How heavy is too heavy?

[Onyxia]

Wow, 47 years of riding and the first time I've been called a horse abuser. although should strictly be pony abuser.
Just goes to prove you learn something new about yourself everyday.

Pants I did not mean that at all! My first responce was a giggle and aww

I just wanted to make the point that Wagtail and marmalade76 have choosen to slate a young girl who is unabe to defent herself at length ,but say nothing to the adults.



Although,now I look at it agin the pony clearly has spotted something cook off camera and you are preventing the pony from eating it- evil after all

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I dont really think anyone will agree on weights for horses.

If the horse isnt struggling, looking down/depressed or having back/joint problems then I cant see where the problem is personally.

From someone who has been told they are too fat for their horses many people need to think before they open their mouths. Not everyone needs their eyes opened, many people realise they are overweight and many people also have problems that others may never see or deal with.

Oh and calling people horse abusers IMO is a bit out of line. But then again just my views

 

[PaddyMonty]

Pants I did not mean that at all! My first responce was a giggle and aww

Worry not. I hope from the tone of my post that you realise I was joking.
JFTR the only thing I was preventing the evil pont from eating was ME.

 

[kerilli]

gosh, reading the rest of this thread has been an education.
to go back to the original question... most old horses develop sway backs, because their back is in effect a 'bridge' which is gradually pulled down (by the weight of their gut etc) over the years.
putting a heavy or very heavy rider on for extended periods will exacerbate this, surely, however stocky the horse's legs. horses were not designed to carry weight other than themselves, after all. they're much better pulling heavy weight than carrying it.
must admit i've been quite shocked at some of the pics and vids, and people's opinions of what is and isn't a reasonable weight for a certain height. i'm right with Wagtail on most of her comments.
fwiw, re: the 'i'm big boned' argument (which someone used an an excuse to me the other day - they weren't) - the easy test of this is to put your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist. if they overlap, you're small boned, if they meet, average boned, if don't meet, big-boned. it doesn't have anything to do with height, petiteness or otherwise of feet and hands, etc.
re: the recommendations of bariatric surgery... hmm, any comments on the hypnotism that convinces one that one has had bariatric surgery? far cheaper, less risk, and apparently has good results...

 

[millitiger]

fwiw, re: the 'i'm big boned' argument (which someone used an an excuse to me the other day - they weren't) - the easy test of this is to put your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist. if they overlap, you're small boned, if they meet, average boned, if don't meet, big-boned. it doesn't have anything to do with height, petiteness or otherwise of feet and hands, etc.

Yes! Just tested this and I am definitely big boned so I have an excuse

Although saying that I am still not obese (I hope?) at just over 11st and 5'10ft.

 

[kerilli]

Yes! Just tested this and I am definitely big boned so I have an excuse

Although saying that I am still not obese (I hope?) at just over 11st and 5'10ft.

it definitely makes a difference imho. i'm 5'10" with size 8 feet so thought i was prob medium boned or big boned, am actually small boned! so, no excuse at all. am happy to say current diet is ABSOLUTELY WORKING and i'm very very happy about it! 10st 4 and dropping...

 

[PaddyMonty]

fwiw, re: the 'i'm big boned' argument (which someone used an an excuse to me the other day - they weren't) - the easy test of this is to put your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist. if they overlap, you're small boned, if they meet, average boned, if don't meet, big-boned.

Does this hold true for men aswell?
Just check and I'm apparently big boned. A weedier runt of a male specimen it would be hard to find. I make the guy on the Mr Muscle advert look like Charles Atlas. So thats two new things I've learnt about myself today.

 

[BonneMaman]

I agree with Janette on this...
"Shires are strong for pulling, but not always for carrying heavy riders"

the same goes for any of the heavier breeds...I think they were all bred for the plough & not for riding?


& I agree with Benson21 about it seems only the female riders are criticized for being "heavier" .....it's so not fair!!

The older breeds of heavy horses were not bred for farm work, they were bred to carry men into battle with heavy armour. Those of you who have said that only people under 12st should ride need to take have a serious word with most of the men that hunt and most of the males in the British show jumping team!

I know of plenty of skinnies that are absolutely the worst riders I have ever had the misfortune to watch.

