Horses for Meat

pastie2 said:
Do you not think that there are many farmers looking after their cattle and sheep in the same way as JG. I can assure you that there are many, when the market goes down so does the income for these farmers, they just cannot afford to feed them. Anyway would you really like to be in the countryside with field after field of farmed horses. Cattle are looked after in a completely differant way than horses. Would you really like a farmer next to your land breeding for meat. Blimeythere is enough of a fuss on here if someone sees a horse with the wrong bloody rug on in a field!!!
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Horse ARE domesticated cattle. They eat out of a rubber trug because we've taught them to. Most would prefer to eat off the floor.

Cattle and horses (as a herd) can be cared for in the same way. Mass vaccination, barn kept, grazed en masse in the spring and summer.

It is us humans who have caused them to get 'vices' and to feel the cold. The way we have bred and reared them.

They'd be just as happy stood fetlock deep in mud, wooly coated, munching on a huge bale of hay than wrapped up like turkeys stood in a stable on their own.

I wouldn't give a monkeys if the farmer decided to breed horses for meat. So long as they were cared for. I'd rather see that than someone unknowledgeable buying foals and giving them such a bad start to life that they'll be passed pillar to post....
 
itsme123 said:
Horse ARE domesticated cattle. They eat out of a rubber trug because we've taught them to. Most would prefer to eat off the floor.

Cattle and horses (as a herd) can be cared for in the same way. Mass vaccination, barn kept, grazed en masse in the spring and summer.

It is us humans who have caused them to get 'vices' and to feel the cold. The way we have bred and reared them.

They'd be just as happy stood fetlock deep in mud, wooly coated, munching on a huge bale of hay than wrapped up like turkeys stood in a stable on their own.

I wouldn't give a monkeys if the farmer decided to breed horses for meat. So long as they were cared for. I'd rather see that than someone unknowledgeable buying foals and giving them such a bad start to life that they'll be passed pillar to post....
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Very well put
 
itsme123 said:
Horse ARE domesticated cattle. They eat out of a rubber trug because we've taught them to. Most would prefer to eat off the floor.

Cattle and horses (as a herd) can be cared for in the same way. Mass vaccination, barn kept, grazed en masse in the spring and summer.

It is us humans who have caused them to get 'vices' and to feel the cold. The way we have bred and reared them.

They'd be just as happy stood fetlock deep in mud, wooly coated, munching on a huge bale of hay than wrapped up like turkeys stood in a stable on their own.

I wouldn't give a monkeys if the farmer decided to breed horses for meat. So long as they were cared for. I'd rather see that than someone unknowledgeable buying foals and giving them such a bad start to life that they'll be passed pillar to post....
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well said.

Sadly they aren't classed the same as cattle, so dont have the same welfare regs to be adhered to.
Neither are they classed as domestic animals, so those regs are ignored too.

If horses and ponies were to be classed as meat animals/livestock in this country, they would certainly have a better life in some situations.
Jamie Grey just wouldn't have been able to keep his "livestock" in such conditions if horses were classed as farm animals.
 
fumanchu said:
well said.

Sadly they aren't classed the same as cattle, so dont have the same welfare regs to be adhered to.
Neither are they classed as domestic animals, so those regs are ignored too.

If horses and ponies were to be classed as meat animals/livestock in this country, they would certainly have a better life in some situations.
Jamie Grey just wouldn't have been able to keep his "livestock" in such conditions if horses were classed as farm animals.
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A valid point
 
I am sorry to disagree with you, I live in a farming area, some farmers are good some are not. Without the rose specs on, I see cattle treated apallingly. Dairy cows that are so lame they can barely walk, up to their knees in slurry all winter, bad quality hay/silage. Feet should be looked after in cows just as they should in horses. They are not normally, just put through a formaldahyde(sp) foot bath every now an then. To say that horses are the same as cattle is like comparing dogs with cats. Bovines do not have the same relationships with people, even pet ones. Bovines are transported to market in packed out wagons and treated with little or no respect when they get to market and abbatoir. There are good farmers whose cattle live like racehorses, but lets look at the worst case scenario, the farmers who would not treat these animals with the respect they deserve. Cattle generally are placid, horses on the other hand tend to panic, do you think that as meat animals and unhandled would have an easy time of it? Lets not compare it to the poor foal, horse bought at a market by unknowledgable people, that will always happen and its dreadfull. Why should we introduce another welfare issue into this equine world?
 
