How is this vet allowed to conduct themselves like this online?

[PurpleSpots]

Just to say, and this is my last post……I am neither a sycophant or a “fawning” follower, I have never either been a member of an “in crowd” or wish to be so….
I read and like the majority of the posts on the page of the vet in question and have for some time, as I enjoy seeing the photos, videos of her horses…who to my mind look extremely well cared for, are growing into, what might be good competition horses..
I am lucky enough over the last 40 years to have been at many competitions, both national and international,in a “behind the scenes” job ie…you get to see what goes on after horses compete or even before they compete…
I don’t always agree with her…
Probably I will again get told on here that I am defending the indefensible..

But can't you see the pain, tension and stress they all exhibit?

And does it not bother you when she describes how she dismisses their difficulties away and just finds other ways to try to make them conform, despite their suffering?

And do the incorrect statements on veterinary matters not bother you?

Not to mention the bullying of others that she encourages?

 

[meleeka]

Just to say, and this is my last post……I am neither a sycophant or a “fawning” follower, I have never either been a member of an “in crowd” or wish to be so….
I read and like the majority of the posts on the page of the vet in question and have for some time, as I enjoy seeing the photos, videos of her horses…who to my mind look extremely well cared for, are growing into, what might be good competition horses..
I am lucky enough over the last 40 years to have been at many competitions, both national and international,in a “behind the scenes” job ie…you get to see what goes on after horses compete or even before they compete…
I don’t always agree with her…
Probably I will again get told on here that I am defending the indefensible..

That's fair enough that you enjoy her posts about the horses, that's your prerogative. I'm confused as to why you then feel the need to come on here to tell us all how unfair we are. If you think that the bullying and false information and looking down on others is acceptable, then yes, I would say you are defending the indefensible.

 

[Wizpop]

Can’t understand how she has been “allowed” to carry on with the rude, professionally damaging posts. Any other profession would have definitely put a stop to it by now! Surely we are looking at significant horse welfare issues here?

 

[scats]

Just to say, and this is my last post……I am neither a sycophant or a “fawning” follower, I have never either been a member of an “in crowd” or wish to be so….
I read and like the majority of the posts on the page of the vet in question and have for some time, as I enjoy seeing the photos, videos of her horses…who to my mind look extremely well cared for, are growing into, what might be good competition horses..
I am lucky enough over the last 40 years to have been at many competitions, both national and international,in a “behind the scenes” job ie…you get to see what goes on after horses compete or even before they compete…
I don’t always agree with her…
Probably I will again get told on here that I am defending the indefensible..

If you read my post, you will see I say “a lot of followers”, not “all her followers”.
You are entitled to read and enjoy whatever you like, but I am surprised, given the wealth of experience you speak of having, that you don’t see the behaviour being displayed by some of her horses is problematic and warrants further investigation.

It’s unusual for somebody new to join a forum to jump in defensively to a long-running thread if they don’t have a connection to the subject of it. This thread has been picked up and dropped several times over the months.

You are, of course, more than welcome to share your thoughts. It would be a boring forum if people didn’t. However, given this is generally a place where horse welfare is high up on the agenda for most, if you are going to actively support someone who many others feel do harm to the welfare of horses, either by their (often wrong) advice or their own behaviour, then people are going to call you out on it.

I’m not sure what your experience of ‘behind the scenes’ at national and international competition has got to do with anything, but anyway.

 

[Fellewell]

Oh I see now, this is a public service thread designed to protect new owners who don't know one end of a horse from the other. And there was me thinking this was yet another HHO thread based on the time-honoured tradition of poking a bear.
Vets make mistakes. All medical professionals make mistakes. Sometimes you have to advocate for your horse, pet, relative because conferring some kind of infallible status on a health professional is daft. All this says is that there is an even greater need for some form of formal training in horse care, preferably before buying a horse.
Bottom line: governing bodies have not seen fit to castigate this woman so this trial by social media has to be bordering on harassment.

 

[equinerebel]

Bottom line: governing bodies have not seen fit to castigate this woman so this trial by social media has to be bordering on harassment.

That doesn’t mean she hasn’t done something harmful to her own horses.