 

[bugbee717]

Ok just done my three year old, he has the same size gap as me about half an inch, he smaller than my girls at his age, but at three he is in a size 9 shoe, my oh fingers meet, over six foot, size 12/13 feet an normal weight for hight. I am 5.11, well u all know my weight, size 10 feet. Can't for the girls to come home number 1 is 8 size 3 shoes and tall, number is very tall, but very small and size 2 feet at 6 years old.

 

[kerilli]

Does this hold true for men aswell?
Just check and I'm apparently big boned. A weedier runt of a male specimen it would be hard to find. I make the guy on the Mr Muscle advert look like Charles Atlas. So thats two new things I've learnt about myself today.

it's in the Dukan Diet book written by a doctor, and aimed at both men and women, so i think it's true for both.
i know it is no excuse for anyone being overweight BUT it might explain why people of similar height and build etc can be surprisingly divergent in weight (putting aside the muscle/fat thing.)
another thing he says which he wants spread around is that when your BMI gets to 29 (men and women) is the point at which the fat cells in your body divide (double in number), and will never un-divide... so once you've crossed that threshold it is MUCH MUCH easier to gain weight (all those spare fat cells waiting to be filled) and much much harder to lose it... so, anyone approaching that, stop now, whatever it takes, or it'll be far harder in future, is his message.

bugbee717, i don't know if it's supposed to be accurate in children, it may only be adults who have stopped growing (length of finger bones etc)

 

[tallyho!]

another thing he says which he wants spread around is that when your BMI gets to 29 (men and women) is the point at which the fat cells in your body divide (double in number), and will never un-divide... so once you've crossed that threshold it is MUCH MUCH easier to gain weight (all those spare fat cells waiting to be filled) and much much harder to lose it... so, anyone approaching that, stop now, whatever it takes, or it'll be far harder in future, is his message.

That is quite true... scary huh???

 

[PapaFrita]

fwiw, re: the 'i'm big boned' argument (which someone used an an excuse to me the other day - they weren't) - the easy test of this is to put your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist. if they overlap, you're small boned, if they meet, average boned, if don't meet, big-boned. it doesn't have anything to do with height, petiteness or otherwise of feet and hands, etc.

Sorry K, I don't think it's as simple as that. I have veeeery long fingers

 

[*hic*]

Does this hold true for men aswell?
Just check and I'm apparently big boned. A weedier runt of a male specimen it would be hard to find. I make the guy on the Mr Muscle advert look like Charles Atlas. So thats two new things I've learnt about myself today.

Or you may have abnormally small hands for your build!

My hands and feet are a dead giveaway to the general shape of my bones. I have to wear XL women's gloves (or medium to large mens gloves) due to the breadth of them. Buying rings is difficult, I usually have to have them altered as the stock sizes just don't come big enough. My feet measure a G despite them now appearing bony rather than fat.

This is an interesting link for measuring frame and deciding on BMI etc. link here According to that the NHS BMI scales for my large frame are 26lbs out against the other indicators.

However I still have some way to go before worrying about being at the bottom of the healthy range.

 

[*hic*]

Sorry K, I don't think it's as simple as that. I have veeeery long fingers

Arachnodactyly!

 

[kerilli]

Or you may have abnormally small hands for your build!

My hands and feet are a dead giveaway to the general shape of my bones. I have to wear XL women's gloves (or medium to large mens gloves) due to the breadth of them. Buying rings is difficult, I usually have to have them altered as the stock sizes just don't come big enough. My feet measure a G despite them now appearing bony rather than fat.

This is an interesting link for measuring frame and deciding on BMI etc. link here According to that the NHS BMI scales for my large frame are 26lbs out against the other indicators.

However I still have some way to go before worrying about being at the bottom of the healthy range.

hmmm, i'm glove size 8, or XL usually. i just did that test you linked to and based on my wrist measurement (16cm) it said i am large-framed and should weigh 58-78kgs (BMI tables) or 69-79kgs (Met tables).
Eeeeeeeeek, I don't THINK so!
BMI is notoriously unreliably anyway imho, esp for anyone muscular. but the Met tables are way out for me anyway.

Sorry K, I don't think it's as simple as that. I have veeeery long fingers

so do i... but in proportion to my wrists they're okay, i guess.

