TallGirl82
Member
Thank you - its so hard to know when I don't have any other reference point.
How much is a reasonable rent for field and stables?
- Thread starter TallGirl82
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TallGirl82
Member
Would you harrow every time you move the horses? Or just once a year?
TallGirl82
Member
That was my understanding of the fertilising nature of the poo, it needed to rot down first!
TallGirl82
Member
Thank you! We can see both fields from our house and its the first thing you see when you come into our drive - ratty looking fields covered in weeds with plastic electrical fence posts everywhere. The birds don't spread the poo around here. And the poo is just left to rot in the bottom of the shelter (not sure what the floor is, perhaps concrete? She did try to get my 11 year old son to clear it for the princely sum of £2.50, but after an hours work and 14 barrow loads, and hardly making a dent, he said no thanks and the job still hasn't been done).
TallGirl82
Member
We were more than happy to discuss with her and said 'here's the salient terms, happy to discuss' and would have been happy with every other day or twice a week or something, anything more than she does now. But she doesn't want to discuss anything, just to tell us that 'I knew you wanted me gone'. Its going to be an interesting 4 weeks...
The Fuzzy Furry
Getting old disgracefully
Just be busy elsewhere till she goes, but I'd do her a letter asap along the lines of: Thank you for letting us know today that you will be moving your horses out in 4 weeks time, please arrange to return the keys etc etc on xyz date.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I poo pick daily for 8 and I also strim the weeds very regularly so it does look almost like parkland. Cannot stand "horse sour", weedy looking fields. I harrow and roll once a year end March (as soon as it is dry enough) and lime.
My biggest worry would be what happens in 4 weeks time if she is still there. I would make sure an agreement was in place now with the new rent to start very soon plus the poo picking requirement and formally serve notice. If she is still in place in 4 weeks time otherwise you won't have made much progress and also find out what action to take if she is still there.
In the horse world people saying they are leaving and then actually leaving don't always equate.
My biggest worry would be what happens in 4 weeks time if she is still there. I would make sure an agreement was in place now with the new rent to start very soon plus the poo picking requirement and formally serve notice. If she is still in place in 4 weeks time otherwise you won't have made much progress and also find out what action to take if she is still there.
In the horse world people saying they are leaving and then actually leaving don't always equate.
Noble
Well-Known Member
To answer your poo picking question I would think it reasonable to ask for the field to be rolled and harrowed in spring, so once a year. After harrowing I would require the field to be completely cleared at least once a week, every week , at their convenience until they are unable to push a full barrow through the surface. Then in winter if necessary they can have a break from their duties but it must again be harrowed and rolled in the following spring. Hope that helps.
TallGirl82
Member
Thank you - she has already asked for the rest of the rent that she's already paid and won't use back, and has started to clear out the tackroom and have a large bonfire burning all sorts. We gave her until Dec 1st under the current arrangements so I'm happy if its not strictly 4 weeks. Obviously a rent will have to be paid if she overstays... haha.
Going to need to do some work on the land before we can even think about letting it out to someone else!
TallGirl82
Member
That's great, thank you! Harrowing once a year makes sense if you are poo-picking the rest of the time. Our tenant harrowed once a year and does no poopicking.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Sorry, that was a bit of an abrupt reply.
I would actually poo pick, but not obsessively. Once horses were off I’d harrow and rest. That could theoretically mean harrowing several times a year.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Having a bonfire? ???
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
When I rented it was in the contract that the field had to be either poo picked every day or completely cleared once a week. The landlord maintained fences etc and arranged for the land to be topped and harrowed twice a year.
The shelter had to be cleared every day.
Now I have my own place and 3 ponies, I still poo pick every day throughout the year.
Sounds like she's found somewhere else to go. Fingers crossed all goes smoothly!
The shelter had to be cleared every day.
Now I have my own place and 3 ponies, I still poo pick every day throughout the year.
Sounds like she's found somewhere else to go. Fingers crossed all goes smoothly!
