How do you manage Navicular?

[Illusion100]

As title,

if your horse, or a horse you've known has either been diagnosed or suspected of having Navicular, what treatment/management steps have been undertaken/advised and how well have each of them worked out short/long term?

Thanks.

 

[Equi]

I had a horse on loan who gradually went lamer and lamern and imean the very slightest lame you could imagine. All tests came back with nothing so i told owner and she said i was "making it up to avoid riding" cause i had nerve issues. I knew he was not right cause I rode him at as fast as he would go on the beach, and videoed it. Showed said video to several professional people who all said he was lame (VERY subtle but to someone in the know, or those who notice, it was obvious and i knew!) Had about three saddles fitted, teeth done, physio several times.

Eventaully after about a year of all this and barely any riding (bar the "test" rides") i got his owner to take him back (and funny enough she now believes he is lame)

Been put down to navicular from all.

He is currently retired in a field.

A person i know has an ex-comp/sj horse who had navi and she had him denerved. he is working again but honestly i think its disgusting.

 

[ycbm]

Horse one. Adequan, tildren, bar shoes and rest all failed. Lame for two years. Barefoot rehab sound in twelve weeks. Still sound after five years winning at showing and dressage and occasionally hunting.

Horse two. Bar shoes and long term rest with no shoes. Lame for four years. Barefoot rehab sound in twelve weeks. Put down for completely unrelated issues.

Horse three constantly pointing, but no formal diagnosis. Barefoot rehab. BE Novice after nine months. Died of colic seven years later.

Horse four not navicular but unsound on stones and about to be shod with pads. Barefoot rehab. Sound on stones in sixteen weeks. Still sound afaik.

Horse five, earlier than the ones above. Isoxuprine, bar shoes, rest. Failed. Loss of use claim paid out and horse returned to previous owners as a paddock ornament.

Horse six, diagnosis by MRI. Horse already barefoot prescribed bar shoes and given very poor prognosis of return to full work by a top three vet hospital. Sent instead to Rockley Farm. Sound in eight weeks and for the subsequent three years

Horse seven, bone spur on navicular bone. Barefoot rehab, never came sound I work. Put down.

These are the ones I have been personally involved with. I know of dozens more and barefoot rehab vastly, enormously, hugely, stunningly, outperforms conventional treatments. To such an extent that I think it is negligence that the majority of the veterinary profession are still taking no notice, and people are having to get their advice from forums like this instead

 

[Marlow]

I have a Belgian WB with early stages Navicular. She presented lame in walk after travelling to a show about 7 months ago. Left her off for about 2 weeks, had shoes done again, discussed with farrier re corrective trimming and started her on Glucosamine (high concentrate). Within 2 weeks she was back out jumping with no lameness. every so often she will nod slightly when first started in walk but will quickly become totally sound.

Noticing it early Glucosamine and a good farrier

 

[ycbm]

Marlow can I ask how the diagnosis was done? I am interested because your horse's symptoms don't seem to me to be typical of navicular, and its the first time I've heard of using glucosamine to treat it. I can't help wondering if she really has navicular, where the lameness is nearly always caused by soft tissue damage inside the foot, and not by bone irregularities shown on x rays.

I'd also advise you, in the hope of preventing you future stress, to check that your mare is landing flat or very slightly heel first on a flat hard surface. Because if she is landing toe first, then it's likely that damage is still occurring and she will go lame again in future. The nod in walk which wears off with exercise would really worry me

Sorry if this is too much interference, feel free to ignore me.

 

[charliecrisps]

I had a horse on loan with navicular. Was told no jumping/ impact & daily bute. He was fine as happy hacker & never went lame

 

[Regandal]

Warmblood, sj, diagnosed at 8 with severe navicular disease. MRI. Treated conventionally, failed. Turned away for 4 years, rehomed as a happy hacker. DIY barefoot rehab, much improved, only hampered by sidebone and ringbone. Managed with turmeric and boswellia. Total change in demeanour. Pain does horrible things to horses.

 

[Marlow]

ycbm are you a vet?

I trust my vet wholeheartedly to give me professional advice and diagnosis and my farrier too for that matter. I have read a lot about Navicular and Glucosamine is mention a lot! It was my vet who recommended it. She is 14yrs old and loves her job, she will tell me when enough is enough, I don't mask it with pain relief. One foot bigger than the other, lower heal on one foot, placing foot out in front, resting foot......my vet is happy to leave her as is just now but will xray if persistent lameness reoccurs, all the symptoms point to Navicular but if you know what it is feel free to diagnose!

