How do things go so wrong so quickly!

[Wheresthehoofpick]

I was in the horrible position selling a much loved nervous but gentle horse that just wasn’t going to suit our massively tall kids. I took a person out to try him she similarly shrieked he is rearing. She was asking him to wait around the corner from his beloved field mate and he took two steps backwards. He loathed her. Despite her “experience” and her expert friend. She rode him for ten mins and it took me three weeks to calm him. I am a total novice!!

 

[Cloball]

This could easily have been me had I not been on a lovely supportive yard with instructor/YO. Not that my pony reared she just became very spooky and anxious and my confidence abandoned me. Thankfully we've quietly worked through it with a bit of hand holding and now I've got a fab little pony who leads other past scary things.... which is the pony I bought. You are right they are not robots and this pony is clearly trying to express something quite loudly.

 

[Ambers Echo]

The thing that gets me is that this is genuinely a gem of a pony. Clearly something has gone wrong but there could be so many reasons. Pony was out 24/7 with no hard feed and regularly worked with us. Maybe they kept her in, rarely rode and stuffed her full of corn?? So she was bouncing off the walls. I remember a new pony arriving years ago who bucked my friend’s daughter off that first week. They rang the old owners who came over, talked through management, agreed to give child lessons on the pony once a week free of charge because they really wanted it to work. My friends daughter and the old owners worked through the issues and he’s been amazing for her. She still has him and won’t ever part with him.

But these owners have immediately just shouted ‘missold, dangerous!’ Sad that people are so suspicious.

 

[gunnergundog]

It happens!

Years ago I had an aged BE novice eventer that wasn't going anywhere and a 5 year old that was on the ascendancy. I found a sharer for the former who rode him 3-4 times a week on his then current yard and all was well. She asked to move him closer to home (19 miles away) so that novicey sister could also ride him. I inspected yard and sister had a couple of 'test drives' and all was well. It was agreed that the ned would live out 24x7 in order to be more amenable for the novicey sister. Two weeks later I had a call to say that ned had decked the novice, so could I come over and see what was what. Ned was a bit on his toes but didn't really put a hoof out of place. I gave him a good amount of work and put him back in his box....ie no allowance for ANY pushing of the boundaries. Roll on another week and I get a call to come and collect him as he has decked both of them. It turns out that all the other horses were being brought in at night and ned was screaming his head off being out on his own. Farmer was, very reasonably, complaining. I turn up to collect ned at 10am one morning; he is in his box and everything else has been turned out. He is dripping in sweat as has been box walking and his breakfast is still in a bucket outside his door - a black bucket half full of maize, oats, chaff and sugar beet.

The first and last time I ever put a horse on loan. This was a genuine horse that could have taught both of them a lot IF they had followed the instructions given re his keep. Namely, ideally out 24x7 or if stabled at night then soaked hay and a bucket of carrots and chaff when others were fed. NOTHING ELSE. I learnt from this experience....hopefully they did too.

 

[humblepie]

Years ago one of my first ponies who was really easy was sold and my father took back as buyer said not a child’s first pony. It was funny as DC of pony club had recommended him to the people as quiet

 

[DressageCob]

My first horse was a very different chap between me trying him and him within a few weeks of my ownership. I think it's because we were on a much busier yard, he was fed more and I wasn't as good a rider as my predecessor. Thing is, he was almost too good when I tried him. At that point I'd just had shoulder surgery and felt safe on him, but I barely walked and trotted. He switched on massively once he was home and settled, and I remember coming back from one hack feeling exhausted, in pain and a bit frightened because he'd broncked most of the time, cantered on a road and was overall a bit much. But I was given a slapping by my YO, called a brat by the other liveries, got my act together and he turned into the most perfect boy. I had him for 12 years before I lost him a couple of years ago.

