How different is the horse world in the UK than the USA?

[Caol Ila]

Nah, it's training, surely. I've seen a lot of cobs with "make me" atttudes, but if you go back in time to when they were the primary mode of transport for Traveller communities, a "make me" attitude would not be brilliant for a horse pulling your whole family in a wagon.

Anyway, hundreds of thousands of TBs and part-TBs in the US. The racing industry over there is BIG, bigger than here, so that's a lot of horses being bred and filtering from the tracks to the general population. They cross them with anything and everything, and there's a lot of TB in some QH bloodlines.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Another expat living in the UK.

Agree with everything alisharrr said. I roll my eyes when people generalize "American style" riding because it's a BIG country with many riding disciplines and traditions and plenty of dodgy sh1t as well as fantastic training and riding. That said, in the West, we do have a tradition of groundwork, but I did not see so much of that when I lived in Massachusetts from 2001-2005. I'm going to lightly attribute that to the history of cattle ranching -- if you were in the middle of nowhere on a five thousand acre ranch fixing fences or caring for cattle, you could not afford to have a bolshy or otherwise difficult to handle horse. There are reasons why Tom Dorrance and Ray Hunt and all those people came out of the western tradition.

Whereas here, lots of people think "that's how he is." Including the bloody pros! My friend sent her cob off to a pro for three weeks of training, and she asked the pro about fixing the horse's habit of dragging her off every time he saw a bale of hay or (someone else's) feed bucket. And there are plenty around, as liveries put buckets in front of stables for staff to feed horses. Pro trainer said, "He is a cob. You can't expect him to not try to get feed or hay. The yard should not have feed buckets or hay lying about." I was floored and said, "That's the biggest pile of bullsh1t I have ever heard." I proved that by 'fixing' it in 30 seconds when I was leading the horse, but he still does it with his owner. Feel and timing.

The 'training barn' thing is less common than it seems online, especially amongst people who don't do hunter/jumpers. If you read COTH, it seems like it's everywhere, but the whole nature of that system very easily leads to fraught relationships and crazy politics, so naturally, people bitch about it on forums.

One thing that really surprises me whenever I have to look for yards here is the run-down derelict nature of so many yards. When I first got off the plane, I was shocked. I didn't want to keep my horse in a dilapidated shed. This may be a reflection of where I've lived in the States, but all the boarding barns in the area were reasonably well-maintained. Some were fancier than others, of course, but none were quite going for the stable door tied on with baling twine level of dilapidation.

Horses are cheaper here, for sure. Unless you want a PRE or a highly-bred warmblood -- they get expensive, but they are even more expensive in the US. You can't get out of bed without stepping on a Gypsy cob in the UK, whereas they are considered a fancy, unusual breed in the US and sell for a zillion dollars (anyone want to start an export business?). Same with the Irish breeds. On the other hand, the US has Morgans, which are awesome, and the gaited breeds. And millions of quarter horses, which is what we all learned to ride on.

I get laughed at sometimes for all the ground work I do and if my horse plays up, which is rarely, we go back to ground work.

He was backed by someone who used Buck Brananman methods so a lot of ground work we had to learn.

And my sister backed her youngster using the TRT Method which has been brilliant for them both and still do lost of ground work.

It's a skill the Brits need to learn and use more.

I think some horses are naturally more sharper than others here, mine is even with ground work but he is polite and does as asked, if that slips there is a problem somewhere.

 

[Orangehorse]

Maybe that's why all these natural horseman ship people have come from the USA? Monty Roberts, Parelli, Mark Rashid, Buck Brannon, Ray Hunt etc. There really weren't any of that sort in the UK. There was a chap called Henry Blake and he would have been the closest. He went off to World War II, so its that long ago. He wrote a couple of books and I can just about remember some of the horses he used to race against in point-to-points. But he only wrote books, never any demos!

I can remember seeing Monty Roberts for the first time and it did make me reassess how I approached my horses, having been brought up through Pony Club, hunting, a very traditional UK riding education.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Nah, it's training, surely. I've seen a lot of cobs with "make me" atttudes, but if you go back in time to when they were the primary mode of transport for Traveller communities, a "make me" attitude would not be brilliant for a horse pulling your whole family in a wagon.

