Horse still bucking WWYD?

Spoke to owner, gave opinion and a more detailed overview of conversation with vet today (earlier was just a quick check-in to confirm vet visit done and important points as they were at work). Looks like they are phoning current vets tomorrow and telling them, thanks but no thanks (yay!). Then contacting referral vets and asking them to investigate the bone scan indication in the spine, if they even get a whiff of these vets back-tracking or supporting soon to fired vets, they will then get a second opinion.

So hopefully this horse will be getting spinal x-rays within a few weeks and won't be ridden in interim! :)
 
Last edited:
Goldenstar said:
Result OP .
Good for you for hanging in there many would not have bothered .
Click to expand...

Thanks, there were times when I was literally 'hanging in there'! IMO, a calm, sensible horse with manners to burn on the ground does not react/buck/rear that violently under saddle without a good reason. I'm glad this bute trial is over and x-rays are definitely next. However, I will be gutted for horse and owner if x-rays show nothing.

It's awful to hope a horse has something physically wrong.
 
Good news in the end then, I wouldn't persist with current vets either and the bone scan vets already have some info and clearly think there is something there to work up a bit. It would be interesting to hear any final diagnosis if you don't mind updating.
 
ester said:
Good news in the end then, I wouldn't persist with current vets either and the bone scan vets already have some info and clearly think there is something there to work up a bit. It would be interesting to hear any final diagnosis if you don't mind updating.
Click to expand...

No probs, updates will be coming when I have anything further. It's been lovely to have all the moral support in a situation I'm involved in but at the same time is out of my hands.

So a big thank you to everyone and I hope final update is about a happy ending. :)
 
What is this vet on?

After yesterday (to me) dismissing any physical pain, they've done everything they could, only option is to send to Newmarket for vastly expensive and probably not worth it diagnostics, then they called and said the same to Owner today. Owner disagreed MRI etc needed at this point and mentioned spinal x-rays....... Vet said oh, yes that would be suitable in this case, can do them here for you!

How unbelievable is that???!!!!

Owner replied, Errrr, no, I'll be taking horse elsewhere thanks very much. Good on them!!
 
Illusion100 said:
Horse purchased and the moment a rider sat on back, would buck until rider dumped.

Horse sent to Trainer and was sent back recently deemed suitable for Novice riders and without any issues.

Trainer came to give lesson 3 days after horse home and horse, as soon as rider/owner got on, bucked until rider was dumped on ground for no apparent reason. (Horse was ridden day after coming home by owner and did not buck)

A more experienced rider got on horse, moment asked to walk on horse spun 180 and legged it up arena.

Trainer said can't believe horse bucked first rider off, but they have the other rider to ride horse for them, left yard and cashed the cheques paid by client.

Horse owner has fractured vertebrae and very distressed.

Advice please!
Click to expand...

in my opinion they dont sound very experienced. get the vet out
 
Well you could not make it up could you OP.
It's not nice to say but I really really hope the X-rays fine something and I am very glad the owner is going back to the vets that did the bone scan .
I really hope you get an answer for the horses sake .
 
Goldenstar said:
Well you could not make it up could you OP.
It's not nice to say but I really really hope the X-rays fine something and I am very glad the owner is going back to the vets that did the bone scan .
I really hope you get an answer for the horses sake .
Click to expand...

I wish I was making it up.... The whole situation re: vet has been a dangerous joke, and a p*ss poor one at that!

Owner got in contact with an old friend whose horse was diagnosed with KS at referral vets. Owner calling them back to ask for same vet to examine this horse. I too, in the wish I didn't have to way, hope they find something wrong.

Vet (sacked one) said just to sell the horse how it is to a Hunting Yard as problem behavioural and would do horse world of good. Owner called bluff and said they would if Vet would sign document horse physically sound and bucking etc 'just behavioural'. Guess what...........Vet back-tracked! Complete Farce!
 
Update:

Horse underwent diagnostics today.

Lameness workup and spinal x-rays. Both hocks to be treated in 3 weeks as horse failed those on flexion. Narrowing of the lumbar spine but no KS or anything significant to report.