 

[dougpeg]

I think often it's to do with their environment. Some set ups don't work for some horses. My mare for example; I've had her 16 years and know her inside out. She's a fabulous, truly exceptional horse who is good in all ways. Yet on the wrong yard she becomes a total stress head. If you didn't know her normal you'd think she was tricky. Another example is when I put her on loan. The loaner sent her back as she wouldn't load for her. In all the years I've had the horse she's loaded fine. I've been to the Isle and man and back with her, had multiple trips out etc. Clearly the issue wasn't with the horse.

I'm glad to hear the pony is back as it doesn't sound like it was the right home. Unfortunately its easy to focus on the horse. Often the issue just needs a bit of unpicking and you can find your way.

 

[SadKen]

I agree that environment, feed and routine are the likely culprits here. We had various ponies come through the riding school I went to which were too much for young owners, who lost confidence on them. In 5+ hours steady work a day, turnout on days off and 24/7 in summer, plus a cast iron regimented routine, and they were all relaxed, predictable and well behaved within a couple of weeks. Great care was taken when selling on to reiterate the importance of work and routine.

I decided not to buy a Fell off conservation grazing, in part because I couldn’t offer a similar setup (limited turnout in winter) and didn’t want to take a chance that the pony would struggle with such a change in routine (although Fells are very biddable ime).

My guess with this pony is one or several of: more food, less turnout, a chaotic lack of routine, less work, lack of suitable company, resulting in a worried pony who doesn’t see a safe leader in any of her human companions and has decided whatever they wanted her to do is too risky.

 

[Michen]

True. I don’t have an issue with them deciding she is not the right fit for them. But the ‘she’s dangerous/unsuitable for a child and has been missold’ stuff and telling old owner they need to ‘advertise her for an adult’ is annoying.

But the pony reared? Whatever the reason, I agree it now most likely isn’t suitable for a child or at the very least they have to declare it can and has reared.

 

[Winters100]

But the pony reared? Whatever the reason, I agree it now most likely isn’t suitable for a child or at the very least they have to declare it can and has reared.

Speaking personally I would tell any buyer the full story of what happened, but providing the pony does not rear again I would explain it as the buyer 'claimed the pony had reared'. Having heard the description of the pony I think it highly likely that it was not a rear at all - maybe a bounce as a result of a novice hanging onto the mouth.

I say this because some time ago I was asked to go and see a pony that the buyers claimed had been mis-sold. I knew the pony as I had ridden it when starting riding again after a serious accident, and the only complaint that I could imagine about him would be that he had a tendancy to grind to a halt if not reminded to keep going.

The buyers had taken a pony, who was used to being turned out in a pack dawn to dusk, to a smart competition yard. He had no turnout, just some small amount of exercise from being ridden by a novice, and going on the horse walker. I could not believe the amount of hard food - more than what mine get in relatively hard work. I saw what they described as a 'bolt', which I would describe as 'going a bit faster than expected due to being booted in the ribs'. Luckily in this case they did take my advice, moved the pony to the yard where I keep mine, put him out 24/7 in a pack, and got lessons, but if it had not been the case that they had contact with someone who knew the pony they probably would have kept saying that it was mis-sold.

I am aware that some ponies are mis-sold, but in my opinion many more are simply mis-bought. I find it rather sad that people would not reach out to the sellers for advice in this situation, and in the event that they had made a mistake and bought the wrong pony, try to come to some agreement about re-selling. Since OP is on the same yard as this pony I am sure that she would know if the pony was a rearer, certainly in our yard it would be a point of discussion if a child's pony was seen to do this.

Poor pony to have had what was probably a very stressful experience.

 

[scats]

I’ve seen this happen a few times over the years. I think people can underestimate what a change of home, routine, owner/rider, feed, possibly tack… can do.
Difficult situation now for the owner who has the pony back as they really must disclose this to anyone who comes to view for a child. I would be mightily annoyed if someone sold me a safe pony that has actually been returned for rearing. All they can do is be honest, perhaps off a trial at their own yard for a week, something like that.

 

[lannerch]

But the pony reared? Whatever the reason, I agree it now most likely isn’t suitable for a child or at the very least they have to declare it can and has reared.

