Hot or cold?

[Bernster]

I’m in the forward and responsive but not sharp camp. I prefer steadier non spooky ones that are more inclined to go slow than speed up. Matches my wussy personality!

My fav ride though was my buzzy TB who people probably would have described as sharp but I never felt unsafe on her and she never scared me. She did love being out, would jump anything I vaguely pointed her at, and was the fastest thing on the hunting field. We’re both a bit too creaky for that shenanigans now though!

 

[Nasicus]

Sharp? No thanks. Dead to the leg? No thanks.
Forward? Sure, if it's safe about it. Lazy? Sure, if it can be coaxed into action.

My older mare is what you would call forward but safe. Gets the wind up her backside sometimes and jogs, loves a canter/gallop, but generally safe and sensible, if she does spook it tends to be a full body jump on the spot, like a cartoon haha.

I can't be dealing with so lazy it's dead to the leg, I like some sort of response to my aids, even if it's only minor. Trialled one (very briefly!!) that absolutely refused to go above a walk unless you had a good strong whip and smacked him repeatedly along with pony club kicking and growling, and even then you had to continue doing it as you trotted as he'd stop at the first opportunity. I was certainly not comfortable doing that and swiftly cancelled that trial.
And sharp, well I just know I don't have the ability/sticking power to deal with sharp. When I was a fearless kid, sure, but as a 25yo with a job and bills to deal with, I know my limitations.

 

[Annagain]

I have the best of both worlds. M is a star to take places and compete on as he's so laid back it makes everything easy. He's forward enough on the flat not to need nagging and comes alive when he sees a jump which is lovely. He's so utterly reliable, a 12 year old got on him on him on the beach after being frightened by his excited pony. It was only the 3rd time he'd sat on him but he felt totally safe on him despite him being 17hh (pony is 13hh).

I must admit though, I do find hacking him a little bit boring. The closest you come to an adrenalin rush with him is if he trips! Luckily, Arch can provide me with the thrills I need. He's forward and can be strong but he's not silly, spooky or naughty (he wouldn't know how to buck!) We always have this explosion of energy which lasts about 3 seconds (which I love) and then he settles into a nice rhythm. To be honest, unless you have that "Oh s***, am I stopping?" moment when you have that blast, it's not really worth it, is it? To be fair, Arch has always stopped....but not always straight away and never until he's caught up with his much faster friend when he's with us! I hate taking him competing though as he just makes life so difficult with his bolshiness and insecurities!

If I could match M's laid backness while out and about, with A's fun but safe attitude to hacking I'd have the perfect horse!

 

[9tails]

I want forward going, I don't ever want to nag with my legs. But I don't want to be p***ed off with.

 

[BBP]

If I had to smack a horse with a schooling whip to get the reaction i want that isn’t aa horse I want to ride. Whip your own arse with a schooling whip, it’s insanely painful and anyone who uses one this way is abusing it as far as I’m concerned. That isn’t wha schooling whips are for. Makes me insanely angry when I see them used to smack horses.

 

[blitznbobs]

If I had to smack a horse with a schooling whip to get the reaction i want that isn’t aa horse I want to ride. Whip your own arse with a schooling whip, it’s insanely painful and anyone who uses one this way is abusing it as far as I’m concerned. That isn’t wha schooling whips are for. Makes me insanely angry when I see them used to smack horses.

So all those lazy horses left in a field cos no one will ride them and they’ll never have a career cos they are behind your leg but could be ‘made’ by a couple of flicks with a schooling whip - yup that’s a better choice... and yes I have smacked myself with a schooling whip as hard as I’d hit a horse.. it’s stingy but gone within a few seconds ... I’ve also been kicked by a horse which frigging hurt for days and horses do that to each other every day in the field and don’t seem to notice.

