How far in dressage can an ‘average’ amateur realistically get?

There isn't an answer...

I'd say I'm a good rider, living a very normal life, and I've managed to get a very ordinary (to me he is anything but, however in the realms of dressage...!) horse to Inter 2. We've had success at every level.

But I work my bum off. I do everything I feasibly can. I read I watch I learn every day. And I'm self taught. I cannot afford a horse with the buttons pre-installed, nor can I afford lessons 3 times a week.

I know people that think riding every day, or having a lesson before a competition, or buying the most expensive horse they can will get them 'there'. It won't, it comes down to much more than that. And it's not all about the magic 70%, if you get obsessed with scores, you'll never enjoy the journey.

And that's before you consider the variable of health, pot luck, facilities, jobs, time, money etc etc.

Ultimately, hard work and patience. But you have to enjoy it too.
 
oldie48 said:
I bobbled around quite happily UA and even did some elementary tests but looking back I realise that although in my head we were doing the movements, actually we weren't and a half decent judge, even UA would knock the marks down (but not always!).
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I agree with this to a point. When an average jo bloggs horse and rider combination are scoring 72% at a prelim dressage test at the local competition centre I think the judges are just being kind any maybe even trying to encourage these people back again. And then when they qualify for a final, an example Trailblazers, the second round tests are judged so differently and much more harshly so I do think its a marketing ploy to an extent as its exactly the same judges.

I think the word is consistency. Ours were consistent scores of 65-67% at at least 4 different locations and with around seven or eight different judges. I also agree that a smart looking WB with presence can look impressive but any decent judge can see past this and look at the combination of rider and horse and if you are clever you can make up marks by riding accurately, perfecting your give and retake of the reins, making a balanced change of rein ATD showing some lengthened strides, and making your entrance and halt extra good. I guess I have always thought of it a bit like showing as in you make the best of what isn't good about you and your horse and show off the bits that are good. But I never worried if I didn't get placed, just learned by my mistakes and tried to do better the next time. I am no where near an expert just an 'average' rider having fun.
 
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Personally, the first horse I took to GP was a random TB cross, the next two were warmbloods. But two important things here, one is that a warmblood is not a magic potion, there are plenty of warmbloods with bad conformation, bad attitudes, not much movement etc, warmblood does not equal magical dressage unicorn. Secondly, riders who blame their lack of progress, or who are defeated before they start because their horse is "ordinary" or non warmblood, its rubbish frankly. Plenty of people get to high levels on non warmbloods, a friend of mine is currently competing at GP on a Welsh Section D, she is there because of good training.

Having said that, it absolutely helps if the horses physicality is suited to the job, irrespective of breeding, and most importantly the horses mental attitude has to be trainable, these are the essential things, not just the breeding. Also if you have the funds for the fancy warmblood with fabulous movement, you still have to ride and train it, and if the higher levels are your goal you will be spending a lot of time and effort with your horse, so choose one you want to be with, one that you enjoy working with, and whose mentality suits yours, not a horse that scares you or irritates you, or that simply doesnt suit your lifestyle or your way of working.

The aspect of feeling intimidated by others at shows, I'm afraid that never goes away, you have to learn to block it out, you may feel you are on a native pony, scruffy trailer etc and you are drowning in a sea of bling and sparkling warmbloods, but its all relative, someone who hasnt got transport and a sound horse is envious of you. I think its vital to be able to focus on yourself, your horse and your journey, anything else simply isnt relevant. I competed at some Premier Leagues this summer, and you really are surrounded by unbelievable wealth and advantage there, pop out lorries, multiple expensive horses, grooms, trainers in the warm up, the very best of everything, and it feels very intimidating, and I had to have a word with myself to not get sucked into thinking that way. I reminded myself how much I love my horse, and how proud I am of our journey and what we have achieved together, and if I had told my younger self that I would be doing all this, she wouldnt believe it, and she certainly wouldnt be stressing over what someone else had, its all about the mental game.
 
daffy44 said:
I reminded myself how much I love my horse, and how proud I am of our journey and what we have achieved together, and if I had told my younger self that I would be doing all this, she wouldnt believe it, and she certainly wouldnt be stressing over what someone else had, its all about the mental game.
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Love this <3

it's so true. And yes, I look back and remember how long I scraped along without transport and having to borrow equipment etc and can't believe my luck now to be able to take a horse out to a show or lesson whenever I fancy (within budget constraints! ;) ) it's fabulous and I love every minute of it. Well most minutes anyway :p
 
All who have said how long is a piece of string are correct but also as well as the going up the levels question its also what are you aiming at. You may wish to get a top 10 at regional silver for example...and that may well take you two years rather than say 6 months. I think its about setting the goals you want for you and your horse....and having steps along the way. I wouldn't limit yourself to think of there being an end you couldn't ever achieve...
 
