Horses Ability to Hear Human Heart Rates

[Kat]

I agree with this and would add that does anyone think that their horses react to what the the rider sees, for example, I was riding quietly down the hill on a very relaxed horse when my companion pointed out some cattle galloping down a bank on the other side of the valley.the moment I looked at them my boy tensed up and then looked across as if searching for danger.

Definitely!

When I started hacking L out as a 4 year old my husband told me to look at spooky stuff and acknowledge that it was there then look away and concentrate on where we were going. It worked a treat and still does, I think if you stare at stuff it makes them suspicious but if you ignore it they worry that you haven't seen the danger.

 

[scats]

Interesting and no doubt very true.

It does make me wonder if the expression ‘electric backside’ that is often used to describe riders who seem to wind anything up that they sit on, is actually a reflection of that riders heart rate. Perhaps ‘speedy ticker’ would be a more appropriate nickname!

 

[Regandal]

That is very interesting. I’m sure that I read that horses also smell adrenaline from humans, which can hype them up too.

 

[LEC]

That is very interesting. I’m sure that I read that horses also smell adrenaline from humans, which can hype them up too.

my thinking on horses senses actually changed watching that blind horse Enzo. His sense of hearing and smell really come out and then you realise how superior horses are in this ability. He will spook at objects on an arena. We base too much of how we view things on our view of the world but horses have 180 eyesight, phenomenal hearing and a tremendous sense of smell.

 

[J&S]

In times gone by the old horsemen/nagsmen/breakers used to use a potion on their hands to hide the smell of their "fear" from the horse. Both the horses that I ride regularly are pretty bomb proof on the road but both of them react to odd aromas and will sniff their way down the road for a few metres, necks arched and bodies tensed.
I think the old addage that if a horse can feel a fly landing on their protective hairy coats then all other sensations must be felt to a very high degree. We spend time desensitising them from stuff we think will frighten them but they must have to learn to ignore so much more!!!

 

[Reacher]

*apologies for a fatuous comment*
No wonder they jump if you fart ?

Very interesting, I’ve no idea about my heart rate, not likely to buy a fit bit etc.
Also surely even if you dismount they will still be aware you feel anxious/ stressed ?

 

[milliepops]

Also surely even if you dismount they will still be aware you feel anxious/ stressed ?

not if removing yourself from the saddle takes the anxiety away
if I'm in a situation where I feel like the horse is going to explode, and I get off, then I have no concerns left- that's the reason for getting off. I know I've trained them well on the ground, they respond well "emotionally" to me on the ground, and the chances of it going wrong in a situation I have risk assessed like that is super low. no reason to be anxious then

 

[j1ffy]

I remember reading your article at the time and it made sense, though I didn't apply it consciously as I was mostly riding my Spanish horses, who I trust fully, and my ex-racehorse in HK who was mostly pretty lazy (although with the odd broncing session if it was cold).

With my loan horse, I have been much more aware of my own anxiety and how it flows through to him. He was very tense and anxious when I took him on a year ago and I've been careful to keep things within our comfort zone and only gradually push the boundaries when we are both relaxed. If I feel myself become anxious I stop - partly (mostly?) down to self-preservation and partly because I know he shuts down if he is worried or doesn't understand, and if you push further he will do a sharp spin.

I haven't had to stop / get off for a long time but out hacking on Sunday I did - a kid on a pony went from walk to flat-out gallop up a hill 20m in front of us and Danny's (and reliable Pocholo, who we were hacking with) heart rate shot up and I could feel he may escalate. I got anxious and felt it better to get off before finding myself in a situation neither of us could handle. I led him up the hill and it took a good few minutes for both horses to settle again.

Reading the article again reassures me that it was the right approach. We finished the hack relaxed and happy, and had a great time in the school a day later. The more I ride the less I feel there is a place for macho 'ride through it' behaviour, we need to focus on building the confidence of both horse and rider - obviously different people and equines will have different thresholds and we'll all be happier and safer if we recognise our own (and gradually extend those thresholds by building good experiences).