Are you sure about that? one persons idea of a rear is a slight leap for another person.
No horse is totally safe all horses can and do rear. Just depends on the provocation.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

But the pony reared? Whatever the reason, I agree it now most likely isn’t suitable for a child or at the very least they have to declare it can and has reared.

But did it? People can have very different perceptions of what constitutes a rear.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

People don’t realise that horses aren’t robots.

 

[Ambers Echo]

The owners aren’t selling anyway now. They are offering pony out on loan so they can make sure she lands on her hooves. Possibly LWVTB eventually, but they want control over quality of home.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

I've got LRFR mare who's 95% reliable with complete novice children so long as there is a very competent adult actually in charge. She does have her moments, and she needs an experienced eye on her to look out for small warning signs that a novice/child might not spot (I'll be honest - this was a steep learning curve for me, as this was my first pony for 15 years, and I was not entirely competent or confident when I got her).

So it might well be the adults who are the problem, not the children or the pony.

 

[Michen]

But did it? People can have very different perceptions of what constitutes a rear.

In the eyes of the law it wouldn't really matter. As someone who did have to take a seller to court for selling a known rearer to me as a "schoolmistress", it could be considered misrepresentation if the new buyer ever spoke to original buyer and they wrote a statement saying it had reared and that they informed the seller it had and hadn't been declared (not suggesting that was this sellers intentions btw)

I agree, ponies aren't robots, but I think the seller is being very sensible by now switching to loaning with a view to buy.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I’ve seen this happen a few times over the years. I think people can underestimate what a change of home, routine, owner/rider, feed, possibly tack… can do.
Difficult situation now for the owner who has the pony back as they really must disclose this to anyone who comes to view for a child. I would be mightily annoyed if someone sold me a safe pony that has actually been returned for rearing. All they can do is be honest, perhaps off a trial at their own yard for a week, something like that.

And there are several posters on this forum who will tell you categorically that a safe child's pony, used to going out and about to shows/PC etc should be able to change homes with no behaviour changes whatsoever.
I disagree; they are not like furry bicycles, they are sentient beings with opinions of their own. Some equines will settle immediately at some yards, some need a bit of time to settle and others never do settle. We moved our 1st Appaloosa mare after 6 weeks. On paper the 2 yards were almost exactly the same, even so far as having a resident working stallion. She was most unsettled at the first yard and her behaviour improved 100% from the moment she walked onto the 2nd yard. In fact the 2 yards were close enough that we led her from one to the other, at the halfway point, we went along a farm track/bridleway to avoid a tricky bit of road. Her behaviour changed along the track and continued to improve from then. We never did work out what the problem was at the first yard but she obviously thought there was one. After 10 years, We moved her twice in quick succession, as we bought our own yard and she settled well each time.

 

[onemoretime]

Not horses but my friend who's a vet. nurse told me about a nice, polite family who went into her work to have a dog pts because it was biting them. Real bites- she saw the scars on his hands. The people were very distressed. Dog was about a year old & their 1st dog but they seemed to have done all the right things- vaccines, puppy classes etc. They bought a new puppy from a different source. Doubly careful with training, socialising, advice. That one was also pts for biting them. Neither were of breeds with any aggressive reputation.
No one ever found out what they did.

Puppies chew anything even your hand. That is such a sad story.

 

[onemoretime]

But did it? People can have very different perceptions of what constitutes a rear.

I dont think anyone really knows if it actually reared or not. It may have just jumped forward or bounced. You only have what sounds like, very inexperienced purchasers story to go on. Too many people buying horse and ponies that really should not.

 

[Peglo]

My new horse I bought in the summer has taken until now really to be more like the horse I viewed. I’ve only tried to sit on her once and she tried to get me off as she didn’t feel comfortable or secure and so I took a step back and let her have time. I bought her as I needed a second horse and she’s done that great. I didn’t NEED to get on her.