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
A tenner a week per horse, Jeez you are giving it away!
She has 8 acres for pity's sake!! And appears to do sweet diddly-squat in the way of land maintenance.
I have read (above) what you are proposing and this sounds reasonable! Tho' personally I do think you are rather undercharging; the £400 figure sounds more realistic.
Re. your "sitting tenant". Personally I would counsel you to give her notice to quit the land as I sadly fear she is going to be nothing but trouble to you in the future if you let her stay on your property. She sounds like the "I-know-my-rights" type and has already been rude and abrasive which was totally unnecessary! Not helpful at all! Her type are good at attracting other Harpies of the same persuasion and before you know it you will have problems. I would seriously urge you to have a "new broom sweep clean" approach and give her notice to quit. End of.
If you were house-letting then yes under certain tenancy agreements currently you might have to give statutory 4 months notice to quit but this is not a house it is land. At my yard it is a month's notice either side. I think you are being over-generous therefore.
I would strongly suggest that you get a Legal to write her a letter giving her Notice to Quit. This should be sent Recorded/Signed for delivery. As she has already shown that she is a thoroughly unpleasant person and threatened to up the anti and get assy then I think this is the best and wisest way forward to avoid any unpleasantness. It is what I would do in your circumstances having been a YO for over 25 years now. Like yourself I live on-site and the ONE thing I have found if you DO live at "the yard" is that you need to be happy with your livery; and she with you - and if you are starting off with strife already in the air it isn't a good foundation for the future! You could have a lovely livery who appreciates what they have and who will be happy and content. Not someone that's going to sass you all the time. You don't need a person on your place who you are very likely to encounter daily and who is bringing strife and discord!! Please I would urge you to think of this!! Don't do it! Don't permit a bad atmosphere on your place! You don't need it!
And please don't feel sorry for her! She took the initiative in being unpleasant and rude to you; she could have adopted a mature attitude and been polite and reasonable, but she did not. Also don't forget you are running a business NOT a charitable concern and you need to make your business thrive and be worth doing. Plus like I say you need peace and harmony. I have had some lovely liveries at my place through the years and when you get a good livery it is fantastic.
Also (sorry to have to remind you but it is important) - don't overlook adequate insurance.........
She has 8 acres for pity's sake!! And appears to do sweet diddly-squat in the way of land maintenance.
I have read (above) what you are proposing and this sounds reasonable! Tho' personally I do think you are rather undercharging; the £400 figure sounds more realistic.
Re. your "sitting tenant". Personally I would counsel you to give her notice to quit the land as I sadly fear she is going to be nothing but trouble to you in the future if you let her stay on your property. She sounds like the "I-know-my-rights" type and has already been rude and abrasive which was totally unnecessary! Not helpful at all! Her type are good at attracting other Harpies of the same persuasion and before you know it you will have problems. I would seriously urge you to have a "new broom sweep clean" approach and give her notice to quit. End of.
If you were house-letting then yes under certain tenancy agreements currently you might have to give statutory 4 months notice to quit but this is not a house it is land. At my yard it is a month's notice either side. I think you are being over-generous therefore.
I would strongly suggest that you get a Legal to write her a letter giving her Notice to Quit. This should be sent Recorded/Signed for delivery. As she has already shown that she is a thoroughly unpleasant person and threatened to up the anti and get assy then I think this is the best and wisest way forward to avoid any unpleasantness. It is what I would do in your circumstances having been a YO for over 25 years now. Like yourself I live on-site and the ONE thing I have found if you DO live at "the yard" is that you need to be happy with your livery; and she with you - and if you are starting off with strife already in the air it isn't a good foundation for the future! You could have a lovely livery who appreciates what they have and who will be happy and content. Not someone that's going to sass you all the time. You don't need a person on your place who you are very likely to encounter daily and who is bringing strife and discord!! Please I would urge you to think of this!! Don't do it! Don't permit a bad atmosphere on your place! You don't need it!