Anyway, hundreds of thousands of TBs and part-TBs in the US. The racing industry over there is BIG, bigger than here, so that's a lot of horses being bred and filtering from the tracks to the general population. They cross them with anything and everything, and there's a lot of TB in some QH bloodlines.

Friend had a cob with a make me attitude, he tried it with me once and never again. She eventually learned to not put with it.

I can't stand rude horses, it's a huge bug bear of mine.
We have disabled people in my house that help with them and they do as their told.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, when I worked briefly at my old yard, the method for turning horses out was to basically hold them by their headcollars and hang on for dear life while they dragged your ass into the field. Kind of worked for YO, who was a strong, tall, scary dude, but was less than ideal for me, as I am none of those things. When one got away from me, YO yelled at me for not holding it tightly enough and said, "These horses are not like your horse!" "No sh1t," I wanted to say. "They're not f7ckin' trained!" Of course, I did not say that. But I did wonder how all 5'4 of me was meant to 'just hold' a 17hh WB that had no idea what 'yield to pressure' meant, no respect for human space, and every intention of throwing itself into the air (and into me, while I was leading another horse along with it) and running off.

No one ever worked there for long. He was always looking for people to do the morning chores. I think everyone he hired lasted about five minutes, as I did.

That said, I worked for a summer at a dressage barn in upstate New York, and had a stable full of similarly feral warmbloods. In fairness, though, the trainer was from Germany. When he saw me attempting to put some basic ground manners on these monsters so I could get them in and out of the field without getting squashed or dragged, he laughed and said, "These German horses... They are not like your horse. They are too smart." Whatever the hell that meant. The best behaved horse of the lot was a draft-cross stallion (the only non-WB in the barn, other than the working students' horses). Trainer thought this horse was unworthy, but the owner was paying him good money to train it. Unlike the collection of imported Hannoverians, someone had taken the time to instill some reasonable manners in the stallion.

 

[welshpony216]

The award color order is different as well (think everyone knows this...i use this one to much), here first place is blue, and the ribbons seem to look different as well.

 

[splashgirl45]

i watched animal cops, houston the other day and was shocked to see very skinny horses which were still being ridden and they had horrible sores on their backs. it looks like people got hold of horses and had them on waste ground and had no idea of how to look after them.....hope this doesnt happen too often on other parts of the usa as well as it was quite upsetting...

 

[Turitea]

What I will never understand is this senseless "mandate" in the hunter jumper world of jumping horses with a standing martingale.

 

[welshpony216]

Were I live, we never have had any welfare problems, some people are just daft. It really depends on were you are.

 

[welshpony216]

What I will never understand is this senseless "mandate" in the hunter jumper world of jumping horses with a standing martingale.

I think people do it for looks, the horses are nearly draging their head on the floor.

 

[Turitea]

Thanky you for your answer. Wow, I really thought there is a more profound reason for it.

 

[Cortez]

What I will never understand is this senseless "mandate" in the hunter jumper world of jumping horses with a standing martingale.

Standing martingales are an ubiquitous fashion in the US hunter jumper world, just as the running martingale is here. At least the standing martingale doesn't really have any effect, unlike the running variety.

 

[Littlewills]

Standing martingales are an ubiquitous fashion in the US hunter jumper world, just as the running martingale is here. At least the standing martingale doesn't really have any effect, unlike the running variety.

There isn't any class in existence in the UK where every horse has a running martingale though?

 

[Cortez]

There isn't any class in existence in the UK where every horse has a running martingale though?

Just about every horse in a showjumping competition will be wearing a running martingale, same on a cross country course, out hunting, etc. It is a fashion, a habit, a convention, whatever you you like to call it. Just the same in HJ competition in the US, it's not a requirement, but it is ubiquitous.

