How Much Pain Do We Really Inflict On Our Horse Daily?

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Cheshire Chestnut

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This was a question I got asked by a non-horsey work colleague this week and I haven't stopped thinking about it since... I mean, how much? Here was my night at the yard yesterday:

1) Yank with the headcollar when he tried to rudely snatch the grass as I was bringing him in = possibly hurt his face?
2) Riding with a bit in the school = mouth pain?
3) Asking him to jump and him banging his hoof on the pole = ouch to his foot?

Not that I seesaw his mouth or even ride him in a strong bit or anything but it can't be nice surely? I've never been one for natural horsemanship/bitless riding etc but that question has really got me thinking about do most horses do what we say because they have small amounts of pain inflicted on them daily, or at least the threat of it? Not to even mention spurs, whips or essential things such as injections. Lunging for example, the lunge whip is there to encourage a horse forward but it represents a threat of pain to the horse to make him go forward.

Not starting an argument by any means, I've just been a bit flummoxed by the question!
 
You have to distinguish between pain and pressure. A bit should cause the latter, not the former under "usual" circs (i.e. if the horse sods off, and you take its teeth out to stop. I don't consider this "usual")

And then there's pain they cause us. My shoulder's wrecked at the moment from dragging bales around. I've usually go dozens of scrapes and bashes and such which they've given me - directly or indirectly :p
 
Bear in mind that its 500kg+ animal, his skin is much thicker than humans and protected by hair. Human strength hardly can inflict much pain yanking a headcollar; riding with a bit (without seesawing) probably no more than wearing dentures for a human; banging a hoof on flimsy pole...no, dont think its an "ouch".

All above is just sort of "humanising" horses according to theirs size.
 
I went away from work feeling dreadful! He was asking me loads of questions (of course he's a-right-about
-everything kind of person) and then making me question everything I do. I do not class myself as a particularly soft person when it comes to horses manners, nor do I go around shouting at him or smacking him for everything he does wrong. I just think I'm fair and also very loving to him. Treat him as my baby (which he is) but insist on good manners and (mostly!) good behaviour.

Stupid man has got me all paranoid!
 
Looking at the way mine play with each other in the field, with all the playful nips and barges,I really don't think the odd yank or shove from a human counts as painful.
 
I think if my horse was in pain by something I was making him do, I would know about it!

Hes been a sh it recently, reared up vertical 3 times on sunday and I've now discovered he is rear!

none of the things you mention above would cause any pain! surely if you can nail a shoe to his hoof and not get a reaction, clipping a jump pole isn't going to do anything!
 
i have my tongue pierced so i have a piece of metal in my mouth 24/7, doesn't cause me pain even when i pull at it( I can hang my bunch of keys on it lol), i can feel the pressure but not pain, i imagine having a correctly fitted bit is a similar sensation for a horse ;) I'm pretty sure if we caused them pain on a regular basis they would soon make it clear with their reactions
 
Try tapping him gently on his cheek, then say 'that's what a horse feels'.

Then belt him, and say 'That's what a human feels. See the difference?'

Smile sweetly and walk off ... :p
 
Actually I'd turn it round the other way. How much easier do we make it for horses? why do horses live so much longer than they would in the wild? Why have horses become domesticated. Because, basically, we provide everything they need to survive, so for both parties it's a win/win situation. We are so lucky to have horses in our lives, but they are lucky to have us (well most of us)!
 
It often takes a non-horsey person to show the Emperor's wearing no clothes. Of course, we're all good at ego defence, as the posts above show - it is quite possibly to belittle the discomfort of others if it makes us feel better.
It's fine to cause a horse pain, because we cause them less pain than another horse might. Hmm. So it's fine to cause a child pain, because other kids at school may pinch them harder and that's what kids do?
Horses have thicker skins than us and don't feel pain... funny how they react when a fly lands on their skin then.
You don't feel pain from a stud in your tongue. I wonder how a metal stud pressing on the bone that's lightly covered with gum where you've lost a tooth would feel?
A hoof doesn't have sensation because you nail shoes to it. Yes, true - and people can pierce their nails as well. Try rapping the bed of your finger or toe nail hard by accident on something solid - does it hurt? Yes, it does.

Yes, horses live longer and healthier lives with us. But what should they have to tolerate in order to earn this privilege we didn't give them the option to choose?

Anthropomorphism is incorrectly attributing human emotions to animals. It is not denying that animals experience emotions, simply that the emotions that they feel may be different in kind, if not in depth and range, to ours. It is easy to convince yourself that another animal's (or even another person's) experiences are less real and less important than your own, but if you feel uncertainty and discomfort when someone calls you on something like this, it's not necessarily because they're wrong, but because you weren't sure you're right.
 
Well said brightbay - I have seen many times horses and ponies put up with obvious mistreatment and abuse at the hands of their 'loving' owners - being hit hard multiple times with a whip for refusing a jump, poor position over a jump meaning spurs are dug hard into his sides, a frustrated child yanking a pony to a halt... My point being, if they do not complain about this pain, how can we be sure that a yank on a headcollar or 'normal' pressure from a bit doesn't hurt, just because they do not complain about that either?
 
I rarely inflict pain on my horses and anyone who does isn't doing it properly imo.
Cheshire Chestnut said:
This was a question I got asked by a non-horsey work colleague this week and I haven't stopped thinking about it since... I mean, how much?
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This is a question from someone with no horse handling skills or knowledge. Just ask them to take your horse for a walk one day and see how they do :)
 
Not starting an argument but in my opinion bits hurt the horses mouth doesn't matter how soft you are would you like a piece of metal in your mouth? I thought not bitless all the way👍😏
 
I think my horse inflicts more pain on me !