 

[milliepops]

So all those lazy horses left in a field cos no one will ride them and they’ll never have a career cos they are behind your leg but could be ‘made’ by a couple of flicks with a schooling whip - yup that’s a better choice... and yes I have smacked myself with a schooling whip as hard as I’d hit a horse.. it’s stingy but gone within a few seconds ... I’ve also been kicked by a horse which frigging hurt for days and horses do that to each other every day in the field and don’t seem to notice.

I think there's a difference between well timed and educational use of a schooling whip, and indiscriminate whacking that teaches the horse nothing.
I am fully on board with sensitively timed use of a whip to teach a horse to go from a light aid. My sec D has learnt this way, to go from my seat or voice or a light leg aid and not need a whip to get a wriggle on -I still use it to teach her to engage more as she goes up the levels but that is a light tap.
My sharp-but-lazy WB is learning the same lesson. I'm happy to use a smart tap with the whip to teach her that she needs to listen to my light leg aid, what is the alternative? You could kick her as hard or as much as you like, she doesn't understand yet.

In theory, all horses would be started well by all people, and all their subsequent riders would keep their training up together... and pigs might fly

 

[JFTDWS]

I have no qualms about smacking a horse's arse with a whip, if it's what it needs at that point in its training - provided it's a clear and well timed correction. Far, far kinder than pony club kicking, nagging, or even leaving a naturally lazy horse in the field to get fat...

 

[ihatework]

I have no qualms about smacking a horse's arse with a whip, if it's what it needs at that point in its training - provided it's a clear and well timed correction. Far, far kinder than pony club kicking, nagging, or even leaving a naturally lazy horse in the field to get fat...

Yup me too.
Although I will agree that a schooling whip damn well stings and to use one (unaltered) would be a very last resort. I find the idle ones just get more resentful or anxious.
What I have found however, if I know I’m riding one that needs ‘in front of the leg’ training is to do a DIY padding job - wrap a schooling whip with that white bandage stuff and cover with vet wrap and duct tape and you can then use a whip aid far more sympathetically.

 

[BBP]

I have no qualms with a jumping whip, I have massive issues with a schooling whip. And a couple of flicks is very different to what you said in your previous post. ‘Sharp smack and crack a horse hard’ is what I objected to in terms of a schooling whip.

 

[JFTDWS]

I generally use a polocrosse bashing implement, which is basically a super long jumping whip. My ponies are so damn hairy, they have insulation from just about any assault on their backsides though!

 

[blitznbobs]

I have no qualms with a jumping whip, I have massive issues with a schooling whip. And a couple of flicks is very different to what you said in your previous post. ‘Sharp smack and crack a horse hard’ is what I objected to in terms of a schooling whip.

That to me is a hard crack

 

[BBP]

I generally use a polocrosse bashing implement, which is basically a super long jumping whip. My ponies are so damn hairy, they have insulation from just about any assault on their backsides though!

Haha! That definitely adds extra padding! I perhaps took exception to the wording as I was unfortunate enough to be familiar with a person who used a schooling whip to establish discipline in their horses that would leave welts, so I took a hard crack to be similar lines when I’m sure that isn’t what was meant. Apologies if I took it too seriously...Rough day.

 

[JFTDWS]

Haha! That definitely adds extra padding! I perhaps took exception to the wording as I was unfortunate enough to be familiar with a person who used a schooling whip to establish discipline in their horses that would leave welts, so I took a hard crack to be similar lines when I’m sure that isn’t what was meant. Apologies if I took it too seriously...Rough day.

I'm generally of the "hard as necessary but as soft as possible" theory - if it needs a crack to get the right reaction, that's what you should do. However, I would also qualify that with the fact that the horse has to be capable of giving the desired response, and any horse which required a crack with any implement which would leave a welt ( ) would strongly suggest to me that the horse isn't capable of what you're asking it - mentally or physically. I also believe in making the right response easy, and the wrong response hard - if you're having to thump a horse to get the right, and therefore, "easy" response, you've seriously lost your way...