 

[Kirwil]

Jemima that link is mental
I did it with elbow measurement and got that I had a small build and should weigh 2lbs more than I currently do (pretty much what I expected) Redid it with wrist and got large build. I have literally no fat on my wrists It said I should weigh 95lbs. At 5'6'' when I weighed that I looked anorexic. And that is 17lbs LESS than I currently weigh. Although I'm sure the family pony would be much happier...

 

[millitiger]

it definitely makes a difference imho. i'm 5'10" with size 8 feet so thought i was prob medium boned or big boned, am actually small boned! so, no excuse at all. am happy to say current diet is ABSOLUTELY WORKING and i'm very very happy about it! 10st 4 and dropping...

I don't like all these doubters of the theory- don't take my excuse from me!

My aim is to get to 10st something, even if it is 10st 13lb

 

[Winklepoker]

Shires and most heavies are hairy and grotesque and so are fat people.. lets just leave them be

 

[*hic*]

hmmm, i'm glove size 8, or XL usually. i just did that test you linked to and based on my wrist measurement (16cm) it said i am large-framed and should weigh 58-78kgs (BMI tables) or 69-79kgs (Met tables).


Eeeeeeeeek, I don't THINK so!


Oh I wish I'd seen your face, I'll bet you were horrified!


so do i... but in proportion to my wrists they're okay, i guess.

I am amazed that your frame size would be classified as large - well I'm amazed your wrists are that big as well. You certainly look long slim and elegant, unlike my short stumpiness.

I'm glad the diet is going well. Sadly I had a funeral, two family parties, AGM with three course meal and two days catering at Tina's in a week and it's rather put the mockers on mine.

 

[*hic*]

Jemima that link is mental
I did it with elbow measurement and got that I had a small build and should weigh 2lbs more than I currently do (pretty much what I expected) Redid it with wrist and got large build. I have literally no fat on my wrists It said I should weigh 95lbs. At 5'6'' when I weighed that I looked anorexic. And that is 17lbs LESS than I currently weigh. Although I'm sure the family pony would be much happier...

Yup, I think we might have to agree that it's really not right. Sad though as it was rather reassuring on putting my figures in

 

[*hic*]

Shires and most heavies are hairy and grotesque and so are fat people.. lets just leave them be

I ride a quarter shire. Does that mean I'm only a quarter grotesque and hairy?

 

[Winklepoker]

I ride a quarter shire. Does that mean I'm only a quarter grotesque and hairy?

Pass me a cloth will you! Just snorted tea out of my nose!

 

[kerilli]

I am amazed that your frame size would be classified as large - well I'm amazed your wrists are that big as well. You certainly look long slim and elegant, unlike my short stumpiness.

I'm glad the diet is going well. Sadly I had a funeral, two family parties, AGM with three course meal and two days catering at Tina's in a week and it's rather put the mockers on mine.

eek, that's tough for anyone. hope you get back on the wagon. i am being super-strict with the low-carbing and it has finally gotten to become an easy habit again... walked past Thorntons yesterday, and Ben and Jerry's, without a pang. took long enough though... i am a true carboholic when i cave in.
btw, this'll make you laugh, i heard recently about a top event rider who ranted to a volunteer FJ about the fact that entries are so expensive because of the free lunches provided to volunteers, and they should bring their own...

 

[Chloe..x]

The older breeds of heavy horses were not bred for farm work, they were bred to carry men into battle with heavy armour. Those of you who have said that only people under 12st should ride need to take have a serious word with most of the men that hunt and most of the males in the British show jumping team!

I know of plenty of skinnies that are absolutely the worst riders I have ever had the misfortune to watch.

I don't see where the under 12st official borderline has come. I think a 13st weightlimit should be enforced at riding school cos of the amount of work the horses actually do, 3 hours a day and if you're a weight carrier you have three hours of maybe 3 13st beginners. Its not fair on the horses.

 

[Hovis_and_SidsMum]

Juno. I obviously retract my offer for you to ride the Destroyer as you are clearly an equine abuser. Shame on you.