 

[misst]

Vets do make mistakes so do doctors etc. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes increase their knowledge and training and move on. SV doesn't make mistakes she pedals incorrect advice. It's not a mistake to ride a lame horse who you admit on SM is in need of shoeing to make her sound. The only mistake I've seen her admit to is not taking her whip and spurs to ride her footsore horse and force her onward!

 

[PurpleSpots]

Oh I see now, this is a public service thread designed to protect new owners who don't know one end of a horse from the other. And there was me thinking this was yet another HHO thread based on the time-honoured tradition of poking a bear.
Vets make mistakes. All medical professionals make mistakes. Sometimes you have to advocate for your horse, pet, relative because conferring some kind of infallible status on a health professional is daft. All this says is that there is an even greater need for some form of formal training in horse care, preferably before buying a horse.
Bottom line: governing bodies have not seen fit to castigate this woman so this trial by social media has to be bordering on harassment.

OK, so all animal owners should be more educated than vets because it's 'daft' to feel you should be able to trust a vet?

The governing body appears to exist mainly to protect those they govern, unfortunately.

It is not harassment to point out inaccuracies and aspects of significant concern in posts on social media.

 

[ycbm]

Vets make mistakes.

Of course they do, but they don't publicise it and monetarise it.

She is the only vet who I have ever seen write completely incorrect information on social media.

That's bad enough but when professionals, including other vets, attempt to correct her or even discuss the issue they are blocked, or worse ridiculed and even attacked on their own sites.
.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I followed her page for a while till the self aggrandising became irritating to me. But clearly others find her interesting/entertaining/informative or whatever so that’s just personal preference.

I didn’t actually have object in principle to her till her behaviour crossed several lines that I do consider indefensible. As set out in my previous post upthread. If anyone wants to defend her on those specific points, do feel free. In particular the harrassment and 1 star reviews on the vet physios page, the naming and shaming of Lehel and the 'perfectly normal legs for a cob' comments.

But she (on her page) and those who come here to defend her never engage in specifics - they just shout bullying/harrassment - while apparently not being overly converned about the bullying and harrasment she dishes out to others.

So yes, I think given that her page is her private echo chamber, there is a public interest benefit in a thread like this, that she can't censor.

 

[meleeka]

Bottom line: governing bodies have not seen fit to castigate this woman so this trial by social media has to be bordering on harassment.

Do you consider it's ok for her to instigate a harassment campaign by her followers to others, who either haven't done anything to deserve it, or made the mistake of questioning her evidence on something?

If her governing body did their jobs, there wouldn't be any need for threads like this one.

 

[marmalade76]

I followed her page for a while till the self aggrandising became irritating to me. But clearly others find her interesting/entertaining/informative or whatever so that’s just personal preference.

I didn’t actually have object in principle to her till her behaviour crossed several lines that I do consider indefensible. As set out in my previous post upthread. If anyone wants to defend her on those specific points, do feel free. In particular the harrassment and 1 star reviews on the vet physios page, the naming and shaming of Lehel and the 'perfectly normal legs for a cob' comments.

But she (on her page) and those who come here to defend her never engage in specifics - they just shout bullying/harrassment - while apparently not being overly converned about the bullying and harrasment she dishes out to others.

So yes, I think given that her page is her private echo chamber, there is a public interest benefit in a thread like this, that she can't censor.

Let's face it, this thread only really exists because people can't have their say on her threads.

 

[PurpleSpots]

Let's face it, this thread only really exists because people can't have their say on her threads.

As much as I want to agree, I think the main reason this thread exists is because of much of the content she shares - if there was no issue with it, we'd have no need to say anything about it.

Many if not most people on SM tend to block people they don't want on their pages, it's just that the content of most pages isn't so full of potentially harmful influence.

 

[PurpleSpots]

On a separate note, one of today's posts...

Horse with issues with a warm up arena had a bad experience last week. This week he was further upset by another spell in a warm up arena, so much so that he apparently almost went over backwards.

Just imagine if the issues this horse has with warm ups had been addressed before last week, so that the incident had less of an impact on him because his base level of confidence had been made more secure the moment he ever showed any sort of lack of confidence. It has been mentioned before because I commented on it weeks ago - on this thread I think, unless it was an older one.