PS it's put into perspective that at one stage I felt unhappy with high 60's (comparative to low 70's) and now I would do anything to be competing Figgle again. But he's happy chilling :)
 
Yes MP, it really is all relative! I remember warming up at the Winters last year, and I was in the warm up for the Gold AM Music with Lizzie Murray, Alice Oppenheimer and Emily Harris, all on super posh horses, all with flags on their jackets and all with amazing trainers (their parents!) on their ear pieces. I was there alone, on my horse that I bought when he was two weeks old, and for a moment I thought what on earth am I doing here??? If I had stayed with that thought I would have shriveled and died, but instead, I felt so thankful to my incredible horse who had got me there, and the situation was so insane I just laughed and thought I may never be here again, so enjoy it, and I did. My horse was great, and I loved every second of that test, and came out on such a happy high, its still one of my all time favourite tests.
 
YorkshireLady said:
I wouldn't limit yourself to think of there being an end you couldn't ever achieve...
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Yes and no, for me YL

There are some ends I can't achieve with my current rides. I can't achieve a top 10 at silver regionals, ain't gonna happen, I haven't got the horsepower (did scrape a frilly at AM music but it's a different kind of competition ;))

I'd still be there, trying to get a Novice top 10... we did our Novice regionals in 2016 and having attended and not embarrassed ourselves, we abandoned that goal and trained up a bit. she's climbed up 5 or so levels since then which for me has been realistic and fun... I'd be miserable without the *right* goal.
My trainer helps to set my goals, he knows I am ambitious, knows the limitations that we have but that we work hard. So we set a score that would be a target at a level and go with that. Assessing progress against ourselves rather than others. That's as objective as you *can * be, I think, in a subjective sport.
 
Some really inspirational stories on here. Thanks for sharing.
Having lost my mare in her prime (we’d got to novice and had started eying up ele) I’m starting again on a lovely welshD. His confirmation is better for dressage, so I’m hoping to get to medium. As long as we both have fun, I’m still in seventh heaven when I can compete as that in itself was a life goal.
 
Thank you, very interesting experiences. My question about taking a horse to GP wasn't really about winning but just of taking him through the levels. With a generous young horse I find it difficult to know when to push him a bit and when to wait for him to develop more strength and maturity.
From what I gather, the most important is to find a good instructor/trainer, not necessarilly an easy task here as everyone is into show jumping.
 
Just to add we came 7th at the elementary gold regionals a few years back ?....



Ok ok it may have been a fluke of all the rule changes at the time, which meant only 8 entered and one was a no show, but still! Topaz doing her lap of honour behind all the very beautiful fancy horses is one of the funnest videos I have ?
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593958404123357
 
I would be happy with a good walk and trot test right now. After years of effort I felt I was finally getting somewhere from my Irish Bog horse. Then we had a really bad patch for no obvious reason. He was threatend seriously with the sack . Then I had the lesson I dreampt of with my instructor saying ,lets stop there because that last movement cant be improved on ,That afternoon I got a call that he was lame ,hooning about the field ,done SFtendon . Truth was he had been covering the injury , tried extra hard for me , a bit of a gallop in the field and bang. And I look at my more illustrious friends horses. C , a few points from PSG and horse fell apart for no obvious reason (PTS RIP). And then S , whos grandprix horse dropped off the drag curve. Dressage is so hard because it is a continual consistent effort to get to the top (or in my case the bottom).You can take a game horse and fire it around a metre 20 and lets face it,it barely has to fold its legs up. get a couple of good seasons and flog it . I used to think eventing was soul destroying ,but one has to be really hard core to survive in dressage.
 
See I knew that I could have added more to the post but was in my lunch break! I was using the regionals as an example of aims within a level as well as aims up the levels. That could have been AF...could have been Trailblazers....whatever goal suits the partnership. I know people that have gone trailblazer then AF then Regional....and there is nothing wrong with that within a level either as progression for them.