 

[Alibear]

The horse prices thing is reversed a bit over here, Gypsy cobs are readily available but you need deep pockets if you want to buy a quarter horse, especially a trained one I'm loving the more trained and better ground work /in hand manners approach too. It makes having horses a lot more enjoyable and as other have said it can be done with any breed of horse. As always pluses and minuses to both sides.

 

[SBJT]

I would hesitate to make broad generalisations as the USA scene can depend what part of the country you live in. I had a relative who lives in Washington State. They bought their house as it has access to a very large forest for hacking, by permit, and several people also trailered in to ride there. According to this person you simply never rode on the roads, as they aren't all that wide and the traffic would just run you down (nice) although once I did see someone riding next to a road where there was a good wide grass verge.

Their Pony Club was organised by the local church, but rallies and competitions were a long, long trailer ride away so they didn't do much. I guess the distances are so large that is why lots of people keep their horse at a barn, where everything is available including competitions and training.

Looking at things available in the local tack/feed store and advertisements for horses, it seemed pretty much the same as UK. I know that winter feed was alphalfa hay and they didn't get much else.

My knowledge of Western was from a Montana riding holiday! Where the horses were parelli trained and mostly in bitless bridles and we, the Brits, were constantly told off for having too much contact! The horses were all very nice. We went to a sort of family rodeo and one of the girls was put on a naughty horse that was trying to buck and I must say we were impressed with her skills and how she got the horse going and competiting, with roping, etc.

Children get put on reliable, well schooled, usually older horses and don't get chucked off as much as British children on their naughty ponies.

There is also the Saddleseat and showing scene. Which is in the UK, but in a very, very small niche.

Driving - never heard of the sulkie with the fringe on top? Driving is big in the USA, but you are siting a lot lower down, I thought, so hope the horse doesn't decide to kick, maybe this is why they put a bearing rein so they can't get their heads down?

I think the thing about the USA not putting up with naughty horses, or those with a bad temperament are right. A horse is still a working animal and they just couldn't deal with something that was going to be difficult. Think of why USA breeds have become quite popular in the UK - the Morgans, quarter horse, saddlebred, etc. and generally no 1 is the temperment. Much more human friendly than the historically UK bred horse that is half TB, and can often have the TB's challenging "make me" attitude.

Contact is a good point. I spent my childhood learning in the UK which was all about short reins and contact. When I moved here I did have an episode with a horse as I rode my English way and the horse really didn’t like it. Then I went the other way and had too little contact. Now it’s a happy medium but probably still too little for the UK. Interestingly I read a lot on this forum about kissing spine which is not nearly as much of an issue in North America.

As for behaviour it’s true a lot of horses are working horses here and having them misbehave around cattle or working on the range you’d never get anything done. Groundwork is huge here and bad behaviour isn’t really tolerated.

 

[welshpony216]

One thing I’ve noticed is that American barns usually have both hot and cold water and a heated wash stall as pretty much standard.

Ha! not here, we only have water from a shallow well, that is cold even in the hottest of summer. the arena is simply a bit of uneven grass fenced with a string of electric fence tape around it, moved around a few times a year so it doesn't get to hard (no critiques please, my friend tries her hardest, horses sure don't come cheap!)

 

[Annagain]

You can't get out of bed without stepping on a Gypsy cob in the UK, whereas they are considered a fancy, unusual breed in the US and sell for a zillion dollars (anyone want to start an export business?).

If only Americans knew how most of the gypsy cobs are bred and raised over here, I doubt they'd pay the prices they do for them. There's a very well known "breeder" (I use the term very loosely) of gypsy horses in my area who exports his badly put together, indiscriminately bred (as in chuck 70 horses together, see what you get and discard the bad ones) gypsy cobs to the US and makes a fortune out of it - having spent very little on them while they're here. He grazes them wherever he finds an empty field (or he did before a crackdown a couple of years back) and has been banned from keeping them after several convictions for cruelty.