 

[Hovis_and_SidsMum]

Damn blackberry sent it before I'd finished! Juno - the issue is less your obvious weight issues and more your refusal to allow the poor thing to eat whatever it was off camera. Hovis would not stand for this!
As for heavy horse owners being hairy and fat - OMG how did you know? I look like the results of a genetic experiment between an elephant and an afghan hound

 

[Wagtail]

Pants I did not mean that at all! My first responce was a giggle and aww

I just wanted to make the point that Wagtail and marmalade76 have choosen to slate a young girl who is unabe to defent herself at length ,but say nothing to the adults.



Although,now I look at it agin the pony clearly has spotted something cook off camera and you are preventing the pony from eating it- evil after all

I have been critisising the adults. Diet to ride especially. I am not interested in slating a young girl. If you read my posts properly you will see that my critism was aimed at her parents. As a mother of two teenagers, there is NO WAY I would let them ride if they were that obese. I care for them far too much to do that. Being obese invites enough critisim and ridicule as it stands without making it look ten times as bad when an obese person rides a horse.

It worries me that so many people think nothing of making a horse carry so much weight concentrated in the small bearing surface of a saddle. It's shocking.

 

[jenki13]

I have been critisising the adults. Diet to ride especially. I am not interested in slating a young girl. If you read my posts properly you will see that my critism was aimed at her parents. As a mother of two teenagers, there is NO WAY I would let them ride if they were that obese. I care for them far too much to do that. Being obese invites enough critisim and ridicule as it stands without making it look ten times as bad when an obese person rides a horse.

It worries me that so many people think nothing of making a horse carry so much weight concentrated in the small bearing surface of a saddle. It's shocking.

I just don't think she's as heavy as you seem to think.. I thought her was about 16/16.2hh but turns out its not! When compared to Oli Townend & some of the other guys who ride quite fine thoroughbreds that are over 16hh but look tiny there might be less of a weight difference.. unfortunately we have no idea about the weight of the girl in question unlike those who have posted about themselves on here.

 

[*hic*]

eek, that's tough for anyone. hope you get back on the wagon. i am being super-strict with the low-carbing and it has finally gotten to become an easy habit again... walked past Thorntons yesterday, and Ben and Jerry's, without a pang. took long enough though... i am a true carboholic when i cave in.
btw, this'll make you laugh, i heard recently about a top event rider who ranted to a volunteer FJ about the fact that entries are so expensive because of the free lunches provided to volunteers, and they should bring their own...

Last night was the Grand Opening of a new family-owned facility, with a speaker I really wanted to hear, so we trundled along. Champagne (decent as well!) was being pushed on me for two hours and I only cracked and had one glass, together with the smoked salmon and caviar off a couple of blinis. Had to ignore all the other circulating goodies and the little miniature puds that the waitresses were trying to tempt us with.

In light of what was on offer there I think the lunches for volunteers are rather meagre really, however perhaps the top eventer would like to come and volunteer in October and we'll see how they feel about food and drink after 7 hours in a cold car watching other people have all the fun!

However I'm sort of back on track. Beware with the low carbing, if you've not done it before, that it can go back on VERY fast if you don't catch yourself quickly. I didn't exactly gorge at any of the "do"s but still managed to regain a stone in a week. In my case if I am really strict for three days after a single blip (eggs only) then I don't disrupt things too badly. Still 5 pounds up on where I was though after a week of blips.

 

[kerilli]

I just don't think she's as heavy as you seem to think.. I thought her was about 16/16.2hh but turns out its not! When compared to Oli Townend & some of the other guys who ride quite fine thoroughbreds that are over 16hh but look tiny there might be less of a weight difference.. unfortunately we have no idea about the weight of the girl in question unlike those who have posted about themselves on here.

hmm, okay, i have no idea how tall she is but i would be frankly amazed if she was less than 20 stone in the first vid, probably more.
i really don't think you can possibly compare OT and co (who don't tend to ride 'quite fine tbs' either imho... most event horses are more substantial than fine tb 'blood weed types') who ride with absolute balance and control, to the rider in question.
i know 'weight is weight' BUT balanced controlled weight is much easier to carry, and it is possible to 'ride light' or 'ride heavy' according to experience.

gosh jemima_too, that is self-control. yes, have done LC before and broke spectacularly (at an Event where there seemed to be only a sweetie stand, oops) but have a better handle on it this time, will gradually reintroduce stuff a la Dukan way.
i put a stone on in a week when skiing once (unbelievable) so i know how bad it can be! months to lose, hours to regain...