 

[stencilface]

I'll be honest Marlow, your mare sounds like she's heading for more lameness. I say this only as someone with a similar aged horse who I'm currently trying to rehab after a DDFT injury and navicular bursitis. He's booked into Rockley for bf rehab, but I am going to put wedge heels on short term until then just to relieve his immediate discomfort.

I'll be honest, most vets aren't that clued up about a lot of foot injuries, foot balance, the importance of walking properly and how bf can help most of the above. Many farriers also aren't that sympathetic to the method. Our farrier is excellent for shod horses, but I'm not sure he would be keen to do this.

 

[ester]

Given the mystery surrounding how glucosamine molecules (large) can actually get uptaken by the gut, and then magically find their was to the affected joints I can't imagine it makes a blind bit of difference to navicular.

Marlow if your horse is still toe pointing (placing foot out in front) then the horse is not comfortable, I assume from your posts that no xray and no MRI has been done. Given that navicular is more of a 'syndrome' than a defined issue there could me many things going on soft tissue or bone wise to produce your horse's symptoms. Is it the foot with the lower heel that she points?

 

[Annagain]

Mine went properly lame 7 yrs ago after months (with hindsight!) of telling me that jumping was hurting. All symptoms of navicular but when x-rayed, one of the three indicators they look for was borderline, the other two completely clear. Vet thought it probably was but we'd caught it very early.

I read so much (in fact joined here to ask questions and get more info) I almost had too much info and really couldn't see the wood for the trees. I didn't know what to do, but in the end opted for remedial shoeing on the grounds that he's terrible if he loses a shoe so the transition period terrified me. I thought it would probably suit him better to keep the barefoot as a last resort rather that than the other way round.

He had 6 months in the field (was sound after about 6 weeks) and came back into work. The vet said I could jump him but it might 'shorten his career'. I don't (other than the odd log out hacking or 3 or 4 jumps on fun rides a few times a year) but not really directly due to the lameness. It's more that he was never the sort of horse who was easy to jump - he got very excited and needed very strong riding - and after several falls (not his fault I know) my confidence was shot. I also felt I couldn't ride him the way he needed riding knowing it could be hurting him and I have a share horse I can jump so can get my fix elsewhere.

He's never had a day's lameness since coming back into work other than a touch of thrush once. I was half expecting a recurrence - and fully prepared to try barefoot if that happened - but he's 19 now and we've not had any issues *touch wood*.

 

[Buddy'sMum]

My vet was convinced my (then) 19-year old had navicular and wanted to refer him for a full work up, x-rays etc. I opted to have his shoes removed and turn him away for a while first, because (a) my OH was very ill at the time and I couldn't deal and (b) his hoof balance was all kinds of wrong and I wanted to see how lame he was once his hooves had had some time sans shoes. He was sound within a month so I sacked the farrier and got stuck into bringing him back into work. He's now 24 and still completely sound.

 

[ladyt25]

Horse one. Adequan, tildren, bar shoes and rest all failed. Lame for two years. Barefoot rehab sound in twelve weeks. Still sound after five years winning at showing and dressage and occasionally hunting.

Horse two. Bar shoes and long term rest with no shoes. Lame for four years. Barefoot rehab sound in twelve weeks. Put down for completely unrelated issues.

Horse three constantly pointing, but no formal diagnosis. Barefoot rehab. BE Novice after nine months. Died of colic seven years later.

Horse four not navicular but unsound on stones and about to be shod with pads. Barefoot rehab. Sound on stones in sixteen weeks. Still sound afaik.

Horse five, earlier than the ones above. Isoxuprine, bar shoes, rest. Failed. Loss of use claim paid out and horse returned to previous owners as a paddock ornament.

Horse six, diagnosis by MRI. Horse already barefoot prescribed bar shoes and given very poor prognosis of return to full work by a top three vet hospital. Sent instead to Rockley Farm. Sound in eight weeks and for the subsequent three years

Horse seven, bone spur on navicular bone. Barefoot rehab, never came sound I work. Put down.