Or imagine even just if since last week the issue had been worked on to help his confidence and anxiety. From the posts and videos shared this week nothing appears to have been addressed during his days or work - he lives alone and is ridden alone, and apparently nothing has been changed or varied.

As it happens, he appears to just keep on being subjected to the unpredictability of a warm up arena, without the confidence or ability to cope with it. For me, this is hugely irresponsible and verging on cruel - it's like putting someone with a fear of spiders into an uncontrolled situation with spiders everywhere, not helping them address or cope with their fear, then relaying their reactions to friends (and as if it's the spiders' fault) to make out that you were great to be able to cope with their extreme reactions.

Work to help the horse cope, don't just keep subjecting him to it. THAT is the mark of a good horseperson. That at least would give cause for some of the respect that is desired - rather than repeatedly posting photos, videos and reports of horses being subjected to stress and anxiety for human gain.

Why not exchange one weekend of an uncontrolled, frightening situation for him to go to an arena hire with a few other horses riding around too, and use exercises during that hire to help boost his confidence. It's not bl**dy difficult. It just takes putting them first.

 

[lizziebell]

On a separate note, one of today's posts...

Horse with issues with a warm up arena had a bad experience last week. This week he was further upset by another spell in a warm up arena, so much so that he apparently almost went over backwards.

Just imagine if the issues this horse has with warm ups had been addressed before last week, so that the incident had less of an impact on him because his base level of confidence had been made more secure the moment he ever showed any sort of lack of confidence. It has been mentioned before because I commented on it weeks ago - on this thread I think, unless it was an older one.

Or imagine even just if since last week the issue had been worked on to help his confidence and anxiety. From the posts and videos shared this week nothing appears to have been addressed during his days or work - he lives alone and is ridden alone, and apparently nothing has been changed or varied.

As it happens, he appears to just keep on being subjected to the unpredictability of a warm up arena, without the confidence or ability to cope with it. For me, this is hugely irresponsible and verging on cruel - it's like putting someone with a fear of spiders into an uncontrolled situation with spiders everywhere, not helping them address or cope with their fear, then relaying their reactions to friends (and as if it's the spiders' fault) to make out that you were great to be able to cope with their extreme reactions.

Work to help the horse cope, don't just keep subjecting him to it. THAT is the mark of a good horseperson. That at least would give cause for some of the respect that is desired - rather than repeatedly posting photos, videos and reports of horses being subjected to stress and anxiety for human gain.

Why not exchange one weekend of an uncontrolled, frightening situation for him to go to an arena hire with a few other horses riding around too, and use exercises during that hire to help boost his confidence. It's not bl**dy difficult. It just takes putting them first.

Couldn’t agree more. I’m on my own so I ensure I take all my young horses (and even older horses) out to regular group clinics to be able to ride with others, mostly riding club rallies. I wouldn’t imagine SV would actually stoop so low as to attend a group clinic or god forbid riding club, and I can’t think SV has many people she deems up to her experienced professional level to hire an arena with.

 

[Ambers Echo]

To be fair that kind of behaviour seems normal at BS. As I discovered at my Baptism of Fire with Amber at Weston Lawns. I agree it's shite horsemanship from my POV - I am ALL about preparing a horse psychologically for every task they have to face, not just chucking them in at the deep end and hoping they will cope eventually. But I think SJ is the worst discpline for that. You see so many horses BS losing their minds on the warm up and napping into the ring because they have been taught the job (jump clear) not the underlying tools for the job. But it works and is quicker so horses just have to suck it up. SV is far from alone in that regard. Sadly.

Baptism of fire....

So my first experience of affiliated showjumping at Weston Lawns. Can't say I really enjoyed it much! I have never seen a warm up ring in so much chaos. There were horses rearing, bucking, broncing, shooting backwards, tanking off etc. And it was so, so busy. I have competed at Eland and they...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

Warm Up Arena's

I took my girl to her second ever show jumping competition yesterday. The warm up arena was an eye opener to say the least :eek: Is it normal practice to fence part of the actual jumping arena to make a very small we are talking 20 x 40 warm up? I struggled massively with this yesterday...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[dorsetladette]

On a separate note, one of today's posts...


Why not exchange one weekend of an uncontrolled, frightening situation for him to go to an arena hire with a few other horses riding around too, and use exercises during that hire to help boost his confidence. It's not bl**dy difficult. It just takes putting them first.