pastie2 said:
I am sorry to disagree with you, I live in a farming area, some farmers are good some are not. Without the rose specs on, I see cattle treated apallingly. Dairy cows that are so lame they can barely walk, up to their knees in slurry all winter, bad quality hay/silage. Feet should be looked after in cows just as they should in horses. They are not normally, just put through a formaldahyde(sp) foot bath every now an then. To say that horses are the same as cattle is like comparing dogs with cats. Bovines do not have the same relationships with people, even pet ones. Bovines are transported to market in packed out wagons and treated with little or no respect when they get to market and abbatoir. There are good farmers whose cattle live like racehorses, but lets look at the worst case scenario, the farmers who would not treat these animals with the respect they deserve. Cattle generally are placid, horses on the other hand tend to panic, do you think that as meat animals and unhandled would have an easy time of it? Lets not compare it to the poor foal, horse bought at a market by unknowledgable people, that will always happen and its dreadfull. Why should we introduce another welfare issue into this equine world?
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Farming in my area is very good and being a farmers son we have always looked after our animals well - after all they are an investment and therfore should be looked after and also because it is humane.

Don't forget that one of the reasons you see good competition horses in the continent is that they tend to separate the wheat from the chaff - eating the chaff and competing the wheat.

Welfare would definitely improve and not deteriorate as you suggest, things would be more regulated for a start.
 
As you are a farmers son, in Yorkshire so a profitable and good area for farming, you will have little idea about LFA. That is the area I live in, farmers are struggling with their dairy herds and health is compromised. If they did find themselves diversifying into horse meat, I can asure you that the same welfare they have for cattle would be continued into horses. I dont like seeing this in cattle and I am sure I would be equally upset with horses. Please take off your specs rose coloured, Yorkshire is a completely differant kettle of fish to the farming practices in rural Cumbria.
 
pastie2 said:
As you are a farmers son, in Yorkshire so a profitable and good area for farming, you will have little idea about LFA. That is the area I live in, farmers are struggling with their dairy herds and health is compromised. If they did find themselves diversifying into horse meat, I can asure you that the same welfare they have for cattle would be continued into horses. I dont like seeing this in cattle and I am sure I would be equally upset with horses. Please take off your specs rose coloured, Yorkshire is a completely differant kettle of fish to the farming practices in rural Cumbria.
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By the way we are not dairy farmers. Although I am a farmers son that is not my profession I see many farms when I travel throughout the UK and abroad with my work.

On this post you are accused me of several things so far including being a horse meat dealer, living an easy life in Yorkshire and wearing rose tinted specs - I can assure you I live in the 'real' world unlike some I could mention. I could say to you please remove your head from up your ....... - but I'm too polite.
 
Blacklist said:
I am probably opening a LARGE CAN OF WORMS, here goes:

What does the forum think on the subject of eating horses. If a horse has had a good life and is humanely slaughtered here in UK then exported for meat to the Continent - why is the right/wrong? and why don't we eat horseflesh here in the UK. Is is not really any different to an agricultural meat animal - except we ride them.
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I dont have a problem with eating any animal as long as its cared for properly throughout its life and given a quick and humane slaughter
 
Spudlet said:
Pastie, you can't generalise for the entire country from your one small area.:confused:
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No Spudlet I am not generalising, Cumbria is a rather large county, not as you say a small area. The farmers that are struggling to earn a living are most likely to diversify into such as horse meat production. As far as I know farming is still productive in Yorkshire, so the need to diversify will be a bonus rather than a need. If the government handed out subsidies for horse farming I can assure you that a lot of farmers in Cumbria will jump on the band wagon. With little or no knowledge of horses.
 