 

[Reacher]

not if removing yourself from the saddle takes the anxiety away
if I'm in a situation where I feel like the horse is going to explode, and I get off, then I have no concerns left- that's the reason for getting off. I know I've trained them well on the ground, they respond well "emotionally" to me on the ground, and the chances of it going wrong in a situation I have risk assessed like that is super low. no reason to be anxious then

I see in the situation where you are trying to teach a movement which is causing the horse anxiety that dismounting helps. I guess in my case it’s more in a case where an external factor is causing the horse stress and dismounting means I’m then trying to control an upset horse from the ground

 

[milliepops]

I see in the situation where you are trying to teach a movement which is causing the horse anxiety that dismounting helps. I guess in my case it’s more in a case where an external factor is causing the horse stress and dismounting means I’m then trying to control an upset horse from the ground

this is where it depends on the horse and rider really but actually it's entirely external issues that cause me to get off (in my post on page 1 the external thing is the instructions in my lesson but it might be a big lorry or a scary noise behind a hedge or whatever)

I generally don't get on my own horses until through groundwork/handling i feel like I'm in a good position on the ground to manage them if things go wrong. And all my weirdos seem to have an off-switch when they have a person with them on the ground that seems to re-set them if something external is kicking off.

 

[SEL]

That is very interesting. I’m sure that I read that horses also smell adrenaline from humans, which can hype them up too.

Having seen a mare completely take out a rider when she was surrounded by a lot of testosterone driven men (outback Australia, think the worst type.....) I suspect they can smell adrenaline and I'm pretty sure I could smell the testosterone when I grabbed her and took her away from the situation to stop her getting a thrashing. If I could smell it, then no wonder she panicked.

My Appy mare is nightblind and if she's uncertain of a situation after dark she will literally stick her nose into my armpit! And then follow me like that. Might not be able to see after dark but she can track down a feed bucket in the field without issue....

 

[j1ffy]

I think really good or natural rider-instructors probably struggle to understand the impact this can have because they possibly don't get the same heartbeat spikes from an event happening. I am quite quick to get off my horses if my spidey senses start tingling these days, I am long past the "just battle on" stage and find it all stays much more positive and constructive if I'm not in the saddle when things are going sideways. I'm Ok with that, I'm well practiced at hopping on and off and keeping everyone's adrenalin down and that being a quicker way to achieve what I want. like you say it also avoids the long term effect that a horse can have on your mindset and physiology.

I have recently had a bit of a battle with my trainer over my horse that we are trying to teach to passage. she has struggled with the concept hugely and her go-to when she is stressing is to rear. I hate that, I don't mind her little hops but when she starts to stand up, i get very unhappy. when he rode her, she did the same, and he just sat there calmly and waited for her to come back to earth and then off they went again. objectively I can see that she looks after her own balance but it's something I can't get past. he said it didn't occur to him that he might fall off. Once you've had the thought that something bad might happen it's impossible to unthink that, but if you're so secure in your riding that it simply never enters your head, i guess it's very easy to ride through something without making it worse.

I sense that I am a bit untrainable in this respect now... though we had a good chat and he acknowledged what he describes as my lack of confidence, (though I see more as a wise sense of self preservation!) we will work around it, but it's sort of looming in the background i think i am definitely adding to the problem now because I'm more than happy to ride her dicking about the way she does, until it's in a lesson situation where I am certain that a heart rate monitor on me would pick up the stress of it before we've even started. bit unsure how to progress that one at the mo.

Your story about your trainer is very similar to a ride I witnessed in Spain - I've just dug out the video (it was pure fluke that I filmed this - I wish I'd filmed his next attempt). The horse had been trained by my trainer, who recommended he be gelded but the owner wanted to keep him entire. A few near-disasters later he was gelded and back with the trainer, this was one of his first rides back on him and he asked for a few steps of piaffe:

While the horse was doing this, the trainer gave a running commentary to the owner - he said the horse was expecting to be told off so had the huge over-reaction. The trainer didn't react at all, he sat there then gave the horse a pat once it came back down to earth. He then went to the same spot, asked again, and got a lovely calm piaffe.