Unfortunately this would require having friends who wanted to ride with you. When your as experienced and high level as SV you don't have friends to work with for the benefit of your horse.

 

[greenbean10]

Unfortunately this would require having friends who wanted to ride with you. When your as experienced and high level as SV you don't have friends to work with for the benefit of your horse.

Someone a while ago asked why she didn’t get someone to ride her other horse at the same time and her response was something along the lines of no one is lightweight or capable enough

 

[ThatAwfulCPLwoman]

That's bad enough but when professionals, including other vets, attempt to correct her or even discuss the issue they are blocked, or worse ridiculed and even attacked on their own sites.
.

I can't say much as its not my place, except to add that she has done this again and it has had very harmful and distressing consequences for the targetted individual. Which I fully expect she will enjoy knowing once she reads this. That's all I can say on the matter.

 

[HopOnTrot]

Someone suggest hoof boots to her,. I dare you.

 

[dorsetladette]

Someone suggest hoof boots to her,. I dare you.

Think it's already been done. when the mare had to wear shoes but had some time without shoes due to injury, but had no injury and had to wear shoes.

I don't think it ended well.

She already knows my name from when someone shared her worming advise on a local FB page and I suggested people should also seek advise from their own vet on a case by case scenario and not just blindly read/believe what they see on social media. I was labelled one of 'those' people and then had my grammar corrected - all while she was supposedly sat having a birthday meal with her parents.

 

[HG95]

Oh god anyone seen the latest post about marks in the horse's mouth from bits .... 2 of them being her own horses

 

[PurpleSpots]

Oh god anyone seen the latest post about marks in the horse's mouth from bits .... 2 of them being her own horses

That post appears to be a response to a comment I made on here a while back, when there was a photo of Mabel yawning, showing a significant lesion in her mouth.

SV today: 'Someone who has seen a horse yawn and taken a screenshot of the mouth to share on social media, doesn’t know that horse or how the horse has been ridden, especially from one photo.'

That wasn't really my point. My point was that the horse shouldn't be being ridden in a bit with a lesion in her mouth. And the updates and photos from the week in question did show that the horse had been being ridden in a bit both before and after the day of the yawning photo. But equally, it does make one question whether that damage was done by the bit and the way it has been used when the person in question openly states that they have been having arguments with their horse down the reins. Especially when they seem content to keep riding the horse in a bit when she has a lesion in her mouth.

I'll write it again as perhaps repetition is the key - horse is uncomfortable behind, horse loads to front end to alleviate discomfort, horse is therefore strong in the hand and finds it hard to 'sit'. Also very common for this to cause generalised discomfort in the front feet, especially if they are not as perfect in shape and function as one could wish for, as they are taking more of a hit as the horse tries to alleviate the hind end discomfort. All a stronger bit appears to be doing is making it harder for the horse to communicate her difficulties.

I fully agree though, that anything which goes into a horse's mouth has the potential to cause damage.

ETA: Ohhh, rinsing out water tubs has allowed my mind to wander - there's been a recent video/stillshot of Valegro yawning which has been shared in a few places. Perhaps that was the trigger for SV's post. Who knows. I stand by what I've written above though.

 

[Clipper Queen]

100% agree with opinions and freedom of speech, but she never makes it clear that it’s her “opinion” and always puts her opinion across as “fact”.

Aside from the opinion elements of her social media account. Bullying, trolling, inciting aggression and abusive behaviour towards people on social media does breach RCVS social media code of conduct, yet this is also ignored by them.

Do you have any evidence of tbr trolling etc that could be taken to rcvs?

 

[lizziebell]

Do you have any evidence of tbr trolling etc that could be taken to rcvs?

If you look back through the thread, numerous people have screenshots of the bullying/ trolling posts, and several people have reported it (I know someone in real life who was targeted by SV - they have copies of all the interaction which they sent to RCVS). I believe somewhere on this thread there is a response from the RCVS to one of the complaints.

