how do you get a horse into an outline???

[AprilBlue]

i've been all over the internet searchin about how to get a horse into an outline, wiggling my fingers doesn't work, engaging the horses hocks doesn't work and how do i get the horses back to relax??

my main question is, how do you get a horse into an outline

thanks

 

[joeanne]

Get an instructor to work with you and the horse.

 

[Equi]

By encouraging a low head carriage. Do this by opening your hands and placing them down towards your knees.

 

[AprilBlue]

my instructor said (because i ride at a riding school) that the horse i am on would not understand it and he would fling his head about everywhere even if a dressage champion would try.

but, a couple of weeks ago, i was just riding the same horse and he started going into a really nice outline, i don't know how i done it but he hasn't done it ever since! any tips?

i don't want to force the horse to do it just to let you know, i want it to come naturally

 

[Tiarella]

Some horses are never taught to go in an outline, they build their neck and back muscles the wrong way and then find it difficult or just totally dont understand when being asked.

 

[mcnaughty]

Draw reins ;-)

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Damned good riding, a good seat, quiet hands, a feel for a horse and patience.

Not as someone said above - putting your hands at your knees - utter tosh!

Alternatively you can go down Mcnaughty's route of Draw Reins If so then whack them on and hold on to them as tight as possible

 

[Blitzen]

Naughty naughty, mcnaughty!

 

[Tammytoo]

Unfortunately, with a riding school horse,you are on to a bit of a lot cause if he is not regularly and properly schooled by the instructors. With so many different people riding him the poor chap probably hasn't a clue what is needed or has given up trying and switched off. Could you find an freelance instructor who is prepared to give lessons on her own horse so that you can learn on a properly schooled horse?

 

[Luci07]

You can't. A horse going correctly in an outline is the outcome of a lot of training and building up the correct muscle, it's a result not a goal. When you start training babies, you do short sessions to build them up. Too much force and you have a sore, unhappy horse.

 

[guido16]

By encouraging a low head carriage. Do this by opening your hands and placing them down towards your knees.

Oh my god.

 

[Mongoose11]

Perhaps Equi is badly describing how to create an exaggerated inside bend rather than an outline which would be secondary?

Can anyone actually describe how, as in a process? I can only 'feel it' really and I have only been able to feel it for a short time since I have been working with a great trainer (previous hooner round the countryside)

 

[*hic*]

By encouraging a low head carriage. Do this by opening your hands and placing them down towards your knees.

Oh my god.

Not really worth an OMG There is no "one size fits all" solution and that method is a useful tool to have at your disposal for some horses at some stages of training, certainly one I've seen used by people who are almost certainly riding, competing and instructing at a higher level than you, or I, or many of the posters on this forum are likely to be able to aspire to

 

[Blitzen]

Hopefully Equi is joking...

 

[WestCoast]

I'm starting to wonder of this outline thing is all its cracked up to be.

As a teenager we'd never heard of it - horse got hacked out everywhere with lots of hills and logs to jump, which probably got his rear end under him nicely. Did pony club stuff and no one mentioned it although you kinda knew you he was going well if he was moving freely forwards and dropped his head, never dreamed of all this horrible tugging on the reins you see these days.

Drag hunted and team chased and, again, tugging on the reins reserved for moments of over excitement when horse was heading flat out towards immovable object.

I know, I know, I'm very ignorant but it all looks so artificial.

Paula

 

[pardalis]

I'm with you Paula. It certainly seems to be a fashion and a bit of an obsession and really something that shouldn't be focused on when schooling.
Lots of other things to perfect first and a horses head carriage along with how it holds itself will follow.

 

[Littlelegs]

An outline comes from a horse moving forwards, & working with its back end under it, using the back muscles. Although some horses look like they may be in an outline with their heads held in, the head has little to do with it. A horse in a correct outline ends up with its head in a certain position because of the rest of its body, not through just what you do with its head & the reins. Easiest thing to compare it too imo is ballet. You don't just one day stick on a pair of points to support your toes, & start dancing like darcy bussell (sp?). You spend years training the rest of your body to stretch & gain the correct muscles to allow you to place your weight on your toes & have your ankle straight. And a horse is similar. You spend years working the horse in a long low outline, & over those years you gradually ask the horse to work in a more rounded outline with a more upright head position. Now most horses can carry themselves in an upright round outline in the field for a few minutes, even as a foal. But to do it for a longer period, with the hindrance of a rider requires time to build the muscles. So I imagine that's why your instructor says the horse can't. And its something you need an instructor to show you on a horse that can do it. An easy way to tell if a horse is working in a proper outline, rather than just having its head held in place is to look at the poll. If a horse has its head upright & its neck arched, in a competition position, & its poll is lower than its neck, its not truly rounded & working properly. Other place to look is in front of the withers, the neck should go up, not down.

 

[showqa]

IMHO, you shouldn't even really be thinking about it. There's too much emphasis on where the head is rather than what is happening behind the saddle and the rider's leg. Essentially, for a horse to be in an outline it has to be working over its back, and from behind with it's pelvis tucked under. If the horse isn't engaged behind then there's no chance of a true outline being produced - only a false one, which is both pointless and dangerous to the muscular development of the horse. As another poster has said, it takes a long time for a horse to develop physically in this way. With my horse, I don't DO anything infront as such, I work the horse very much from behind, lots of transitions, getting him moving forward and in front of my leg and allowing with my hands. It's no coincidence that once he's properly working, he offers an outline naturally.

I would much rather see a horse in his natural outline but actually going forward and working correctly, than shuffling around with his head tucked in and his back end going nowhere.