Don't apologise though - these are the sorts of things which are worth discussing, I think. Sorry you've had a rough day

 

[BBP]

I'm generally of the "hard as necessary but as soft as possible" theory - if it needs a crack to get the right reaction, that's what you should do. However, I would also qualify that with the fact that the horse has to be capable of giving the desired response, and any horse which required a crack with any implement which would leave a welt ( ) would strongly suggest to me that the horse isn't capable of what you're asking it - mentally or physically. I also believe in making the right response easy, and the wrong response hard - if you're having to thump a horse to get the right, and therefore, "easy" response, you've seriously lost your way...

Don't apologise though - these are the sorts of things which are worth discussing, I think. Sorry you've had a rough day

I think that’s a really good way off thinking about it.

 

[BBP]

They used to use it overhand 😢

 

[milliepops]

They used to use it overhand 😢

That's a ridiculous way of handling a horse, and tbh it sounds like an awkward way to use what is usually quite a flexible bit of kit!

I think you make a good point JFTD and one that people often overlook in training in general, the horse has to be able to identify (eventually.. some need a bit more time than others) the way out of a question or correction that is posed and it needs to be the more comfortable option

 

[blitznbobs]

I certainly have never left welts on any animal ever ...my children maybe but not the animals .. I certainly am not advocating beating horses...





Just in case you didn’t spot it the thing about my kids was a joke ... I’ve never even smacked them - even when they really really ask for it😉

 

[JFTDWS]

I'm trying to work out how you use a whip overhand? Like, palm upward?

 

[BBP]

I certainly have never left welts on any animal ever ...my children maybe but not the animals .. I certainly am not advocating beating horses...





Just in case you didn’t spot it the thing about my kids was a joke ... I’ve never even smacked them - even when they really really ask for it😉

I was being oversensitive, ignore me!

 

[BBP]

I'm trying to work out how you use a whip overhand? Like, palm upward?

Yep, so would be pointing upwards if your hands were in normal riding position. Brutal.

Sorry Blitznbobs, I sidetracked the thread. In essence I just like a happy horse who is keen to get involved in what im asking them to do.

 

[blitznbobs]

No wo

Yep, so would be pointing upwards if your hands were in normal riding position. Brutal.

Sorry Blitznbobs, I sidetracked the thread. In essence I just like a happy horse who is keen to get involved in what im asking them to do.

No worries it’s what happens when you discuss things on the internet - people miscommunications because there is no way to pick up on body language or tone etc

 

[JFTDWS]

Yep, so would be pointing upwards if your hands were in normal riding position. Brutal.

Jesus...

(although I went through a phase of riding with a schooling whip held upright when I was schooling - I think the SRS do it? or some other classical school, and I'm sure there was a reason for it, to do with hand position, or maybe dressing to or something... Certainly not to crack it down onto the horse with more force though!)

 

[Pippity]

Yep, so would be pointing upwards if your hands were in normal riding position. Brutal.

My old riding school tried to get me to wallop a horse that way. I refused.

I once got an outraged reaction from somebody watching me school. They saw the whip go down hard, heard an almighty crack, and saw the horse jump forward, so assumed I'd walloped the horse. I'd actually walloped my boot! It's one of my steps in asking for a response - light aid, heavy aid, whip on boot, whip on horse - with about a second between each step. I've rarely needed to touch a horse with the whip to get it responding.

 

[Chippers1]

I once got an outraged reaction from somebody watching me school. They saw the whip go down hard, heard an almighty crack, and saw the horse jump forward, so assumed I'd walloped the horse. I'd actually walloped my boot! It's one of my steps in asking for a response - light aid, heavy aid, whip on boot, whip on horse - with about a second between each step. I've rarely needed to touch a horse with the whip to get it responding.

I do this, I find I get a much better reaction if I hit myself with the whip rather than my horse, particularly with a short whip when jumping...maybe it's the noise?!

In answer to the other question...I like responsive but forward going, not sharp or too lazy!

 

[ihatework]

Yes it’s very effective on some horses and what I do with my current one who tends a little towards idle but doesn’t actually benefit from a whip aid