a horse like that again, whether they seem to cope at the time or not. Some of the other replies on this thread will hopefully give you some other options, whether its individual turnout, grazing in hand, or whatever, but please don't keep him stabled for the rest of his life.

 

[Caritas]

Yes i agree alsxx but I can guarantee that when my horse is turned out again, he will spin on that leg and it will be the first day or within a few weeks before he injures himself.

 

[kerilli]

Ziggy_ , i had a mare who was kept at full livery for a winter with no turnout, in an internal stable facing a wall, she seemed to cope fine too at the time, but ever after was very claustrophobic, couldn't wait to get out, would stand at the stable door 'begging' to be let out and drag me to the field, and relax the moment she got outside.
however, with a horse like Kaismom's, i'd probably try to protect it, but i'd make sure the stable was big with a nice view of lots going on, views of other horses, etc etc.

 

[Spyda]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, really bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering....

[/ QUOTE ]

This would have been caused by inappropriate management at some point in the horses life, and locking it in a stable for convenience sake is only reinforcing that mismanagement. The way to deal with a horse that wont be caught, it a heck of a lot of time and patience. There are enough people who get practically wild ponies off dartmoor etc from the sales and then manage to get them perfectly accustomed to being caught.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and plenty that can't!

 

[somethingorother]

But what i'm trying to say is if you approach it in the right way, which is different for different horses, it can be done. Locking them in a stable will only make it worse, as posters since have pointed out. They may seem fine at the time but then it become apparent later on that they weren't happy. A good saying i think is that you can't fail if you don't give up. There is no such thing as a horse that can't be caught, only one that needs more time or a different approach.

Either way i know most people will just look for conformation of what they want to hear but at least a LOT of useful information has come up in this thread on the damages of permanent stabling and many suggestions to alternatives. It's up to the OP now to make an informed decision and take the responsibility of whatever that decision is.

 

[Tiffany]

Your horse probably gets injured because he's not going out on a regular basis. I think when horses go out, even for short periods on a daily/regular basis they calm down and it just becomes part of their routine. Think about it if your were grounded 24/7 for a few weeks I'm sure you would behave differently when you did finally go out - wouldn't you? I know I would

 

[SO1]

How old is your horse has he always been like this or was there a time before his first injury where he had turn out without a problem.

I presume he must have had some turnout as a youngster and managed to be ok. Maybe it is a case of not being at the right sort of yard - is he turned out on his own or with others. Maybe he could be turned out with a quiet companion like a shetland which would be less exciting for him. Does his field have plenty of grass? Perhaps if you turned him out when he was hungry he would settle and eat. Normally if a horse has been on box rest for a long time when you do start to turnout for the first time you sedate them a little so they do not get over excited and overdo it.

I think it is a shame especially on a lovely sunny day if your horse does not get a chance to be outside and relax with other horses.

My pony refuses to stable so being out is very important to him so I have no option but to keep him out 24/7. Is your horse truely happy being in - he may seem fine when you are with him as he has company and is occupied but what is he like when you are gone.

If you really don't want to turn him out then I would least try and take him out for a couple of hours to hand graze so he can get some grass.

 

[Ezme]

QR, A riding school I know has v limited turnout over winter which I think is saved for the liveries so the school horses are turned out in a opensided barn with their herd group for at least a few hours a day. The horses enjoy the socilisation, they get some fresh air, can walkabout without being about to totally loon. Perhaps this could be a option, section off part of a barn, perhaps with a friend.

I don't like horses being in excessivly but I accept it as a nesscerary evil or various horses

 

[henryhorn]

I have to say I can't understand why you feel you have to stable him permanently, with boots/bandages and a properly fenced paddock he should be able to go out and have some freedom.
Can you imagine being a horse and never feeling the sun on your back, the wind in your mane etc when lying down in sweet grass?
I can only speak for the way our horses live here, they all get turnout even the stallion, and whenever any have to go away to yards for comps or training they invariably get no turnout or very little. Upon their return you can see by the way they behave when out the first time how pleased they are, their body language is so obviously delighted.
I'm afraid if youy want to keep your horse stabled and just exercised for your own convenience I feel it's incredibly selfish of you; they aren't made to live inside on their own but to integrate into small groups and have friends and a certain amount of freedom of choice, even if it's just which patch of grass to graze or lie on.
I wish I could have written a nicer post suporting you but we keep horses here under varying conditions, from likely laminitics, retired horses , youngsters to fit comp horses, and their quality of life is the first thing we look at even above their competition success.
Try hard to put yourself in your horse's shoes, would you want his life?
I'll tell you what, I'll lock you in your bathroom for 22 hours every day for a month, feed you of course and allow you out to the gym every day, and you can look out of the window when you like too..
Still think it's a fair life?
No, I guessed perhaps you wouldn't fancy it...