I don’t think it’s me (although maybe someone else could’ve ridden her sooner) but she went from living on a hill surrounded by trees and hedges in England to being able to see for miles in every direction with the wind blowing up from the sea. I was told she was always bottom of the pecking order but here she had to try and come into a very established herd and found herself at the top that she’s not used to.
She was happy and content where she came from and she was taken from that to a new place with new smells, different sights, no friends and a human she didn’t know or trust. It’s no wonder they aren’t the same horse. I won’t lie, I panicked and thought I might ruin her and wanted her to go back to her previous owner who she liked and trusted but we just needed time. I’ve still not sat on her again (I’ve been getting Tali back into work and weather hasn’t been kind) but I’m so glad I’ve given us time as seeing her finally as she was before has been lovely. I guess not everyone wants to wait months to ride.
My TB settled here quickest and that was because she was miserable where she was before.
ETA obviously i don’t mean if a horse settles quite happily they must’ve come from an unhappy home. Horses all react differently to scenarios.

 

[expanding_horizon]

My new horse I bought in the summer has taken until now really to be more like the horse I viewed. I’ve only tried to sit on her once and she tried to get me off as she didn’t feel comfortable or secure and so I took a step back and let her have time. I bought her as I needed a second horse and she’s done that great. I didn’t NEED to get on her.

I don’t think it’s me (although maybe someone else could’ve ridden her sooner) but she went from living on a hill surrounded by trees and hedges in England to being able to see for miles in every direction with the wind blowing up from the sea. I was told she was always bottom of the pecking order but here she had to try and come into a very established herd and found herself at the top that she’s not used to.
She was happy and content where she came from and she was taken from that to a new place with new smells, different sights, no friends and a human she didn’t know or trust. It’s no wonder they aren’t the same horse. I won’t lie, I panicked and thought I might ruin her and wanted her to go back to her previous owner who she liked and trusted but we just needed time. I’ve still not sat on her again (I’ve been getting Tali back into work and weather hasn’t been kind) but I’m so glad I’ve given us time as seeing her finally as she was before has been lovely. I guess not everyone wants to wait months to ride.
My TB settled here quickest and that was because she was miserable where she was before.

I tend to go the other way (especially when moving horses I already own), I tend to hack them for a decent hack the morning of the move, turn them out at new yard, and work them pretty hard over next week (nothing stressful just lots of schooling / long hacks and hills and they settle better that way. Similarly buying an in work adult horse, I try to keep them in full work and think they settle and behave better that way. Not so easy if need new saddle / things treating etc. And I wouldnt just push on and ride an obviously stressed and anxious horse but most of mine have been fine to crack on.

 

[Peglo]

I tend to go the other way (especially when moving horses I already own), I tend to hack them for a decent hack the morning of the move, turn them out at new yard, and work them pretty hard over next week (nothing stressful just lots of schooling / long hacks and hills and they settle better that way. Similarly buying an in work adult horse, I try to keep them in full work and think they settle and behave better that way. Not so easy if need new saddle / things treating etc. And I wouldnt just push on and ride an obviously stressed and anxious horse but most of mine have been fine to crack on.

Yeah I’ve read people do that and that’s great if it works. I live off the top of Scotland so the poor horse had to travel for 18 hours to get here and got in after midnight. I also didn’t have tack sorted but I would give any horse a few days off after that travelling.

 

[scruffyponies]

As a bottom of the market buyer, I take with a pinch of salt any claims by the seller about a pony. IME 90% of problem horses are caused by problem owners, and not in the way that people imagine. Few have been beaten, even few overworked. Most have been freaked out by incompetent handling, anxious or jumpy owners and/or terrible riding.

Sometimes though, just a change is enough. My quietest, safest youngster went off at 5 to a friend. He came back a year or so later an anxious bargy twit. Took about 3 months to calm him down again. He had been out in a herd, hacked out regularly, no hard feed. All it took to mess him up was less work, a single companion and food in buckets.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

When I worked at the RS my boss bought two new ponies. One of them a very nice looking and beautifully turned out chocolate coloured pony about 13hhs. He slotted into the school very easily, no problems at all with him. One of the younger riders fell in love with him and badgered her parents into buying him, shame as she was going to outgrow him pretty quickly. Anyway they moved him to a field nearby with several other ponies. The girl was one of these who stuffed her pony with treats but was way too soft and inexperienced to know what she was doing. That pony quickly got a reputation as being thoroughly vicious as he bullied everyone for food who stepped into the field, using teeth and heels. He became notorious, they couldn't cope and ended up having to sell him. Perfectly good pony ruined by too much kindness.

