Horses that fail the vet

[HelenBack]

What happens to horses that fail the vet?

I had one fail the other week as he was a bit lame in both front feet on the lunge. He had rubbish feet so there was a chance that sorting them out might resolve the issue but the vet couldn't guarantee that and so obviously I walked away.

The seller seemed totally unconcerned and was off to contact someone else who had expressed an interest to see if they still wanted to come and see the horse. I suspect they might have omitted to mention the failed vetting, or at least been very economical with the truth if they did say anything. She clearly had no interest in trying to fix the problem herself.

It got me thinking afterwards that at best an unsuspecting buyer is probably going to end up with a lame horse and an unexpected vet bill. At worst the poor horse is probably going to passed from one owner to the next as person after person discovers he's not what they wanted and they're not prepared to try and sort him out. He wasn't the best horse but he had a lovely personality and didn't deserve that, not that any of them do.

So it just got me wondering, what happens to all the poor horses that fail the vet and their owners can't be arsed to try and sort them out? Do they just get sold under false pretences to some poor unsuspecting person or do the owners do an honest ad in an attempt to at least do a good thing for the horse? Or is it best if I go back in my bubble and don't think about it?

If I had my own land I'd probably have offered peanuts for him and just taken his shoes off and chucked him in the field. I'm not in the position to do that though and I'd probably end up with a broken animal sanctuary if I was.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I’ve sold 3 ponies who failed the vet. 1 was totally fine - ridiculous fail - and was resold with a new vetting. 1 was sorted out and sold with disclosure. 1 was retired and then gifted to Theresa W after she loaned him as a companion for 2 years. Im in touch with all 3 still. In fact the 2nd one comes to my camps each year!

 

[AmyMay]

Depends on what the fail is. What one vet fails, another may pass.

 

[HelenBack]

Sounds like you're an honest person who tries to do right by your horses then. Maybe there are more people like you around and my faith in humanity can be restored.

 

[HelenBack]

Depends on what the fail is. What one vet fails, another may pass.

True, but if it's actually lame surely no vet would pass it and he told her and she just didn't care! I only wanted it for pleasure riding as well, it wasn't like it needed to be sound enough for high level eventing or anything.

 

[BronsonNutter]

I'm a vet and probably do ~50 pre purchase exams per year, I think it was about 80 in 2020... I've had several that people have still bought a horse that's failed the vetting (occasionally abysmally). The best reason yet for this was 'well I've driven all the way here with the box, so I might as well take her'. What was the point in the vetting then?!

Had my first one where the seller tried to guilt trip me for failing their horse last month, saying that I'd made him unsellable and they'd have to PTS. He wasn't useless by any means, just not suitable for the purchaser I was vetting on behalf of. Some things will pass for some uses (e.g. hacking, hunting) that wouldn't pass for other uses (e.g. dressage).

 

[AmyMay]

I only wanted it for pleasure riding as well, it wasn't like it needed to be sound enough for high level eventing or anything.

And there’s the rub. Sound enough for purpose.

 

[ycbm]

So it just got me wondering, what happens to all the poor horses that fail the vet and their owners can't be arsed to try and sort them out?

I have sold 2 vet failures in 30 years, one to the original buyer at a huge reduction, one with full disclosure. Nobody knows what anyone else's situation with selling a horse is, and "can't be arsed" is, to me, unnecessarily judgmental and harsh.

I personally find just looking after any horse I've mentally disconnected from enough to have decided to sell very stressful. The idea of doing a rehab on one, especially if significant expenditure is required and there is no guarantee of success, blows my mind.
.

 

[webble]

My current horse failed the vet, I paid a bit less for him and spent time putting him right, there are people that will do that at the right price if the horse is fixable

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s over a decade since Fatty spectacularly failed the vet , his owner took LOU and I gave her a £1.

I bought MrGS an older hunter some years ago he failed the vet I looked after him carefully and he did five seasons the reason he failed the vet got him in the end but he had five good years I paid for him he was a good horse .


Some failures are lucky some are not life is not fair to horses .

 

[HelenBack]

OK so I've obviously upset a few people and I apologise for that. I'd had a glass of wine and was probably being a bit harsh, plus I've not horse shopped for many years and things seem to have changed.

I've got no problem with people selling a horse with full disclosure and at a reduced price as that seems like the best solution all round but in this case I genuinely don't think that was the case.

I probably asked in the wrong place as this forum is obviously full of people who care for horses and want to do the right thing for them and I'm glad there are plenty of those around. Perhaps I've just been unlucky with my recent shopping experiences to come across some of the less genuine people that are out there.

 

[AmyMay]

Don’t think you’ve upset anyone ??‍

 

[rabatsa]

One of the best ponies that came to RDA for £1, was an expensive pony club pony that failed a vetting. Vetted lame in a knee after the flexion test. The owner wanted a good home where the pony would not be asked to do more than it was capable of doing. We had that pony until he was 26 with never a days lameness, it was a lipoma caused colic that got him in the end.

 

[Glitter's fun]

What happens to horses that fail the vet?

Varies a lot I'd think.