 

[amandaco2]

i think its unnatural and probably not very good for their muscles,tendons,hooves etc.
they are made to have their heads down grazing stretching their topline and walking foraging all day.
standing in a dusty(even the best hay/bedding will create dust) stable 24/7 is the exact opposite.
my older mare has been on box rest 3 times in her life and hated every moment.she was fine manners wise but once she was out the stable she was a nutter!
normally she is quite content in the stable on a normal routine of out in the day but if she is kept in she gets very stressed and tends to get sore muscles from pacing.

i would rather have them out as much as possible.
i would only keep in 24/7 for a medical reason, not due to convenience or worrying about injury.they are far more likely to be injured going out once in a blue moon and going completely nuts.
its their relaxation time.i know mine LOVE to graze.
i was at a yard once where the horses were kept in 24/7 beacuse they couldnt cut themselves(show horses). the YOs yearlings were so so silly it was unbelievable.she could hardy lead them and they would canter round their 12x10 stables.so then they had to wear leg protection in the stable!
im sure they would be much happier out in a 4 acre field blasting round and developing properly....

 

[annret]

I think that perhaps routine is as important, if not more so, than large amounts of turnout.

My yard has great facilities but limited turnout & when I was fully in charge of my horse, I saw that she had several hours daily in spring/autumn/winter & turnout overnight in summer and in during the day.

However, since i've been away, she's been turned out 3 times a week - this upset me massively at first - but as she has no stable vices, doesn't seem unhappy. She is very sweet to handle - moreso than when she had overnight turnout, actually - and has been very very well behaved recently which is a very nice thing to hear as I know she'd been naughty before I went back at easter.

Our other horse, the gelding, has been a sod, frankly, since he's moved yards - he's gone from 24 hour T/O (brought in on v cold nights) to mainly being stabled & I don't trust him as far as I can throw him because he's just so big & quite silly & has very poor spatial awareness. In a way, it's been nice to illustrate that my girl is actually a poppet as she is much more innocent in her naughtiness than he is.

As she's always glad to come in, I'm now much happier with this situation than I first envisaged & would suggest that it's probably how she was kept in Germany.

 

[daisybe33]

I think you know best. We had a mare on our yard that hated being out and ran up and down the fence from the minute you turned her out to the minute you brought her in and was always sound due to spinning back around at the end of the fence. She was turned out all day with other horses and only in at night, then she tried turning her out for short periods but she hated it and in the end was stabled, exercised evry day and stayed sound and quite happy so if it works for you and yours .......

Good luck x

 

[Arabelle]

Stables horses in general have shorter lives and are more prone to colic/ulcers etc. Says it all really...

For me, the essentials for a horse are freedom to roam; companionship of other horses; water; food; shelter. I think a horse would probably rank them in about that order of importance.
A

 

[M_G]

If the horse is not stressed by being in 24/7 not a problem..

 

[misst]

QR I know some people have very strong views on this but I do think each horse and each owner and each yard are individual.

Provided there is sufficient excercise/grazing in hand/horsewalker etc and the horse has lots of one on one attention it may be fine.

Having had a TB that was a real self harmer even in a small paddock with individual turnout I have every sympathy with the OP.

No real answer but I think sometimes people have quite extreme views that are totally inflexible. The OP is asking for opinion not saying this is what she will always do for ever.

Ideally all horses should have all day or 24 hour turnout 365 days per year but sometimes we have to compromise and it is how we manage this that makes the difference.

 

[lexiedhb]

QR- I personally would be looking at it from the other way and be thinking of ways to keep said horse OUT 24/7, if he's that exciteable about being turned out perhaps leaving him out would remove that excitement.

I also agree that ridden work, horse walker isnt really a substitute for the freedom that turn out gives horses, but I have also seen horses with little or no turn out seemingly happy!