 

[irishdraft]

I must admit I would have previously been in the camp of new novice owners not having a clue on a previously good pony but having a mare I bought a year ago be a complete over reactive, anxious, stressy animal who has taken a year to settle and who still has to be carefully managed I'm much more open minded. My mare was described as a first horse she was supposed to be so quiet but I honestly think she would have killed someone yet even now I still find it difficult to believe the people I bought her from would have lied so badly about her. So I do think the move to a new place really affected her even though she is in the same situation that she was previously, at home with a retired companion.

 

[Ambers Echo]

So turns out they didn’t ride for 3 weeks to ‘let her settle’ then sent her back after the first ride where apparently the rear happened. This was a pony used to being regularly worked. Especially all summer.

They are adamant she was missold and are being really rude to my friend. Despite 2 references from PC instructors and a quibble free instant refund and return.

Oh well. She’s home now and there’s a queue of kids wanting to loan her so
all’s well that ends well.

 

[scats]

I know that Millie never reared in her previous home, but I also know that she was never asked to do anything she might have had an opinion about, such as hack alone. Her owner was lovely but very soft and was quite honest that she didn’t ask much of Millie because she was a relatively novice rider herself and just pootled about behind people on hacks, or her little girl rode her in walk around the school.
Millie came to me and after getting to know her, I started to put some boundaries and expectations in place of what I expect of a ridden horse and my god did Millie have something to say about that!
I learned there is a rear in there if you push her buttons (thankfully she is now a willing participant in all my suggested activities!) but I also completely believe that she didn’t show this in her previous home so I don’t feel I was duped in any way.
It really doesn’t surprise me when horses act differently for different people.

An unsettled and underworked (but probably still fed) pony, a place they aren’t used to and a rider with a strong leg? I can see how a nap could turn into a rear in those circumstances. Not ideal for a child’s pony but they aren’t machines after all.
Equally, I can see why the people would want to return it.

Glad she has something sorted now anyway, AE.

 

[Ambers Echo]

The child who has had her for 2 years was nervous and novice at first. But was also a quiet, gentle rider. The parents are non horsey but she was on full livery so had competent daily handling. She is a fab pony - the child was only 10 when she arrived but handled her independently: fetched her in, tacked her up, hacked her out. Never put a hoof wrong. But she was used to 24/7 turn out and regular riding. I can’t fathom how anyone can think leaving her unridden for 3 weeks was a good idea. Then expecting to just get on, and for her to behave exactly like the pony they viewed. Not cutting her any slack for new home, new routines, reduced work. Not asking for any management advice. The safest, kindest pony can bounce in those situations. And then to immediately shout ‘missold’ ‘dangerous’ instead of ‘badly managed’ ‘need advice!’. Upshot is they have rejected the sort who is very hard to find.

I agree with PAS - they are not robots and any pony with poor management and a change of environment can react. But equally their basic nature is their basic nature and I have no doubt that with a few tweaks and a bit of patience, she would have become the pony they wanted.

 

[sollimum]

Years ago we bought a wonderful pony, he is still owned by us. For no fault of his own he had been through several homes that summer before we bought him (genuine reasons). He arrived a little unsettled and on his first hack solo with a very petite adult friend, reared when he went down our drive, leaving his new friends and jogged around the village. He never did after that ride, he was obviously really worried so we took a step back, kept him in his comfort zone until he knew he was settled here with us.

He turned out to be the most amazing pony and friend, he is out on loan still doing a wonderful job with little riders. If we had sent him back my daughter would have missed so many years of adventures and fun.

To be honest whenever I have bought a new pony/horse I always think I don't know you and you don't know me and what have I done. Presumably they feel the same.