And please don't feel sorry for her! She took the initiative in being unpleasant and rude to you; she could have adopted a mature attitude and been polite and reasonable, but she did not. Also don't forget you are running a business NOT a charitable concern and you need to make your business thrive and be worth doing. Plus like I say you need peace and harmony. I have had some lovely liveries at my place through the years and when you get a good livery it is fantastic.
Also (sorry to have to remind you but it is important) - don't overlook adequate insurance.........
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Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
You sound like a lovely reasonable person that many of us reliant upon livery or rentals would be very appreciative of so I’m sorry your experience of this livery has been a negative one. At least she’s leaving without much fuss!
I have two horses on about two acres split into 4 paddocks. In summer when out 24/7 I poo pick pretty much twice a day. In winter when in at night it’s as often as I can depending on weather and light but cleared at weekends at least. However sometimes in winter you just can’t push a wheel-barrow through mud so I’ve had to leave it. The winter before last I just had to give up as it was so wet. You’d need to factor in some realistic flexibility to the average working horse owner unless you rent to someone who doesn’t work.
Other practical things to factor in are distance to muck heap or if you’ll allow temporary field heaps to be removed once or twice yearly as this is much easier and still keeps fields in good order. Our fields furthest from the yard and muck trailer have these. However you do need right equipment to remove them.
Obviously whatever you decide is fine as the landowner just factor in any costs that you’d incur into your rental price so you’re not out of pocket.
I have two horses on about two acres split into 4 paddocks. In summer when out 24/7 I poo pick pretty much twice a day. In winter when in at night it’s as often as I can depending on weather and light but cleared at weekends at least. However sometimes in winter you just can’t push a wheel-barrow through mud so I’ve had to leave it. The winter before last I just had to give up as it was so wet. You’d need to factor in some realistic flexibility to the average working horse owner unless you rent to someone who doesn’t work.
Other practical things to factor in are distance to muck heap or if you’ll allow temporary field heaps to be removed once or twice yearly as this is much easier and still keeps fields in good order. Our fields furthest from the yard and muck trailer have these. However you do need right equipment to remove them.
Obviously whatever you decide is fine as the landowner just factor in any costs that you’d incur into your rental price so you’re not out of pocket.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
many yards/DIY etc take a deposit initially which is then returned when the stable, paddock etc is left clean and tidy. If it isn't then that money is available to pay someone to muck out, poo pick or whatever.
TallGirl82
Member
Sent the Tesco delivery driver to see if she was still there!! She wasn't. He must have thought I was a crazy lady...
Burning all the stuff we don't let her burn normally and ask her to take to the dump (plastic, lead ropes, old blankets etc).
TallGirl82
Member
That's what I thought might happen - she's also asked for the weeks advance she gave us when we moved in... there was no advance, just the following four weeks rent due on the very day we moved in...
I also doubt very much that she will leave a clean and tidy yard/shelter/field but its really not worth the fight.TallGirl82
Member
Temporary muck heaps, good idea! More than happy to be flexible and work with the tenant on timings and frequency as long as it gets done! Current tenant doesn't work, so has plenty of time. But totally get working people have lives and jobs outside of their horses and am happy to work with that.
HappyHollyDays
Slave to 2 cats and 2 ponies
If she doesn’t work then not poo picking daily is taking the pee and pure idleness. You sound well rid of her.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
Wow! It sounds like a good job she is leaving then.
I'd never leave my shelters, hard standing or main grazing areas like that. The only poo I leave now is if it's in long grass that they don't eat and you can't see it! All weeds I pull, painted my shelters with the paint provided by the land owner, I fix fencing even though I don't have to and generally keep it all looking really nice. Its like an extension of my garden for me, I enjoy pottering around there. My electric fencing has to be dead straight too! ? Can't cope with messy fencing. I reseed as well if it's looking bare in places and harrow every spring.
I wouldn't be pleased having to look at that either so blessing in disguise it seems for you.