Who on earth said anything about subsidies? Do you really think a government department that has to make £160 MILLION of cost savings just for starters is likely to start handing out extra subsidies??????
 
Blacklist said:
By the way we are not dairy farmers. Although I am a farmers son that is not my profession I see many farms when I travel throughout the UK and abroad with my work.

On this post you are accused me of several things so far including being a horse meat dealer, living an easy life in Yorkshire and wearing rose tinted specs - I can assure you I live in the 'real' world unlike some I could mention. I could say to you please remove your head from up your ....... - but I'm too polite.
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You started a thread that was going to be emotive, as I seem to be the only one that has questioned your post you seem to have a problem with me. I have the same right as anyone else on this forum to air my thoughts. As for being too polite, I think you have been quite clear about how you feel about me! Thank you.
 
Spudlet said:
Who on earth said anything about subsidies? Do you really think a government department that has to make £160 MILLION of cost savings just for starters is likely to start handing out extra subsidies??????
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Do you even have a clue about farming? Look it up. LFA areas have government help, be it sheep, cattle what ever.
 
pastie2 said:
You started a thread that was going to be emotive, as I seem to be the only one that has questioned your post you seem to have a problem with me. I have the same right as anyone else on this forum to air my thoughts. As for being too polite, I think you have been quite clear about how you feel about me! Thank you.
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With respect it is a valid post and there have been some informed responses for and against 'Horses for Meat'

You are the one who has attacked me personally on various occasion.
 
Blacklist said:
With respect it is a valid post and there have been some informed responses for and against 'Horses for Meat'

You are the one who has attacked me personally on various occasion.
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sorry!xxx It is just discussion and I didnt mean to be rude! I just find the subject matter a bit alarming. xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
pastie2 said:
Do you even have a clue about farming? Look it up. LFA areas have government help, be it sheep, cattle what ever.
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You are so unbelievably rude and unpleasant! And then you go around acting like a victim - I've never seen you add anything of value to a thread, it's all argument and vitriole with you. Why are you so bitter?

You assume that help will remain in place - do you ever switch the news on? The government has to make savings of £100 billion. Do you honestly think subsidies will be immune?
 
pastie2 said:
You started a thread that was going to be emotive, as I seem to be the only one that has questioned your post you seem to have a problem with me. I have the same right as anyone else on this forum to air my thoughts. As for being too polite, I think you have been quite clear about how you feel about me! Thank you.
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To add:

Incidentally in my post I was looking at the whole picture the UNITED KINGDOM not just Cumbria.

I have horses in my blood there breeding, care and attention - In my thirty odd years on this earth I have delivered numerous foals which has been a privilege been involved in the difficult sad task of letting a horse go when the time came. On the flip side I have witnessed horrible cruelty some intentional some not on horses which if they had gone to Potters or Turners from their original homes would NOT have suffered their various indignities.
 
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my goodness - I popped away for a few days and totally have lost the plot of this thread... handbags anyone??!?!?!?

*runs and hides!!!!*
 
Spudlet said:
You are so unbelievably rude and unpleasant! And then you go around acting like a victim - I've never seen you add anything of value to a thread, it's all argument and vitriole with you. Why are you so bitter?

You assume that help will remain in place - do you ever switch the news on? The government has to make savings of £100 billion. Do you honestly think subsidies will be immune?
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to stick my oar in, can we NOT get onto the subject of subsidies- thank you!
 
Spudlet said:
You are so unbelievably rude and unpleasant! And then you go around acting like a victim - I've never seen you add anything of value to a thread, it's all argument and vitriole with you. Why are you so bitter?

You assume that help will remain in place - do you ever switch the news on? The government has to make savings of £100 billion. Do you honestly think subsidies will be immune?
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What a horrid reponse, Spudet I think that you should look through some of my posts in more detail. Who do you think you are? Quite clearly we have little in common with each other, so please dont reply to my posts and I shall resist the urge to reply to yours. It is a forum and I am entitled to answer how I please. Thank you. And Goodbye Spud.
 
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