I do everything to make sure that teeth are perfect, saddle fits, back is done, feet are well shod/trimmed

at the end of the day my horse costs me far too much for me to risk her by putting her in unnecessary pain which can be avoided. similarly I wouldn't beat her up. Also because I have a lot of love for her !

She is 600kg of horse & if she wants to walk in her stable for her feed even my elbow to the chest she doesn't notice & I have bloody pointy elbows !! therefore I don't think me pulling her back will cause her much pain
 
Myamazinghorsey said:
Not starting an argument but in my opinion bits hurt the horses mouth doesn't matter how soft you are would you like a piece of metal in your mouth? I thought not bitless all the way����
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If I had the mouth conformation of a horse, I would rather a well handled bit than a clumsily handled bitless...
 
A yank on the head collar can't be all that distressing to a horse, given how many of them appear to be completely oblivious to it when they find a patch of grass ...
 
Myamazinghorsey said:
Well I would rather bitless at least then if you don't have soft hands you aren't a pulling on a piece of metal in its mouth
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No. But depending on the type of bitless you may be inflicting large amounts of poll pressure. Far better just to learn to use your hands properly...
 
Brightbay said:
It often takes a non-horsey person to show the Emperor's wearing no clothes. Of course, we're all good at ego defence, as the posts above show - it is quite possibly to belittle the discomfort of others if it makes us feel better.
It's fine to cause a horse pain, because we cause them less pain than another horse might. Hmm. So it's fine to cause a child pain, because other kids at school may pinch them harder and that's what kids do?
Horses have thicker skins than us and don't feel pain... funny how they react when a fly lands on their skin then.
You don't feel pain from a stud in your tongue. I wonder how a metal stud pressing on the bone that's lightly covered with gum where you've lost a tooth would feel?
A hoof doesn't have sensation because you nail shoes to it. Yes, true - and people can pierce their nails as well. Try rapping the bed of your finger or toe nail hard by accident on something solid - does it hurt? Yes, it does.

Yes, horses live longer and healthier lives with us. But what should they have to tolerate in order to earn this privilege we didn't give them the option to choose?

Anthropomorphism is incorrectly attributing human emotions to animals. It is not denying that animals experience emotions, simply that the emotions that they feel may be different in kind, if not in depth and range, to ours. It is easy to convince yourself that another animal's (or even another person's) experiences are less real and less important than your own, but if you feel uncertainty and discomfort when someone calls you on something like this, it's not necessarily because they're wrong, but because you weren't sure you're right.
Click to expand...

And that post is anthropomorphism in its truest form.
 
Well, whenever your colleague perfects a means by which animals and humans may successfully negotiate agreeable terms with one another, without any form of physical/mental/emotional pressure involved, then he may judge. Given his approach thus far has been to mess with your head and leave you upset/confused/in conflict just to be correct about something that he has no actual experience of, I'd say he's got a long way to go on that...

On another note, I regularly watch mine bite, kick, barge and otherwise hammer one another in the field. At other times they are incredibly gentle. But the underlying risk of physical strength clearly remains a part of every interaction. That's simply how they are. Probably because they don't have the - perhaps over valued - tool that is reasoned debate. There is simply an order that must be respected, and occasionally things happen to change this order. That tends to be when the rougher behaviour is shown too. For the most they are serene, a collective body united at grass.

And I feel that they assign the humans involved with them a spot in the order too. They certainly react differently to different individuals. I feel oddly certain that simply throwing one's weight about would not win any debate with them. If they do not respect the human involved, then no amount of force is likely to instil obedience. It is down to respect, and trust - things that they learn to grant over time. Probably the most important interactions are the ones that we can't even recognise, because we don't have the refinement of senses left to us. So it isn't in the pressure but rather in the stillness - that's where the actual connection is, however tentative. It's the thing that tells you where the horse "is" in relation to you and how it's going to react.

IMO anyhow :p
 
If you want to find out what a bit is like - stick one in your mouth and give someone else the reins. I've done it and it's fine as long as they're not heavy handed.
 
oldie48 said:
Actually I'd turn it round the other way. How much easier do we make it for horses? why do horses live so much longer than they would in the wild? Why have horses become domesticated. Because, basically, we provide everything they need to survive, so for both parties it's a win/win situation. We are so lucky to have horses in our lives, but they are lucky to have us (well most of us)!
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Very well said.

Also op can I ask why you have capitals on every word in the title, does that not make it more painful to type out? Not being rude, I genuinely want to know why folk do this.
 
I don't think many women could inflict much pain on a horse, not counting badly fitting tack, more of a yank on the headcollar, a slap, even pulling on the bit. Obviously hitting a fence doesn't cause a horse pain, if it did either they wouldn't hit it or they would refuse to jump. Lots of horse's don't like being hit with a stick, some will accept it as an aid and not be bothered, but used with more force they will react with a kick or a buck in a sort "don't do that" but I wouldn't class that as pain.

The skin flinch from a fly landing is a automatic skin reaction, not pain, it is an irritant.
 
For what it's worth, I believe that horses develop affection for trusted humans and even have a wish to please. The relationship is largely symbiotic, so unless it is viewed as being the same as a human to human relationship of domestic violence, it is not one based on us inflicting pain on the horse.
 
Actually I think Joe Public is pretty dense when it comes to equine pain. Animal rights activists are all over other species but when it comes to the racing industry they just seem to turn a blind eye. Animals getting whipped for human entertainment, and somehow that's alright in the eyes of the public. I seriously don't get that one.
 
I don't think its a bad question to ask or a bad thing to think about tbh. Of course if you're doing it well, none of it will cause pain but a lot of people would do well to examine how they handle and manage their horses to see if they could improve.
 
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