 

[welshpony216]

Children get put on reliable, well schooled, usually older horses and don't get chucked off as much as British children on their naughty ponies.

guess I am British then

the pony I learned to ride on, was a bolter, bucker, rearer, spinner, go under low brancheser, barn sourer, among other things. he had to be ridden in a kimblewick, or else he could not be controlled at all lol

 

[CanteringCarrot]

i watched animal cops, houston the other day and was shocked to see very skinny horses which were still being ridden and they had horrible sores on their backs. it looks like people got hold of horses and had them on waste ground and had no idea of how to look after them.....hope this doesnt happen too often on other parts of the usa as well as it was quite upsetting...

So this is something that irks me a little bit. Well, not exactly this but generalization. I've kept horses in the US and can elaborate more later. You cannot watch Animal Cops that only features animals that are in very bad situations in one part of the country and assume it is rampant in others. The USA is huge. Does animal abuse and neglect happen in other parts of the USA absolutely, but it also happens in the UK. I don't read H&H articles about a starved stranded pony left to die and think "I hope this doesn't happen in other parts of the UK" I mean, I do hope it doesn't, but it does, and those instances are the minority, not the majority. Same with in the USA.

Honestly, that episode of Animal Cops doesn't sound much worse than stuff I've seen or read (again, some even from H&H) about goings on on this side of the pond. There are vile people out there. The USA is larger so it is likely more cases are reported due to the sheer size of the land and population.

Anyway, while there are some differences (mostly access and cost) between the US and UK, it isn't a vast divide and the US really is big and you (general you) cannot make sweeping generalizations.

I think Hunter/Jumpers are totally bizarre, but I know not every American participates or supports that discipline.



Side note: I never saw a Gypsy Cob where I lived in America. I don't even know an American that owns one. I didn't know they were still some expensive thing. Strange. I thought maybe that interest had died down a bit. But again, I only lived in the small corner of a large country.

 

[greenbean10]

Not sure if it’s been said but one thing I notice (from just following US showjumpers on Instagram and YouTube) is that their showjumping competitions always seem to have very few entries! One girl I follow jumped a few horses each at snails pace at a 3 day show and won every class as there were only 3 others in it!

I notice American SJs would think a jumping class with 30-40 people in it was very busy. If I went to my local venue to jump BS and there were 30 in it I’d be elated as I might actually have a shot at winning ? At our 3 day shows I wouldn’t be surprised to see 100 competitors for most classes under about 1.30!

 

[SBJT]

If only Americans knew how most of the gypsy cobs are bred and raised over here, I doubt they'd pay the prices they do for them. There's a very well known "breeder" (I use the term very loosely) of gypsy horses in my area who exports his badly put together, indiscriminately bred (as in chuck 70 horses together, see what you get and discard the bad ones) gypsy cobs to the US and makes a fortune out of it - having spent very little on them while they're here. He grazes them wherever he finds an empty field (or he did before a crackdown a couple of years back) and has been banned from keeping them after several convictions for cruelty.

OMG I’ve seen the prices of the gypsy cobs here at $20,000 plus ?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

OMG I’ve seen the prices of the gypsy cobs here at $20,000 plus ?

WHY?

I don't get it. Who was the genius that marketed these horses in America?

 

[SBJT]

WHY?

I don't get it. Who was the genius that marketed these horses in America?

I’m sure it’s because they’re classed as an ‘exotic’ breed just like Freisians (they’re also $20,000 to $30,00 depending if you want trained or untrained. It’s ludicrous!!

Quarter horses go for peanuts here and I think they’re pretty expensive in the UK?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I’m sure it’s because they’re classed as an ‘exotic’ breed just like Freisians (they’re also $20,000 to $30,00 depending if you want trained or untrained. It’s ludicrous!!

Quarter horses go for peanuts here and I think they’re pretty expensive in the UK?

I suppose that's true. Quarter Horses here in Germany can be quite pricey and they're usually scrawny little things things somewhat questionable conformation. Same with the Thoroughbreds, to some extent.

Warmblood prices in America are nuts too, generally, it seems.

 

[SBJT]

I suppose that's true. Quarter Horses here in Germany can be quite pricey and they're usually scrawny little things things somewhat questionable conformation. Same with the Thoroughbreds, to some extent.