 

[popeyesno1fan]

Unfortunately, with a riding school horse,you are on to a bit of a lot cause if he is not regularly and properly schooled by the instructors. With so many different people riding him the poor chap probably hasn't a clue what is needed or has given up trying and switched off. Could you find an freelance instructor who is prepared to give lessons on her own horse so that you can learn on a properly schooled horse?

Tammytoo, you have a very valid point, I see the local riding school ponies and you'd want a miracle for most of them, however, I took Cooper, my best horse ever, out of the riding school, and he transformed. He was in an outline after about two months, and had never been schooled properly before. (He was braindead in the ridingschool). I think he was grateful not to have anymore beginners on his back, he switched his brain back on for me.
Saying that, if the op only has the use of a riding school pony once a week, she is prob at nothing. the smallies will undo the good work.
Forcing it doesnt work, you really do need to get them using those hind quarters properly and it does come from there. xx

 

[Mythical]

A wise lady once told me "you don't ask for the outline; the horse gives you the outline as a reward for riding well" sort of flowery but I like it.

Forget round for now and focus on getting the horse forward, straight and bendy in the corners. An RS horse may or may not tuck his nose in for you but you'll be better equipped to get your own horse into that nice shape in the future. If you're already working with your own horse, it'll soon start to drop into that nice round shape, but believe me, it's much easier with an instructor to help!

FWIW, it IS possible to get a RS horse into an outline; I know, I've done it, but that was THAT horse, at THAT RS, chosen because I'd spoken to and listened to my instructor about my riding goals and worked with them both to achieve it.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Could we have some photo examples of good and bad outlines please?

 

[wench]

Horse not forced to "soon" come into a "proper" outline. I had one of my previous horses five years, and it was only really working at the end as I had a couple of lessons from a dressage instructor.

I needed loads more, but horse was on livery at an rs, so no external instructors

 

[georgiegirl]

You just stick a bubble bit in and wiggle your hands about innit?!?!

Seriously though.....if its not something you have worked toward before you need to find a good instructor to help you along the way and an even bigger advantage is if you can have a sit on an experienced horse a few times in order to get the feel of what your meant to be feeling for!

 

[showpony]

Hold contact and push horse into bridle by resisting and using your seat!

 

[AprilBlue]

yh i agree with all of you lot, thanks for the replies.

unfortunately he isn't my horse and i don't even own a horse so i can't really work with him as much as i would like to

in my riding school, we have only one instructor that teaches my lesson and i don't think she really cares (if thats the right word:s) about dressage only because my yard is more of a showjuming yard but i'm not saying she doesn't know much about dressage please don't get me wrong but i don't want to move RS and in my lessons we don't really do dressage or anything like that, even though i suggest it after every lesson *sigh*

remember that my lesson has only 1 available instructor

thanks for the replies

 

[Tiasmum]

Sorry if I repeat anything, haven't read all the replies.

Working on the bit isn't about where the head is, it's about the entire body. The aim being to engage hindquarters and lighten the forehand. If the behind isn't engaged all you'll have is a forced outline and taking short cuts. I think to often instructors can have you working a horse in an outline but don't explain why or how the horse is supposed to be working.

Warm up - concentrate on a good rhythm and suppleness on both reins ensuring that the pace is nice and forward. energy. Suppleness - 10m circles, serpentines.

Then start with Transitions - walk to trot, halt (square) to trot leg yielding out from a 10m in walk and trot as you hit the track and so on. This can also be done in sitting trot.

When the horse is working correctly you can ask for an outline, hard work for a horse so keep it short.

 

[WestCoast]

No one ever tells us how to get a good outline past the invisible school corner monster.

Is moving sideways and snorting like a dragon compatible with correct head and hind end carriage?

Paula

 

[cheeryplatypus]

You have to really hold your core muscles and sit down properly while asking your horse to work forward...it's hard!

 

[showpony]

[
agree

aQUOTE=Tiasmum;11050766]Sorry if I repeat anything, haven't read all the replies.

Working on the bit isn't about where the head is, it's about the entire body. The aim being to engage hindquarters and lighten the forehand. If the behind isn't engaged all you'll have is a forced outline and taking short cuts. I think to often instructors can have you working a horse in an outline but don't explain why or how the horse is supposed to be working.

Warm up - concentrate on a good rhymth and suppleness on both reins ensuring that the pace is nice and forward. energy. Suppleness - 10m circles, serpentines.

Then start with Transitions - walk to trot, halt (square) to trot leg yielding out from a 10m in walk and trot as you hit the track and so on. This can also be done in sitting trot.

When the horse is working correctly you can ask for an outline, hard work for a horse so keep it short.[/QUOTE]

 

[Luci07]

No one ever tells us how to get a good outline past the invisible school corner monster.

Is moving sideways and snorting like a dragon compatible with correct head and hind end carriage?

Paula

So when my youngster decides there are mythical dragons lurking in an innocent corner of the school, he will be asked to do something like a shoulder in or quarters out. Same on a hack. Gives him something else to think about!

Some very good explanations here. If you want to see a good outline watch some of our top level dressage riders, in fact the para riders prob show the best example as they can't simply haul in their horses front end. As I said before, an outline is a result not a goal. The horse is in a balanced rhythm, coming through from behind into your contact and you can see that the back looks soft and connected. A bad outline. Easy. Horse has head tucked in but looks to have the rest of its body trailing miles away and unconnected. I could show you this on my old mare. Due to arthritis in her neck, she is physically unable to soften into the contact and use herself properly. If you put your leg on she will actually drop heed head into a false outline but its not through all her body as she just can't do it. She is ridden off the seat on a light loose contact but at 24, this is what works best for her.