How hard is it to actually have your horse PTS.

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Alphamare

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I can't work out how to word the title better so I hope people read this. The PTS measfan thread, I hope I've spelt that right, is very interesting.

Last couple of posts though have got me thinking. There are many scenarios where an owner may have decided to PTS where the vets wanted to keep treating.

Not having had to have done it myself yet I got to wondering, especially if you have a horse that might be sound of body but not sound of mind say...

How hard (difficult) is it to have a horse PTS. Surely it's the owners call or are there one million hoops to jump through? Is it any different using a knackerman or the local hunt rather than a vet?

Sometimes the horse suffers because we are not prepare or the decision is waylaid so perhaps those who may know could enlighten me and everyone else. It may one day make the process easier and smoother for someone if they know what they are dealing with.

I have for example my vets number (of course who doesn't!) but also the local knackermans number who has an excellent reputation... Just incase I get need it. Then I am not panicking and scrambling to find the right numbers
 
my beautiful Big Ruby was PTS on Feb 14th this year - i had made the decision several weeks before hand - after discussion with the vet - we were managing her pain with bute & she was comfortable but we were struggling to keep weight on her & as a bigger older horse - it just felt like the right time - she went to the hunt - they were respectful & kind, my last memory of her was her standing at the hunt yard with her head in a feed bowl - it was a dignified end when she still looked good & was a fitting end to a splendid horse - i would happily go down that route again
 
I would always choose the needle. Both methods CAN go wrong, though thankfully quite rarely. Both methods are humane but if it DID go wrong, I would rather have to inject twice than shoot twice.
 
I had my old mare pts just over a year ago. It was something I had always dreaded, I had her 21 years. She was poorly, showing spasmodic colic sypmtoms, not eating/drinking and depression. She was treated for 3 days with no improvement. I don't live on the yard and I couldn't bare the thought of her being alone at night thrashing around with full blown colic even though I checked her regulary.
On her final day when she heard me she shouted loudly and I knew she had had enough. The vet asked me what I thought and I said I didn't think she was going to get better and she agreed with me so she was PTs.
It wasn't awful as I know it was the best for her and she wanted to go.
I hindsight I wish I hadn't listened to the vet on the first night as I was expecting her to go then but she said to keep going with treatment.

Basically what I am trying to say is I knew she had had enough so the decision/process was a lot easier than expected.
 
Having had one pts with a needle never ever again. Was horrendous to see. Personally I'd call my local hunt as I know the people, they know him etc
 
My Tb had a belly full of tumours all around his bladder and waterworks inside. he was 20 , i decided to pts very soon after finding out because i didnt want to see him suffer.they offered surgery but it wouldnt have cured him. im lucky my friend has her own land and a horsey graveyard at one side overlooking a beautiful valley , my vet was totally fine with me wanting to pts sooner rather than later and we did it on a sunny day in a field he knew with me holding his leadrope until the very end.it was dignified and i know i did the right thing. i miss him every day but i remember him as a stunning very majestic horse not a sick shadow of his former glorious self
 
Wagtail said:
I would always choose the needle. Both methods CAN go wrong, though thankfully quite rarely. Both methods are humane but if it DID go wrong, I would rather have to inject twice than shoot twice.
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Now i'm the opposite.
I have had it done both ways, and will now always chose a bullet over a needle.
But then I have always have a top notch knackerman do the deed and as he does it day in and day out he knows his job and carrys it out exceedingly well.
 
Our equine vet is actually very good himself, & even when its another vet from his practice ime they seem to have been grounded in his ethics. Just recently I've rang to arrange pts for 3 seperate friends so they could avoid having to debate it with an unsympathetic vet. Whilst all 3 owners would be there at the end, it was really an act of friendship in helping them make unpleasant arrangements for destruction & removal, not avoidance of the job itself. Maybe because the vets knew the history of all, the discussion was only for the time of pts, no mention of yes or no.
The first horse I saw pts in my teens fought for a long time (different vets) & really did take a stressful & horribly long time to die, which led me to choose the hunt for my own. Seen pts be done correctly since but have a tainted view & would choose the hunt for mine again, who don't debate it ime.
 
In the other thread a vet nurse made a comment about how vets won't just PTS anymore until all the options have been utilised. Its on the last page (17) and its partly why I asked. Do they really try and make you jump through hoops when you are trying to do the best by your equine friend. Do they really think people just willy nilly PTS!?

What if you had a physically sound horse but not mentally so and wanted to PTS. Or in our case an older horse who one day I will make the decision to let go BEFORE she gets stiff and sore, or skinny, or colicky etc.

What happens then. I would hate to imagine coming to the decision and then being thwarted or given the run around or not being "allowed" to do what's best for the horse. If vets are really that bad about it are the knackerman better?
 
Alphamare said:
I can't work out how to word the title better so I hope people read this. The PTS measfan thread, I hope I've spelt that right, is very interesting.

Last couple of posts though have got me thinking. There are many scenarios where an owner may have decided to PTS where the vets wanted to keep treating.

Not having had to have done it myself yet I got to wondering, especially if you have a horse that might be sound of body but not sound of mind say...