These are the ones I have been personally involved with. I know of dozens more and barefoot rehab vastly, enormously, hugely, stunningly, outperforms conventional treatments. To such an extent that I think it is negligence that the majority of the veterinary profession are still taking no notice, and people are having to get their advice from forums like this instead

What if the horse has been diagnosed with damage to the DDFT on both fronts - affecting the navicular bursa and navicular bone SINCE having been barefoot for 2 years (in an attempt to rectify previous tendon/ligament problems)?

If the horse remains barefoot isn't this just going to make the condition worse?

 

[Illusion100]

Thanks for the replies.

The mare in question is currently going down the barefoot/correcting hoof balance path over winter and then re-evaluated for improvement in Spring. She is a happy hacker and is ridden lightly a couple of times a week at most and is a very good doer. Keeping her in light work (along with forage management) was advised to help her loose weight to alleviate that aspect, now I'm not sure if she should just be field rested until Spring?

She is also quite footy over stony ground and dislikes hard surfaces, looks to walk on grass where possible. Laminitis is not suspected but hasn't been entirely ruled out either. Quite capable of cantering across field in a spritely fashion at tea time when the feed bucket is spotted.

Was also wondering if some natural dietary supplements that assist circulation might be worth a go?

 

[Annagain]

Thanks for the replies.

The mare in question is currently going down the barefoot/correcting hoof balance path over winter and then re-evaluated for improvement in Spring. She is a happy hacker and is ridden lightly a couple of times a week at most and is a very good doer. Keeping her in light work (along with forage management) was advised to help her loose weight to alleviate that aspect, now I'm not sure if she should just be field rested until Spring?

She is also quite footy over stony ground and dislikes hard surfaces, looks to walk on grass where possible. Laminitis is not suspected but hasn't been entirely ruled out either. Quite capable of cantering across field in a spritely fashion at tea time when the feed bucket is spotted.

Was also wondering if some natural dietary supplements that assist circulation might be worth a go?

I've been feeding my lot turmeric. I was very sceptical (always am about this sort of thing) but it's cheap enough so thought I'd give it a go. I think it is making a bit of a difference.

 

[rara007]

Duplicate

 

[rara007]

We've had two. One was way too far gone so was shot. Mine has had in no particular order- barefoot rehab, careful rather than corrective shoeing, tildren, navicular bursa steroid and HA injections. He's still lame (other issues confounding it too) and he has his last chance on Saturday to see if he's happy on bute but if not sadly after a year of trying everything he will be put down too.

 

[tallyho!]

I went down the remedial route and it just got worse over the course of two years. Tried barefoot as a last resort. Sound in three months. Dressage schooling on paddock/lessons in school by 6 months and xc at 8 months.

I don't know why bf is not thought of as 1st line... I guess it's still a grey area in terms of research and navicular isn't a disease as such it's more of a issue that can be caused by a number of things in the navicular area of the hoof e.g. contraction, constriction (boxy hooves), overflexion, impingement (flat heels) or physical damage to the bone or tendons.

There is a lot out there now. I think Rockley should no longer be ignored by veterinarians and farriers and be taken into consideration at least.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think Insurance plays a part tallyho ,
The vets know they have to spend within a year if the horse is insured .
If I had a horse in this situation I would remove it shoes get it moving and I would take to the beach and lead it on the sand as much as I could .
And I would have it treated with Tildren or similar and have the steroid jab into the bursa if apporaiate.
I think modern drugs and BF might a powerful way to deal with this issue .

 

[tallyho!]

I think Insurance plays a part tallyho ,
The vets know they have to spend within a year if the horse is insured .
If I had a horse in this situation I would remove it shoes get it moving and I would take to the beach and lead it on the sand as much as I could .
And I would have it treated with Tildren or similar and have the steroid jab into the bursa if apporaiate.
I think modern drugs and BF might a powerful way to deal with this issue .

My insurers were fine about bf as long as the vet recommends it. The farrier was obviously dead against it but vet was willing to work with a trimmer (had to be LANTRA approved). As it happens, once he was sound I hardly ever called the vet so I guess there is a loss of earnings associated with sound horses

The beach is such a good idea. I know people who have made a sandy/pea gravel bed to simulate a beach!

 

[ycbm]

We've had two. One was way too far gone so was shot. Mine has had in no particular order- barefoot rehab, careful rather than corrective shoeing, tildren, navicular bursa steroid and HA injections. He's still lame (other issues confounding it too) and he has his last chance on Saturday to see if he's happy on bute but if not sadly after a year of trying everything he will be put down too.