With a sensitive horse like this one you can see how a stressed and / or adrenalin-fuelled rider quickly leads to an escalation. I have seen the horse since and he's very calm and looks stunning - hopefully a lesson learned for the owner to geld if advised to, and don't over-horse yourself!

 

[milliepops]

While the horse was doing this, the trainer gave a running commentary to the owner - he said the horse was expecting to be told off so had the huge over-reaction. The trainer didn't react at all, he sat there then gave the horse a pat once it came back down to earth. He then went to the same spot, asked again, and got a lovely calm piaffe.

that complete certainty in yourself in a moment of crisis is kind of impossible to fake. I think its possible to do something that looks like it - remain calm, try to be effective, not over react and so on, but the sheer certainty that it's all groovy is a step further I think.

someone earlier said (from the way it was phrased I assume addressed to my story) that my trainer wasn't not afraid of falling, but able to prevent escalations -i think my experience and this video show that no, that's not the case, it DID escalate, but that it just de-escalated quite quickly. that's different, and I think that comes from the absence of "oh bugger" vibes going into the saddle!

 

[j1ffy]

that complete certainty in yourself in a moment of crisis is kind of impossible to fake. I think its possible to do something that looks like it - remain calm, try to be effective, not over react and so on, but the sheer certainty that it's all groovy is a step further I think.

someone earlier said (from the way it was phrased I assume addressed to my story) that my trainer wasn't not afraid of falling, but able to prevent escalations -i think my experience and this video show that no, that's not the case, it DID escalate, but that it just de-escalated quite quickly. that's different, and I think that comes from the absence of "oh bugger" vibes going into the saddle!

I absolutely agree - it's a step beyond remaining calm, it's also an experienced and confident trainer (both mentioned fall into that category) understanding where they are in a process and what to do next. Us mere mortals can just watch in awe and hope to benefit once they get off the horse!

 

[LEC]

that complete certainty in yourself in a moment of crisis is kind of impossible to fake. I think its possible to do something that looks like it - remain calm, try to be effective, not over react and so on, but the sheer certainty that it's all groovy is a step further I think.

someone earlier said (from the way it was phrased I assume addressed to my story) that my trainer wasn't not afraid of falling, but able to prevent escalations -i think my experience and this video show that no, that's not the case, it DID escalate, but that it just de-escalated quite quickly. that's different, and I think that comes from the absence of "oh bugger" vibes going into the saddle!

I think in your situation I would go round it in a completely different way. I would use essentially a version of clicker training to distract. I would look for something with more of a rattle though (maracas in my head but could be a jar with beads in) and reward the forwards on all 4 legs. So to train you would use upwards transitions - halt to walk to begin with rattle and reward. Then you can increase it. You have to go through this stage as she is clearly finding it hard to do what is required. All my mares btw have the same reaction if they don't understand or find it hard. I am not bothered by rearing so normally ride it out and kick them forwards. Its changing the trigger into something more positive and I find clicker training works an absolute treat in the right way. You will need someone sharp on the ground to help you firstly establish it and secondly when working towards passage.

 

[milliepops]

Which unfortunately makes it nigh on impossible as I'm on my own every day except for 45 mins once a fortnight ? we are applying a different tactic for now

 

[MummyEms]

I believe this 100%. I have bradycardia so my heart rate is between 40 and 50. I have always been able to settle and relax very hot horses. I (touch wood) never really have youngsters bucking or stressing when breaking. even if I'm feeling stress I can still calm them. If I'm going XC I have to drink a red bull to get my heart rate up to buzz some horses up a bit. I really struggle on cobs and Irish draughts though, or any colder blooded horses, I feel like I ride them really badly as I just can't seem to get a tune out of them at all!

I am EXACTLY the same!!! Very low heart rate also. Hate hate riding lazy horses and hot horses listen to me more than most other riders. How funny!