How hard (difficult) is it to have a horse PTS. Surely it's the owners call or are there one million hoops to jump through? Is it any different using a knackerman or the local hunt rather than a vet?

Sometimes the horse suffers because we are not prepare or the decision is waylaid so perhaps those who may know could enlighten me and everyone else. It may one day make the process easier and smoother for someone if they know what they are dealing with.

I have for example my vets number (of course who doesn't!) but also the local knackermans number who has an excellent reputation... Just incase I get need it. Then I am not panicking and scrambling to find the right numbers
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do you mean can a vet refuse to put a horse to sleep because they feel it is not the right choice? or are you asking which method is best?
if the latter then really it is personal choice and some will say the bullet is less traumatic and others will say the injection. Personally i think it really is such an individual thing that you have to go with your gut feeling at the time. when my TB broke her leg she was already on the floor in shock so i chose the injection as it just seemed more peaceful, but if i had a horse who was up on its feet and possibly distressed i would go for the bullet , it's not the nicest sight for the owner but the quickest for the horse IMHO.
 
Wagtail- without going into too much graphic detail, the adrenaline rush from fighting the first injection will effect the second too so that & even the third injection don't take immediate effect. Whereas I'd assume a second bullet would take immediate effect regardless.
 
My vets once told me that its not a decision they will make.
They will advise, but its ultimately the owners choice to pursue treatment or PTS.
If the owner wants to PTS then they will do so.
And these days I think vets are very clued up about animals that have a limited quality of life or problems that would mean them being passed piller to post being PTS as it in the animals best interests.
 
I cannot see how any vet can make that decision over the legal owner. As you say often it is more than just being able to further medicate/treat. I have made that decision in the past when I considered enough was enough for a horse to be put through. I personally would always choose the bullet, but needs must in some circumstances. We must always put the horse first and our feelings on back burner if necessary. Suffering in my opinion is far worse than a trip over rainbow bridge.
 
Alphamare said:
In the other thread a vet nurse made a comment about how vets won't just PTS anymore until all the options have been utilised. Its on the last page (17) and its partly why I asked. Do they really try and make you jump through hoops when you are trying to do the best by your equine friend. Do they really think people just willy nilly PTS!?

What if you had a physically sound horse but not mentally so and wanted to PTS. Or in our case an older horse who one day I will make the decision to let go BEFORE she gets stiff and sore, or skinny, or colicky etc.

What happens then. I would hate to imagine coming to the decision and then being thwarted or given the run around or not being "allowed" to do what's best for the horse. If vets are really that bad about it are the knackerman better?
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I think some vets are partly also scientists so they have a part of them saying drugs or scrience can cure the horse and want to go on treating until there is nothing left to treat with. If I had a vet like that then I would choose the hunt or a knackerman as they are very good and know their job. Its not a nice decision to be making but if you do have a vet who does not agree with your wishes ite that or change vet which in itself is not always easy.
 
I think a vet can say no if he feels it's the wrong decision and morally he doesn't think the horse should be killed. A knacker man in my experience won't even ask, his job is to end the horse's life not to try and treat it....
 
joeanne said:
My vets once told me that its not a decision they will make.
They will advise, but its ultimately the owners choice to pursue treatment or PTS.
If the owner wants to PTS then they will do so.
And these days I think vets are very clued up about animals that have a limited quality of life or problems that would mean them being passed piller to post being PTS as it in the animals best interests.
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I'd second this, plus sometimes in the current financial climate it just isn't feasable for some owners to pursue treatment.

Vets will pts healthy but unwanted animals pretty often too, I'm sure they don't like doing it but sometimes there are no alternatives.

The local knackerman will always pts without asking questions too.
 
I think there's also the matter of insurance that crops up too, as unless you have vets permission, you will not (afaik) be able to claim for the loss.

I prefer injection, never had/seen it go wrong, and I am not a hunt follower/supporter so I could never go down that route. Yes knackermen do it every day, but I trust my vet :)
 
a bloke i know had two perfectly healthy 6 yr old tb brood mares put down last year as they were* surplus to requirements* vet was fine with it i wasnt as both were sweet natured and nice hacks , but its his property to do with what he pleases
 
I was asking both questions do all the answers are very helpful to me, and hopefully others reading.

I do know as much that a knackerman PTS for a living so may have more experience doing it than a vet although with the different methods used there is still a choice there. I know this must have been asked before so thanks for going over it again for me
 
9yrs ago I made the decision to pts my daughters pony. She had severe copd, along with other medical problems. Her chest got so bad that I could not see her suffer any longer. Tbh once the decision had been made I felt a great sense of calm.

I had her pts by bullet - they were very good & took her down the the wagon & did it there while my friend stayed with her.

Both me & the daughter miss her tons but I still feel I made the right decision.
 