Firstly it depends what the buyer wants to do with it. Goldie had failed as an eventer but I bought her knowing that, & she made a fantastic dressage schoolmistress and light hack & lived to a happy ripe old age with never another lameness ever.

Secondly it depends on the honesty of the seller. I'm looking again at the moment & "old lady's hack" seems to put me in the same category as "bombproof first horse for someone easily duped" so I'm learning quite a bit about human nature.
Just this week I've seen 1 horse re-advertised at an eyewatering price & nothing disclosed after being returned very unsound, another from a different dealer advertised with failed vetting and the reason for it fully disclosed & appropriate discount offered.

I'd guess some of them would go from pillar to post to be honest.

 

[Orangehorse]

Some people will buy a horse unvetted, some through inexperience others because they are experienced!
I could imagine some sellers saying "the horse was vetted last week" (having failed for a previous buyer) but not the outcome!

Some things are fixable by someone experienced and with the facilities, some are willing to take a gamble. I often wonder what happens to some of them too.

 

[HelenBack]

Just to update this, I've had the vetting certificate through now and it says the horse is unsound. Is it standard practice to share these with the seller or am I best just to walk away?

I have seen the advert updated to say the horse is fit and sound to do the sort of job I would have wanted it to so not sure the certificate would be welcome or would just be stirring up trouble?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Personally I'd leave well alone. A vetting is one vet's opinion on one day. Nothing more. It is up to buyers to vet the horse and up to that buyer's vet to make an assessment on what (s)he finds on the day. Walk away and forget it is my advice. I have to say that with my vet fails, an ex-buyer getting involved would have irked me no end! Not because I had anything to hide but because it was no longer any of their business.

 

[HelenBack]

Yes fair enough. I did say I would share it when I first said I wouldn't be buying the horse and I wondered if it might help with future marketing but I take your point. I'll just leave it.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

There is no harm in just sending it to the seller with a 'just in case this is helpful'. But not beyond that. It's hard because you feel sellers should want to know! But responsible ones will get their own vet to assess anyway. Irresponsible ones won't want to know. I had a loan horse who I then wanted to buy. She failed the vet and it was super awkward necause the seller just totally (and genuinely disagreed. I just left it as I felt sending her the report would just add fuel to a tricky situation (she had become a friend through the loan).

 

[HelenBack]

Yes I know what you mean. I'd hope she'd do the right thing by the horse but it's not my place to decide that or interfere if she doesn't want to do that is it? If I do send it I certainly wouldn't get into conversations beyond that. I don't particularly want to make my own life any harder either though so if I send it and get a load of abuse back that won't be very good either.

I might just walk away. I've a feeling from the updated advert that at best it will be ignored and at worst it will cause a problem.

 

[milliepops]

if the horse is genuinely lame it will fail the next vetting. If you're not interested in buying then it's out of your hands now. if a different buyer opts not to vet and can't assess soundness themselves then that's up to them.

I had one that could have failed last week as he trod on a rock on the hard lunge. nowhere non-stony to do it. Fortunately for me, the horse and the buyer, the vet could see that was the problem and we did it again where he was obviously sound. if he'd failed on that then i'd have readvertised with no issue, horse wasn't lame just has flat feet!

 

[little_critter]

I'm a vet and probably do ~50 pre purchase exams per year, I think it was about 80 in 2020... I've had several that people have still bought a horse that's failed the vetting (occasionally abysmally). The best reason yet for this was 'well I've driven all the way here with the box, so I might as well take her'. What was the point in the vetting then?!

Had my first one where the seller tried to guilt trip me for failing their horse last month, saying that I'd made him unsellable and they'd have to PTS. He wasn't useless by any means, just not suitable for the purchaser I was vetting on behalf of. Some things will pass for some uses (e.g. hacking, hunting) that wouldn't pass for other uses (e.g. dressage).

I ignored the vet and bought a vetting failure. Wish I hadn’t, she was PTS about 20 months later. Vet picked up on a sore back, I assumed a saddle check and a bit of physio and she’d be fine. Nope, it was an incurable condition.
I now listen to the vet!

 

[Wishfilly]

I think it depends a lot on the seller.

When I was looking, I had one which was a very marginal failure. I decided to not take the risk, and shared the vet cert with the seller. I assume, ultimately, she sold the pony to someone for whom the positives of the pony outweighed the negatives.

Equally, I know someone who was selling recently, and after a vet fail dropped the price and advertised with disclosure. I believe the horse found a good home who *may* have got a bargain.

But I'm sure there are some who hope to find someone naive enough not to bother vetting and still get a top price. To me, it is *partly* on the owner if they choose to buy without vetting, but I know over the past few years, there's been a lot of pressure on buyers. I lost out on ponies too because I wasn't willing to buy without vetting. Equally, some may hope to give the horse a bit of time off in the field and hope the problem resolves itself.

It can be hard as well when a horse is e.g. on sales livery and the agent has to act on the owner's instructions.

To me, it seems mad to buy trouble (yes, it could get hurt in the field the next day!). But other people are perhaps more confident in their abilities to manage a condition or sort out a problem, so to them, it may be worth it.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I don't always vet but I always say I am going to before I view, no matter what the price. (Well, apart from the £50 pony I bought.) . And then decide later whether I will or not. I can't imagaine a clearer red flag than a seller trying to pressure me into not vetting.