The barefoot rehab alone could have taken a year in a really bad case, unless you had access to a perfect track system. I completely understand you deciding enough is enough, but I don't think you can really say that a barefoot rehab has failed, sorry if that sounds harsh, some horses are much more difficult than others and some are just incurable

 

[ycbm]

What if the horse has been diagnosed with damage to the DDFT on both fronts - affecting the navicular bursa and navicular bone SINCE having been barefoot for 2 years (in an attempt to rectify previous tendon/ligament problems)?

If the horse remains barefoot isn't this just going to make the condition worse?

No. Barefoot horses get navicular just the same way shod horses get navicular, only less often. It is caused by weakness in the back half of the foot, usually as a result of too little stimulation. (Though in your horse's case this could be as a result of the tendon problems).

So barefoot horses which live in too much for that particular horse, or who don't get enough ridden work, or whose feet don't tolerate less than perfect feeding, or who have metabolic issues, will get weak feet and are then prone to exactly the problems that cause lameness in shod horses.

The answer in all but the metabolic horses is the same as in the shod ones - work of the right kind and the right quantity, coupled often with allowing the horse to grow feet that balance whatever lack of straightness there is in its legs or body. That may mean actively resisting trimming, and working the horse on hard abrasive surfaces to get them to trim themselves, and accepting what may look like odd shaped feet as being what the horse needs.

If your horse was box rested for the tendon/ligament problems, then this will have increased the likelihood of ddft damage in the foot from a toe first landing, caused by weak heels, caused by the lack of stimulation of box rest. I feel for you, you have been caught between a rock and a hard place. I hope you manage to find a resolution.

 

[ycbm]

Illusion, I've had two that did not come sound with rest. It's my belief that this mare would have a better chance not only in work, but in a LOT more work than she is currently doing. My own general rule is work of an hour two days out of three, led in hand if not fit to ride.

 

[Illusion100]

Will pass all the experiences/advice on to Owner.

Getting to the beach may be tricky as no transport of their own but she's good to hack so can't see any reason why she can't get out either under saddle or in hand on the roads to self trim herself a bit, keep active and get the circulation going for a few hours a week.

 

[j1ffy]

Straight to Rockley once the lameness was correctly diagnosed. Sound within a month, barefoot, sound and in hard work for the four years since then

 

[Illusion100]

Will send her a link for Rockley as well.

For those who have used Rockley, is this covered under insurance?

 

[Clannad48]

DWB diagnosed with navicular 'syndrome' - xrays, mri's etc - tried medication, remedial shoeing nothing worked - decided as a last resort to try barefoot ans turn away for the winter (really thought I would prove a yard 'barefoot warrior' wrong - for the first three/four days a little footy, after 6 weeks sound on all ground - including gravel tracks - doing showjumping/xc and dressage within six months - 8 years later still barefoot/sound and competing at endurance up to 60km

 

[Goldenstar]

Will pass all the experiences/advice on to Owner.

Getting to the beach may be tricky as no transport of their own but she's good to hack so can't see any reason why she can't get out either under saddle or in hand on the roads to self trim herself a bit, keep active and get the circulation going for a few hours a week.

It's my belief they need to work on different surfaces .
So mine work on the road on the grass and in the sand and rubber school .
I have easy access to a beach which is great for BF horses it's supportive abrasive and the salt water is great for thrush and the like .
But of course you need to near enough to make it work .

 

[rara007]

The barefoot rehab alone could have taken a year in a really bad case, unless you had access to a perfect track system. I completely understand you deciding enough is enough, but I don't think you can really say that a barefoot rehab has failed, sorry if that sounds harsh, some horses are much more difficult than others and some are just incurable

He has confounding issues so by the time the year is up he'll be broken down with fetlock DJD He was always happy without shoes from day one and his feet didn't really need to change shape either. It ultimately made no difference either way. He was walking for an hour a day happy on all surfaces in straight lines, living in a gravel yard, still 1/10th lame right fore left rein.

 

[ycbm]

He has confounding issues so by the time the year is up he'll be broken down with fetlock DJD He was always happy without shoes from day one and his feet didn't really need to change shape either. It ultimately made no difference either way.

So sorry