TallGirl82
Member
Thank you so much! We had a letter with the new contract all ready to put in the recorded post, but thought it the nice thing to do to send her a quick text with the headline changes ie rent and poo picking requirements. She messaged back to say that she would be leaving before the end of this rental period ie what she's paid for, and that where poo picking is concerned, 'anyone knows that in a space that big you chain harrow' which she did. Once, in the 14 months we've been here. And wished us luck getting any new tenant to poo pick.
You are totally right, it would be lovely to have a peaceful person on our property.
TPO
Well-Known Member
I dont know thr english laws but it's illegal to burn plastic without a license in scotland. If england is similar I'd perhaps insist more strongly that she does a tip run rather than burn items like that.
She sounds like an absolute horror. I hope she leaves before the 4wks to give you some peace. I wouldn't refund any livery until the place is cleared and left in a satisfactory condition once the horses are off the property.
In regards to land management if you are on facebook have a look at the group "Land management for horses with Dr Lisa Schofield".
You'll perhaps see land and acreage similar to your own. If you post your predicament and pictures of the land they will be able to advise (just a word of caution always read the "pinned topics" first and always say please and thank you when asking any questions on there). That page will give you a proper idea of where and how to start restoring your land
She sounds like an absolute horror. I hope she leaves before the 4wks to give you some peace. I wouldn't refund any livery until the place is cleared and left in a satisfactory condition once the horses are off the property.
In regards to land management if you are on facebook have a look at the group "Land management for horses with Dr Lisa Schofield".
You'll perhaps see land and acreage similar to your own. If you post your predicament and pictures of the land they will be able to advise (just a word of caution always read the "pinned topics" first and always say please and thank you when asking any questions on there). That page will give you a proper idea of where and how to start restoring your land
TallGirl82
Member
Thanks so much - I have looked up the group on Facebook and have requested to join. Going to learn a whole lot I think!
AmyMay
Situation normal
It’s a really good point about bonfire. You have to have a license to burn (if not residential).
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
For giving over all that stuff to her I think even £30 a horse seems very cheap. I wouldnt do it!
Winters100
Well-Known Member
Great that she is leaving - I am sure that you will easily find a nice responsible tenant who will jump at the chance of renting these facilities.
Regarding poo picking v harrowing, yes harrowing is often used in larger areas, but in my opinion it is an inferior solution. I have my 3 in about 3 hectares (about 7.5 acres), and although they are on half livery, so the yard handles harrowing, I prefer to poo pick. I do it every day so it doesn't take long.
I wish you lck in finding someone more reasonable to rent your land, and from the sounds of it that will not be too difficult!
Regarding poo picking v harrowing, yes harrowing is often used in larger areas, but in my opinion it is an inferior solution. I have my 3 in about 3 hectares (about 7.5 acres), and although they are on half livery, so the yard handles harrowing, I prefer to poo pick. I do it every day so it doesn't take long.
I wish you lck in finding someone more reasonable to rent your land, and from the sounds of it that will not be too difficult!
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
Great news that she's leaving - £22.50 per horse per week was still an absolute bargain for the facilities she has!
Re poo picking/ harrowing - we poo pick as much of the year as we can and then stop once the horses go onto their winter field, which is usually around November. They tend to be on there until March and is a good sized field, so does fairly well without being poo picked. It then gets harrowed in the spring once they move onto their summer paddocks, and we start poo picking again. It works pretty well and are paddocks all look pretty neat and tidy
Re poo picking/ harrowing - we poo pick as much of the year as we can and then stop once the horses go onto their winter field, which is usually around November. They tend to be on there until March and is a good sized field, so does fairly well without being poo picked. It then gets harrowed in the spring once they move onto their summer paddocks, and we start poo picking again. It works pretty well and are paddocks all look pretty neat and tidy
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
She sounds like an awful tenant do not allow for wiggle room with what you’ve asked. She sounds awful and surely she should be asking you before having bonfires?!
little_critter
Well-Known Member
And clear the poo before she goes!