 

[HelenBack]

I've only bought a handful of horses as I tend to just keep them and I haven't always vetted in the past. I think given the way the market seems to have gone and my recent experience I would definitely get any horse vetted from now on, unless it was a real bargain basement job. There are some things that I'd be prepared to take a risk on after a conversation with the vet. In this case though he felt there was a chance the problem could be fairly significant and strongly advised me to walk away. I'm not the best at spotting subtle lameness myself so for me it would definitely be worth it for peace of mind in the future.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I too have often wondered what happened to the lovely horses who failed vettings when I was looking some 5 years ago now.........

One is particularly memorable: this was at a riding school which is reasonably well known in the South Devon area where I'd gone to see a really nice little Welsh D mare. She was from the same bloodlines as my old gal and oh boy I really wanted her! She was absolutely lovely, a dream to ride and bombproof with it.

The Proprietoress of the riding school was a bit sniffy when she learned that another member of the practice was coming to do the vetting. "Oh dear but Mr So-and-So always does the vettings here" was the bleat that immediately arose from her. Then the vet requested the horse trotted up on a level surface in the school - and this evoked the sentiment that "oh Mr So-and-So never asks for this he always trots up along the lane" (like a stony lane with a pronounced slope on it, on the side of a hill, NOT helpful!).

We then proceeded to the school, where the vet I'd engaged found lameness in one of the hind legs. He'd taken some slow-motion shots which clearly showed this. The Proprietoress then became very rude and abusive to the vet saying at the top of her voice so the whole yard knew that he didn't know what he was talking about and needed to get the "normal" vet back to have a look at the horse.

The horse was clearly lame. Broke my heart coz I was sooh sure I'd be bringing her home.

The vet to his credit behaved impeccably in spite of extreme provocation and stuck to his guns. If I lived in the area which his practice covered I would have engaged him without hesitation. Lovely guy. The quiet thoughtful thorough type, reminded me very much of my own vet of that time.

Awful vile woman. With a face permanently like a slapped arse. She is known for it.

 

[irishdraft]

I had a lovely mare vetted she failed vet for 2/10 lame on hard surface. The owners had their own vet have a look & X ray her front feet . X rays showed sidebones & was pronounced 1/10 lame on hard surface. Apparently a steroid injection was all that was required to sort her out. I decided not to proceed but a couple of weeks later saw her advertised for same price having been placed in a ODE the week before. The mare would have been perfect for me so I was left thinking maybe I should have purchased her another vet may have passed her who knows it's a difficult one . I've recently bought a horse from a dealer and have a completely clean 5 stage which also seems rather unusual in itself.

 

[Red-1]

As a buyer, I would either want the horse to have a failed vetting declared and much cheaper, or not declared so I can do my own vetting and insure, blissfully unaware of any issues.

Once a seller has told me that the horse failed a vet because of X, but it was the vet blah blah blah, then I have to tell my insurance company about any history I know about and X would be excluded then, even if my own vet found no issues.

I have certainly known about several who have failed one vetting and gone on to do well with no lameness. A vetting is just for one day.

One horse I looked at, who was doing Novice Eventing, was certainly not level behind when schooled. He was top dollar and I would have taken a punt at a lower price as he was 9, established at Novice, beautifully schooled, kind and a real schoolmaster type. However, I didn't as I didn't fancy telling the owner that I loved his horse but would only pay half of the value as I didn't think he was level.

I kicked myself later, as the horse was bought by an illustrious eventer, and went to the Europeans! Even more so when, years later, I met the seller again and he told me that the horse was bought for less than half the price that he was when I saw him. Gah!

Sounds like I would have been better to actually vet the horse, have him fail and the issue identified, then make the lower offer myself!

You live and learn!

 

[Tiddlypom]

As a buyer, I would either want the horse to have a failed vetting declared and much cheaper, or not declared so I can do my own vetting and insure, blissfully unaware of any issues.

Once a seller has told me that the horse failed a vet because of X, but it was the vet blah blah blah, then I have to tell my insurance company about any history I know about and X would be excluded then, even if my own vet found no issues.

I'm pretty straight and honest, but I wouldn't think to declare a failed previous vetting on a horse if the vetting had been commissioned and paid for by a third party, while not in my ownership.

It would be different if the horse failed when I was the one who had organised and paid for the vetting. That I would declare.

This is another reminder, though, why I no longer bother with equine insurance - these decisions are mine and mine alone, with no tip toeing around insurance companies looking to exclude as much of the horse as they can. I am free of their nonsense.

 

[scats]

Mines in my stable
Polly failed on the lunge, 1/10 lame behind. Negotiated a lower price and brought her as a project. I needed a companion regardless so I knew if she didn’t work out, she was still very much needed.
It’s not been plain sailing with her and we finally got her diagnosed with very mild but chronic PSD, but she’s a gem to have around and enjoys light work. She happily stays in on her own when I’m off out and about with my other mare. I wouldn’t swap her for the world.