In relation to training i stand by having small step goals rather than a big bang at the end....and that you and your horse will probably surprise yourselves.
 
I can't add much, I'm a very normal rider with a cheap little ISH bimbling around at unaffiliated novice. I have no doubt that if I put as much work in as MP or NMT we could go further but we enjoy other things too, I have a demanding job and a long commute and I can't really afford to be out every week and travelling to stay away shows so our progress is slowed.

However if you want an example of how far an "ordinary rider" can go read this account of a cheap driving bred horse and a rider who had no intention of doing dressage. https://mrpresidentiv.wordpress.com/background/

https://www.britishdressage.co.uk/news/farewell-mr-president/
 
oldie48 said:
I think it's easy to fall into the trap that moving up a level is about the horse being able to do the required movements but it is so much more than that
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Absolutely - when I stopped "winging it" with Fergs and started having regular training he was working at medium, in that he had all the moves. Training never levelled him up, but it meant he went from doing things in a mostly recognisable fashion, to doing things consistently well (not my opinion - that of various trainers who judge at that level and higher). Because I stopped competing fairly soon after starting proper training, I can't "prove" that with competitive success, although even if we'd still competed I tend to fluff things under pressure so we probably wouldn't have done particularly well anyway!
 
What a great post! With all of this in mind, if you lot were after a new dressage prospect, likely a youngster with a small budget of say £3k, what would you look for breed wise? I’ve only ever had natives, I’d lean towards a sec D but interested in other people’s opinions.

I seriously lust after the sec B on Diamonds in the Rough but whilst short, I’d never be able to keep my weight low enough ;)
 
aajk said:
What a great post! With all of this in mind, if you lot were after a new dressage prospect, likely a youngster with a small budget of say £3k, what would you look for breed wise? I’ve only ever had natives, I’d lean towards a sec D but interested in other people’s opinions.

I seriously lust after the sec B on Diamonds in the Rough but whilst short, I’d never be able to keep my weight low enough ;)
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I love a Welsh, but some are very sharp, so I'd focus on personality. A trier will get you further than a good mover who won't try. I follow some who has a fabulous Irish cob - he's like a mini Valegro. I'd definitely consider one of those :)

Raf was my inspiration to get a smaller horse - 15.1 in my case but I'm a podge. My others were 17.2! I'm so grateful, good things come in small packages.
 
aajk said:
What a great post! With all of this in mind, if you lot were after a new dressage prospect, likely a youngster with a small budget of say £3k, what would you look for breed wise? I’ve only ever had natives, I’d lean towards a sec D but interested in other people’s opinions.

I seriously lust after the sec B on Diamonds in the Rough but whilst short, I’d never be able to keep my weight low enough ;)
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It depends what you like, your riding ability and how young, for 3k you could possibly find a PRE or a warmblood (or a cross of one of those breeds). I would probably go for a PRE for an "easier" horse and warmblood if you prefer a flashy horse. PRE will be nearer to a native to look after as they are generally good doers.
 
I'd go for a connie or a new forest. Ideally one of the very fancy german bred sports ponies, but they may be out of budget. You might be able to find a similar mix over here. Good quality native x warmblood/TB. If you stick to 14.2hh15hhs you get a lot more bang for your buck!
 
I had a ‘bred’ sports pony once. Amazing movement but brain over cooked. Backed by a pro, went wrong; I got her for a song and took two years turning her into relatively sane and reliable. She went to be a games pony in the end (and was apparently really good at that!) as she really didn’t like dressage.
 
Kat said:
However if you want an example of how far an "ordinary rider" can go read this account of a cheap driving bred horse and a rider who had no intention of doing dressage. https://mrpresidentiv.wordpress.com/background/

https://www.britishdressage.co.uk/news/farewell-mr-president/
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People like Steph are a great inspiration :)

aajk said:
What a great post! With all of this in mind, if you lot were after a new dressage prospect, likely a youngster with a small budget of say £3k, what would you look for breed wise? I’ve only ever had natives, I’d lean towards a sec D but interested in other people’s opinions.
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anything you like with a trainable brain. Like daffy said if you are a hobby rider especially, it's important that you like your horse and just enjoy having them around. The training and competition is almost secondary IMO. if you like natives then a nice trainable one with correct paces can go far (and you can do the native champs too ;)) or a partbred, welsh x TB is a nice mix and I have also had lots of fun with a cob x WB.
 