Vet feels the horse has niggling but not significant pain issues and needs to be put in work and ridden through the anxiety and potential bucking episodes. Feels if horse is fit, muscled and active the issues it has will become manageable for the horse to cope with.

Horse will now spend next 3 weeks being put into decent work, lunging and under saddle, until it is re-examined and has hocks treated in 3 weeks time.

Vet recommends an active home with a more experienced rider/owner. Owner quite devastated but wants a happy future for horse. A potential new owner is already on the cards.
 
if there is a narrowing of the lumber spine I would look at getting a smaller saddle, if they can be ridden in a 17 or 16 1/2 " saddle so it takes pressure off that area. We have just changed our tb to a 16 1/2 " as his shoulder motion pushes saddles back when ridden to his other saddle was sitting right on his last rib.

glad there is no KS but does the narrowing need to be kept an eye on?

were his hock xrayed?

glad you now have answers.
 
Slightlyconfused said:
if there is a narrowing of the lumber spine I would look at getting a smaller saddle, if they can be ridden in a 17 or 16 1/2 " saddle so it takes pressure off that area. We have just changed our tb to a 16 1/2 " as his shoulder motion pushes saddles back when ridden to his other saddle was sitting right on his last rib.

glad there is no KS but does the narrowing need to be kept an eye on?

were his hock xrayed?

glad you now have answers.
Click to expand...

Just texted owner to ask if they x-rayed hocks, I think they nerve blocked at least. Saddler out again last week, saddle fine according to them. The narrowing, I believe Vet explained, is between the vertebrae and possibly pinching the relevant ligaments, however in their opinion is not enough to cause bucking.

TBH, at this point, I feel the only help I can give is to assist with fittening/muscling horse and helping find a new home with full disclosure.
 
I'd be dubious about any amount of pain not being enough to cause bucking.

I had a connemara who's back was absolutly fine, however he started rearing, bucking and plunging. My first port of call was vet who said nothing wrong with him, EDt checked his teeth but nothing wrong there. Saddler came up looked at saddle and said it possibly needed the tiniest amount of flocking and normaly he wouldnt bother as there wasnt enough to warent it under normal circumstances, I asked him to do it anyway as at the end of my teather and lo and behold behavior stopped instantly!
Saddler said he had never in 30+ years of making and fitting saddles had he ever seen such a reaction to such a miniscule change!
 
Yep, hocks x-rayed with small areas of change.

conniegirl, it's not my horse nor my place to question the Owners decisions. All I can do is help and offer opinion if I'm asked for it.

However, well done for being so astute and solving your boys issues. Credit to you.
 
These vets really bug me! The horse is lame in both hocks, but not enough to cause bucking. How do they know it's not enough to cause bucking? My friends had a horse with hock changes and it reared sky high every time it was mounted. Have they checked for PSD, which is often found with hock bone changes and often causes behaviour problems too? I know it had a scintigraph, but the changes in PSD can, I understand, become mechanical and not inflammatory and they wouldn't then show on a scintigraph.

Thanks for updating us I100. All you can do now is stand back and let the owners sell it to someone else to try and ride the horse through its issues. Lets just hope for the horse's sake that the vet is right about most of it being in its head, otherwise it's in for a life of constant pain.
 
cptrayes said:
These vets really bug me! The horse is lame in both hocks, but not enough to cause bucking. How do they know it's not enough to cause bucking? My friends had a horse with hock changes and it reared sky high every time it was mounted. Have they checked for PSD, which is often found with hock bone changes and often causes behaviour problems too? I know it had a scintigraph, but the changes in PSD can, I understand, become mechanical and not inflammatory and they wouldn't then show on a scintigraph.

Thanks for updating us I100. All you can do now is stand back and let the owners sell it to someone else to try and ride the horse through its issues. Lets just hope for the horse's sake that the vet is right about most of it being in its head, otherwise it's in for a life of constant pain.
Click to expand...

Hiya, I wasn't there today with horse as I am pretty poorly atm. I just got a phonecall from very emotional owner and didn't really want to press them asking exactly what vet had done.