I had to make that very difficult decision 2 weeks ago. My mare was diagnosed with serious navicular and collateral ligament damage, I was given 2options by my vet, to put to sleep or to try remedial shoeing...but she would never be able to be ridden again the shoes would cost £200 every 5 weeks just so she was comfortable enough to go out in the field :eek: I was in turmoil with what to do as I felt I owed it to her to try the shoes but...I just couldnt afford that on top of her livery etc for a field pet. I felt selfish thinking like that and I had already made my decision to PTS until...my lovely farrier offered to take her on and treat with her the shoes and keep her as a companion for him and his other horses (I know she will have a forever home with him and will always be looked after) I felt so happy that he was able to give her a second chance in life, with her new shoes on she is just so much happier, my farrier is also my yard manager so I still get to see her everyday. Even though I am so happy she didnt have to get PTS, part of me still feels guilty that I wasnt the one able to give that to her, still I'm getting ust to her not being myn anymore but I do feel really proud of myself that I gave her up so she could live on (she's only 14 too bless her)

I do soely believe everything happens for a reason and I no in time I will be able to give another horse a lovely home :) I know that is what my mare would want for me.
 
maggiehorse said:
a bloke i know had two perfectly healthy 6 yr old tb brood mares put down last year as they were* surplus to requirements* vet was fine with it i wasnt as both were sweet natured and nice hacks , but its his property to do with what he pleases
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They may well have been nice hacks, but ATM there is such a surplus of good horses that are failing to find good homes, that a high maintenance TB who needs restarting would possibly struggle and end up in a less than desirable home.
The owner of thse mares did the right thing by them IMO.
Unless you have been to the "dog end" sales, you will never know how much horses like those mares can suffer in te wrong hands.
 
I think that there are some vets who will want to continue treatment, regardless of the quality of life for the horse. We had one who suggested an op, with box rest in slings, for a 6 year old 17hh shire mare, who had foundered (was post mortem found to have cushings syndrome, missed by said vet!). We declined his offer and got our local knackerfirm out. We always use our local knacker firm. The owner is a friend of a friend and the whole setup is professional and excellent. There is never any argument (mind you we have never had one pts for anything other than humane grounds). The staff are very knowlegable about horses, the owner has ridden and competed all her life. They will often comment about how the horse must have been in their prime and are sad if the animal is going 'too soon', as in too ill at too young an age. I have the firms number in my phone and sadly have used it a fair few times over the years.
 
A vet will pts for any reason the legal owner gives. If the vet questions your decision to end your horses life because you want to prevent suffering then change vets, pronto!

The hunt / knackerman will not miss. It's more than their reputation is worth.

Having seen both hunt and PTS I would have the hunt. PTS is not always the peaceful 'going to sleep' that people imagine, whereas with the hunt you know what is going to happen, so you cannot be shocked by what you see.
 
joeanne said:
They may well have been nice hacks, but ATM there is such a surplus of good horses that are failing to find good homes, that a high maintenance TB who needs restarting would possibly struggle and end up in a less than desirable home.
The owner of thse mares did the right thing by them IMO.
Unless you have been to the "dog end" sales, you will never know how much horses like those mares can suffer in te wrong hands.
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I agree with joeanne on this. better a short life & a merry one than a long life in hell. The horse doesn't know what is going to happen so doesn't worry about it (plus there is no pain) but the ,perhaps alternative, life of hell it would certainly know about.
 
It was very hard and very easy to make the disision......our 25 year old went of his food, was generally not well and showed signs of colic but it was pain not "normal" colic. We took him to the vet hospital and after tummy tap and ultrasound came back clear and he still hadnt improved after 3 days the vet was talking about camra down thorat thats when we called it a day and the vet was in agreement as what ever we found we would have made the same choice anyway. Plus he wasnt insured so the credit c
 
I agree with joeanne too which is one of the reasons I asked as this get nurse seemed to think that charity or companion homes were preferable to PTS. Where as personally I wouldn't pass on a problem horse or a horse with problems and I would choose PTS as the responsible decision. Many on HHO don't agree with that though. I think POLLDARK is right too, the horse doesn't know it's been Pts. It would know about the life of pain and suffering though
 
lucky-lady said:
A vet will pts for any reason the legal owner gives. If the vet questions your decision to end your horses life because you want to prevent suffering then change vets, pronto!

The hunt / knackerman will not miss. It's more than their reputation is worth.

Having seen both hunt and PTS I would have the hunt. PTS is not always the peaceful 'going to sleep' that people imagine, whereas with the hunt you know what is going to happen, so you cannot be shocked by what you see.
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Don't vets have almost a 'duty' to try to do the best for an animal? Not sure but feel I have read that somewhere.

I have twice had to make the decision to PTS and neither time was my decision questioned. Both ponies were injected and went very quickly and peacefully.

I do remember our vet asking my mum if he could give her telephone number to another client who was wanting her horse PTS because it had developed sweet itch and said vet was very reluctant to PTS for that reason. At the time my mum had a stallion with sweet itch and vet asked if my mum would speak to her to explain that it was a mangeable condition rather than a death sentence. TBH I thought more of our vet for taking that attitude than putting down without questioning the owner's decision in those circumstances.
 
Another in agreement with Joanne, and I really like the phrase 'better a short life and a merry one'. Sums up how I feel about it all.
 
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