25 or so years ago I was riding at a riding school and the instructor said that any sound horse should be capable of doing a medium test - doesn't mean they will score highly but they should be able to do the movements. Things have moved on a lot since then but the basics remain the same and without them it doesn't matter what level you compete at you will probably be winging it if the fundamentals are not correct. For the 'average' rider I do think a forgiving horse with a trainable, sane brain is far more useful if you are wanting to move up the levels that a very flash moving warmblood who does not have such a good brain.

I have a homebred show jumper who is schooling at Inter 1 and I class myself as a very average rider but have been very fortunate to have a lot of help from a good friend. I surprised myself as previously I had ridden mainly at prelim/novice with a couple of elementary tests thrown in. The biggest jump I found was getting the single change established and then moving onto tempis so I do agree with my old trainer - medium is very achievable for the ordinary horse and rider.
 
My view is that advanced medium is a realistic goal. Beyond that I would say both horse and rider need to be fitter and devote more time both from day to day and in travelling and staying at competitions than is generally possible to fit around a non-horsy job/family etc - which would be my idea of a typical amateur rider. The rider IMHO opinion would need, to be competitive above that level, to be riding and training a number of horses a day to have the relevant fitness and skills. I'm aware that many people who actually make their living from horses in some way still consider themselves to be "amateur". That wouldn't be my definition of a typical "amateur".
 
i think that depends where you live, Leandy.
From sunny Gloucestershire, there are shows up to GP within an hour's drive in most directions, several times a month. I have expected to need to travel more and stay away more often since mine got to small tour but even dreaming about continuing up the levels looks quite possible without too much extra driving. I know it's not the same across the country (one reason why I never want to move!)

I def agree I'd be doing a better job if I had more than one horse to ride at this level but I would hate for someone to think there was no point if they didn't have a stable full. It also depends what you consider to be "competitive". Getting a nice score in your section at an ordinary show is quite achievable :)
 
I agree with those that have said there is no reason a sound horse should not be able to go out and ride a respectable Medium test (nice little challenge I have just set myself there :oops:).
However I also think it very much depends on what your focus is. If you want to chase frillies at Nationals you could spend a lifetime at Novice and never get there. Personally I think if I was consistently scoring 65% or more I want to move up a level but that's not for everyone.
 
Yeah I agree Roxyola, for my welshie I expect to be able to get a mid 60s when we move up a level (shows we were about ready to try) and we work up to high 60s with practice :p she's progressed at a fairly consistent rate with these parameters so we have done regionals and area festivals at a new level each year, pretty much. I'd be deluded if I thought we were nationals material but its been fun and rewarding anyway :) comes back to the realistic goals thing.
 
Roxylola said:
However I also think it very much depends on what your focus is. If you want to chase frillies at Nationals you could spend a lifetime at Novice and never get there. Personally I think if I was consistently scoring 65% or more I want to move up a level but that's not for everyone.
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Absolutely - being more interested in the training than the competing, I was always wanting to "play" at higher level stuff rather than chasing perfection in lower level work (although there is a balance between achieving quality / correctness and not just winging it wildly!). It's all a matter of priorities and perspective.
 
A question if I may, What is the trigger that makes you more up a level it is consistently getting a certain score?

I have an ex racer excellent confirmation for TB . We have no medium trot. Various trainers over the year have tried I have utube and read everything tried every thing and still nothing. He is 12 in Feb. I am competing aff ele with scores around 62-65 he is accurate but can be behind the leg (very lazy). I believe ele is are ceiling but reading all this has encouraged me to not stop trying.

I also own a 3 yrs old WB that has been professional backed he will be hacked for the next year until he is 4 then will be sent away again for a few weeks professional schooling. I brought him as I thought my TB would stop at ele and I love schooling and want to try harder but didn't want to push the tb.

I work full time, horses on DIY can only afford a lesson once a month at them moment as paying for the WM backing. I ride at least 4 days a week. I love competing my boy even when he loses his little tb mind.
 
Medium trot is only 2 marks, fake it a bit if he could do all the other medium movements have a crack at it. I think it helps to be consistently working the level above at home as well.
He's hardly old though, you've time to play yet
 
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