Hopefully if I feel well enough I will be heading up to see my lad tomorrow (other lovely liverys checking him over in meantime!), will hopefully see owner and chat in more detail.

I was sure this horse had an issue with it's withers but x-rays are negative. X-rays picked up narrowing on lumbar area that Physio and thermo-imaging also picked up on but nothing significant according to vet opinion.

Not sure why hocks not treated today. They want the horse worked on bute for next 3 weeks before injecting them.

I just don't know what to think anymore as horse is lovely person and I can't do a thing to make it right for it.
 
Illusion100 said:
At this stage in time, no, I'm too poorly to ride any horse.
Click to expand...

Although I wouldn't wish illness on you, I'm pleased to hear that, iyswim.

I simply cannot understand how the vet can say that the pain isn't enough to make the horse behave as he is doing!
I have had enough horses to know that they all react differently to pain and would expect an experienced vet to have seen far more horses in pain than I have.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Although I wouldn't wish illness on you, I'm pleased to hear that, iyswim.

I simply cannot understand how the vet can say that the pain isn't enough to make the horse behave as he is doing!
I have had enough horses to know that they all react differently to pain and would expect an experienced vet to have seen far more horses in pain than I have.
Click to expand...

iyswim? What does that stand for *feels stupid*!! lol!

This latest advice/opinion came from a referral vet practice that maintains a high reputation. Just don't know what to think anymore.
 
If you see what I mean - sorry, it is very annoying when people use abbreviations that aren't obvious.

I know this advice was from the referral vet, I just don't understand how they can know how much pain an individual horse can put up with, or how they will express that pain.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Although I wouldn't wish illness on you, I'm pleased to hear that, iyswim.

I simply cannot understand how the vet can say that the pain isn't enough to make the horse behave as he is doing!
I have had enough horses to know that they all react differently to pain and would expect an experienced vet to have seen far more horses in pain than I have.
Click to expand...

It amazes me that so called experienced equine vets, who are supposed to be intelligent, can make such sweeping generalisations, to state that the pain isn't enough when they really cannot guess what is going on with the horses brain when it feels and reacts to the pain.
They do all react differently, that is why the vets need to listen to the owners more carefully, the owners are the ones that deal with the horse and often sense when a horse is not right, this horse is either in real pain or has become so sensitive that he reacts just in case it may hurt, either way it is still real to him, if he has been carrying a hock issue for some time there will be other areas effected and they may also hurt, maybe not much but to him it all adds up to being too much to cope with.

I hope he can be helped but fear that his reaction may take longer to go than the actual pain he is running from, he is still young enough to come through it if he is given plenty of time.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
If you see what I mean - sorry, it is very annoying when people use abbreviations that aren't obvious.

I know this advice was from the referral vet, I just don't understand how they can know how much pain an individual horse can put up with, or how they will express that pain.
Click to expand...

It's more likely I'm just not on the ball with abbreviations, thanks for explaining!

I agree with you, each horse is different in coping with and expressing pain and it can't necessarily be quantified by a vet opinion.
 
be positive said:
It amazes me that so called experienced equine vets, who are supposed to be intelligent, can make such sweeping generalisations, to state that the pain isn't enough when they really cannot guess what is going on with the horses brain when it feels and reacts to the pain.
They do all react differently, that is why the vets need to listen to the owners more carefully, the owners are the ones that deal with the horse and often sense when a horse is not right, this horse is either in real pain or has become so sensitive that he reacts just in case it may hurt, either way it is still real to him, if he has been carrying a hock issue for some time there will be other areas effected and they may also hurt, maybe not much but to him it all adds up to being too much to cope with.

I hope he can be helped but fear that his reaction may take longer to go than the actual pain he is running from, he is still young enough to come through it if he is given plenty of time.
Click to expand...

Do not disagree with anything in your comment. Horse is 7 yr old, has been re-backed at least twice, still unhappy under saddle, imo.

Not sure what is best for this horse.
 
Has the horse been scoped for gastrointestinal ulcers? They can cause significant behavioural changes such as bucking, rearing and anxiety related behaviours that may masquerade as a musculo-skeletal issue...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top