Warmblood prices in America are nuts too, generally, it seems.

TBs go for free here or sadly they’re slaughtered due to overbreeding for racing. Some go to the chucks but they have their controversies too. (Please don’t shoot the messenger)

Most of us import warmbloods from Europe too so I think they’re crazy priced anywhere.

At some point my husband and I are moving back to UK and I’ve been pondering what to do horse wise. Bring over a QH or find something there.

 

[Berpisc]

i watched animal cops, houston the other day and was shocked to see very skinny horses which were still being ridden and they had horrible sores on their backs. it looks like people got hold of horses and had them on waste ground and had no idea of how to look after them.....hope this doesnt happen too often on other parts of the usa as well as it was quite upsetting...

This can occur anywhere in the world. There are good and bad horse keepers anywhere.

 

[Orangehorse]

TBs go for free here or sadly they’re slaughtered due to overbreeding for racing. Some go to the chucks but they have their controversies too. (Please don’t shoot the messenger)

Most of us import warmbloods from Europe too so I think they’re crazy priced anywhere.

At some point my husband and I are moving back to UK and I’ve been pondering what to do horse wise. Bring over a QH or find something there.

It depends on how much you like your Quarter Horse. They are available in the UK, rather more expensive that the average horse. There are Western Equestrian societies and western horse shows, tends to be in small pockets, so its nice if there is one near you, or it might mean travelling a long way.

But on the other hand finding a nice horse, straightforward with good riding and ground manners with no veterinary issues can be harder than it should be. In some ways it can be easier to find a good competition horse, as the producers have a bigger financial interest in its schooling.

 

[Caol Ila]

Dressage is dressage. Never found much difference in contact or anything in that discipline. It's completely dependant on the trainer.

i watched animal cops, houston the other day and was shocked to see very skinny horses which were still being ridden and they had horrible sores on their backs. it looks like people got hold of horses and had them on waste ground and had no idea of how to look after them.....hope this doesnt happen too often on other parts of the usa as well as it was quite upsetting...

Well, yeah. Think critically about what you're watching. Animal Cops are not exactly going to show someone's beautiful equestrian facility with acres of rolling fields, where the horses have vets and physios waiting on them hand and foot, and the owners cater slavishly to their every need. That would be a boring show. "Hey, Sergeant, so we got some really shiny, fat horses here. Got one who's apparently on every joint supplement known to man. Another seeing the Reiki person. Very suspicious. Third one... I dunno... He appears to be getting a massage."

It depends on how much you like your Quarter Horse. They are available in the UK, rather more expensive that the average horse. There are Western Equestrian societies and western horse shows, tends to be in small pockets, so its nice if there is one near you, or it might mean travelling a long way.

But on the other hand finding a nice horse, straightforward with good riding and ground manners with no veterinary issues can be harder than it should be. In some ways it can be easier to find a good competition horse, as the producers have a bigger financial interest in its schooling.

Yeeeah, I kind of get that. I have not yet had the experience of horse hunting in the UK, but a lot of the stuff I've seen friends and acquaintances buy needs a lot of work. The Gypsy cobs and ISH may be common, but many have shocking conformations. And a lot of the supposedly 'broke' things have holes in their training you could drive a bus through. I think someone earlier in this thread had a good theory for that -- many of the cheaper, allegedly ammy-friendly riding horses are imported from Ireland, and the Irish dealers break them rough and ready, and then ship them to the UK by the boatload. There are very nice, well-bred horses to be had, either imported or UK-bred, for sure, but you need to either pay a lot if you want it beautifully trained, or you need the skills to buy a youngster and produce it yourself. Or get extremely lucky.

When I've horse hunted in the US, there's also plenty of shight, but it did not take long to find well-put together, ammy-friendly horses.

QHs are pretty rare. There are two at my yard, but the owner imported them from Texas.

 

[Julie Ole Girl]

My friend in Texas loves her rodeo riding, as does her father. I watched it once on TV when in Arkansas, it was amazing to see young women racing round like that, and young girls too.