 

[PurpleSpots]

To be fair that kind of behaviour seems normal at BS. As I discovered at my Baptism of Fire with Amber at Weston Lawns. I agree it's shite horsemanship from my POV - I am ALL about preparing a horse psychologically for every task they have to face, not just chucking them in at the deep end and hoping they will cope eventually. But I think SJ is the worst discpline for that. You see so many horses BS losing their minds on the warm up and napping into the ring because they have been taught the job (jump clear) not the underlying tools for the job. But it works and is quicker so horses just have to suck it up. SV is far from alone in that regard. Sadly.

Baptism of fire....

So my first experience of affiliated showjumping at Weston Lawns. Can't say I really enjoyed it much! I have never seen a warm up ring in so much chaos. There were horses rearing, bucking, broncing, shooting backwards, tanking off etc. And it was so, so busy. I have competed at Eland and they...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

Warm Up Arena's

I took my girl to her second ever show jumping competition yesterday. The warm up arena was an eye opener to say the least :eek: Is it normal practice to fence part of the actual jumping arena to make a very small we are talking 20 x 40 warm up? I struggled massively with this yesterday...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

Sorry this reply is a bit out of sync now, but it would feel rude to not reply, and didn't have time earlier on to read the links.

Totally agree about warm up arenas - but SV has been competing for how many years? Has produced how many 'hundreds' of horses?
Warm up arenas should not be a surprise to her, so why on Earth isn't she helping the poor horse by either teaching him how to cope, or spending her time doing things which don't scare him witless?

It is so easy to help a horse feel more confident around others if you think outside the box a bit. I really hope she starts to show that she is able to do this for him because it would be so nice to feel a bit of relief for him - and to be able to say something, ANYTHING, positive on this thread!

 

[Ambers Echo]

I do agree it’s poor horsemanship. I’m not making excuses for SV, just saying that unfortunately this ‘training’ approach is common and it’s the better riders who seem to be the worst offenders. Perhaps because they are sticky bummed enough not to care if their horses are leaping about and losing their minds. Perhaps because they are more results oriented than most leisure riders. Perhaps because they are preparing horses for age classes with a view to selling and want a BS record and pretty pictures more than they want a well trained, confident, happy horse. Perhaps because ‘sink or swim’ does work, is quicker, and they just don’t care enough to take more time to prepare the horses so it’s easier on them. Who knows. But I’ve spent the last 2 years at Cat1 shows (like SV was at) and pro/semi pro riders on their mentally fried horses were a often a nightmare.

And let’s face it, even her supporters can’t believe that SV’s vibe or brand is empathetic horse training. She’s much more of the SEU ilk. Leaving the fluffy bunny stuff to others.

 

[Clipper Queen]

Tb

If you look back through the thread, numerous people have screenshots of the bullying/ trolling posts, and several people have reported it (I know someone in real life who was targeted by SV - they have copies of all the interaction which they sent to RCVS). I believe somewhere on this thread there is a response from the RCVS to one of the complaints.

H I'm not entirely sure how this whole place works, I'm a facebook gal!

 

[Ceifer]

I do agree it’s poor horsemanship. I’m not making excuses for SV, just saying that unfortunately this ‘training’ approach is common and it’s the better riders who seem to be the worst offenders. Perhaps because they are sticky bummed enough not to care if their horses are leaping about and losing their minds. Perhaps because they are more results oriented than most leisure riders. Perhaps because they are preparing horses for age classes with a view to selling and want a BS record and pretty pictures more than they want a well trained, confident, happy horse. Perhaps because ‘sink or swim’ does work, is quicker, and they just don’t care enough to take more time to prepare the horses so it’s easier on them. Who knows. But I’ve spent the last 2 years at Cat1 shows (like SV was at) and pro/semi pro riders on their mentally fried horses were a often a nightmare.

And let’s face it, even her supporters can’t believe that SV’s vibe or brand is empathetic horse training. She’s much more of the SEU ilk. Leaving the fluffy bunny stuff to others.

I agree with this. I don’t want to come across like SV but working with pro riders it is a different world.
I’ve worked with some very good riders and some not so great who just don’t see that horses are lame/in pain as some horses will still jump round 1.30 classes when they are mechanically lame.

 

[I'm Dun]

I agree with this. I don’t want to come across like SV but working with pro riders it is a different world.
I’ve worked with some very good riders and some not so great who just don’t see that horses are lame/in pain as some horses will still jump round 1.30 classes when they are mechanically lame.

Yup, its a different world sadly.