How much shoulder in to do

Mule

Mule

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I was wondering how much shoulder in I should do per schooling session (30 mins) to get most benefit. It might sound like an odd question but I'm never quite sure how much I should do. I usually do it about twice on each rein. Around 5 strides each. Would it be better to do more?
Actually come to think about it I've the same question about all lateral work.
 
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I think you have to look at the quality of the work done in shoulder in and your motivation for doing it.

If I want to just rehearse it for test practice or similar, then I'd aim to just ride a couple both ways of test quality and hopefully pat the horse and move on.

At the moment I'm using shoulder in to develop a better way of going on straight lines (more collection, cadence and straightness) and so I will ride it until I feel like the horse has accepted and bought into what I'm asking, maybe test that its had the effect I want by riding straight for a few minutes, come back to the shoulder in if we need a bit more help and go back and forth as necessary.

On the tb I rode him in shoulder in or shoulder fore for large parts of each session, from a control/focus/straightness point of view.

I think shoulder in and s-fore are unlike other lateral movements because it has a very clear positive impact on straightness and collection when ridden correctly and is also not too strenuous for a horse to do once it understands the concept.

You wouldn't want to ride 20 half passes one after the other but actually 10 laps in s-in/fore would not be so extreme!
 
Re-read your post, and spotted the 5 strides each time. Is there a reason you are making them so brief? On an established horse I would often use the whole long side if working it as an exercise rather than just quickly correcting something.

This gives time to prepare during the corner and then enough space to develop the work and improve it.
 
Echo what mp said.

I use shoulder fore a lot with Millie, particularly on the right rein. Infact, I pretty much ride permanently on the right rein at the moment with a very slight shoulder fore in mind, it’s really helped to get her straight and off the left shoulder. I also find it really helpful to put her in a slightly shoulder fore for transitions.
 
milliepops said:
I think you have to look at the quality of the work done in shoulder in and your motivation for doing it.

If I want to just rehearse it for test practice or similar, then I'd aim to just ride a couple both ways of test quality and hopefully pat the horse and move on.

At the moment I'm using shoulder in to develop a better way of going on straight lines (more collection, cadence and straightness) and so I will ride it until I feel like the horse has accepted and bought into what I'm asking, maybe test that its had the effect I want by riding straight for a few minutes, come back to the shoulder in if we need a bit more help and go back and forth as necessary.

On the tb I rode him in shoulder in or shoulder fore for large parts of each session, from a control/focus/straightness point of view.

I think shoulder in and s-fore are unlike other lateral movements because it has a very clear positive impact on straightness and collection when ridden correctly and is also not too strenuous for a horse to do once it understands the concept.

You wouldn't want to ride 20 half passes one after the other but actually 10 laps in s-in/fore would not be so extreme!
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Wow, I think we can manage some more then. I don't think I'll ask him for 10 laps though (he'd probably eat me!) I'm doing it for straightness and to get his hind end under him.
 
milliepops said:
Re-read your post, and spotted the 5 strides each time. Is there a reason you are making them so brief? On an established horse I would often use the whole long side if working it as an exercise rather than just quickly correcting something.

This gives time to prepare during the corner and then enough space to develop the work and improve it.
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I suppose I was just being conservative with the 5 strides. I didn't want to risk over taxing him.
 
mule said:
Wow, I think we can manage some more then. I don't think I'll ask him for 10 laps though (he'd probably eat me!) I'm doing it for straightness and to get his hind end under him.
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Definitely a bit more then. In a few strides you're only just getting started. You can ride so many things in shoulder in or shoulder fore when they become established, such as transitions, half halts, circles etc. And in all paces. 10 laps would be a bit of an exaggeration but I don't think any of my horses would have been concerned by it ;)
 
milliepops said:
Definitely a bit more then. In a few strides you're only just getting started. You can ride so many things in shoulder in or shoulder fore when they become established, such as transitions, circles etc. And in all paces. 10 laps would be a bit of an exaggeration but I don't think any of my horses would have been concerned by it ;)
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Good to know. We'll crack on so ?
 
scats said:
Echo what mp said.

I use shoulder fore a lot with Millie, particularly on the right rein. Infact, I pretty much ride permanently on the right rein at the moment with a very slight shoulder fore in mind, it’s really helped to get her straight and off the left shoulder. I also find it really helpful to put her in a slightly shoulder fore for transitions.
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Yes likewise. Actually had a bit of a revelation a couple of months ago that I now need to deliberately place Kira's outside shoulder slightly to the outside, I'm so accustomed to riding in s-fore it was quite strange to start with. But I suppose it shows she's really quite straight now ?
 
milliepops said:
Yes likewise. Actually had a bit of a revelation a couple of months ago that I now need to deliberately place Kira's outside shoulder slightly to the outside, I'm so accustomed to riding in s-fore it was quite strange to start with. But I suppose it shows she's really quite straight now ?
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I noticed you said you rode the tb in past tense. Do you not still have him (Darcy?)
 
I agree with everything MP said. When it comes to lateral work, well, all work really, you have to ask yourself what you are trying to achieve by doing the exercise, dont do it just to tick a box and move on. Shoulder in is an excellent exercise for so many things, but I dont think five strides on each rein is enough for the horse to even notice they are doing it.
 
My instructor has me doing shoulder in around four sides of the arena, sometimes for multiple laps, to straighten the horse and make him balance himself.

I would rarely do less than one long side on any horse, even if it drifts out from the boards on a baby.
.
 
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As much and as little as is needed. I use lateral movements a lot in all gaits, varying from just a single step with a “feeling” of the movement to a longside or I do them on a circle on the inside track.

Sometimes I do just a few steps, sometimes I don’t even do a visible movement but just find the feeling of it and that’s maybe just a single step. Sometimes I’ll do the whole longside, sometimes only half and then another lateral movement the other half, sometimes I’ll do the first third, straighten or do another lateral movement, and then the first again on the last third. And so on... Play with it and find what works and when. I find the transitions between movements and in and out of movements as beneficial as the movement itself.
 
AUB said:
As much and as little as is needed. I use lateral movements a lot in all gaits, varying from just a single step with a “feeling” of the movement to a longside or I do them on a circle on the inside track.

Sometimes I do just a few steps, sometimes I don’t even do a visible movement but just find the feeling of it and that’s maybe just a single step. Sometimes I’ll do the whole longside, sometimes only half and then another lateral movement the other half, sometimes I’ll do the first third, straighten or do another lateral movement, and then the first again on the last third. And so on... Play with it and find what works and when. I find the transitions between movements and in and out of movements as beneficial as the movement itself.
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We have moved on to this with my more experienced horse after a few weeks.
.
 
I tend to just do it along the long sides and do a few circuits on each rein, I use it for a number of reasons mainly for straightness and it is good for my Arabs suppleness as they tend to be tense and plank like sometimes, I often add some quarters in amongst it as well. They work well as anti spook exercises for me as well!!
 
scats said:
Echo what mp said.

I use shoulder fore a lot with Millie, particularly on the right rein. Infact, I pretty much ride permanently on the right rein at the moment with a very slight shoulder fore in mind, it’s really helped to get her straight and off the left shoulder. I also find it really helpful to put her in a slightly shoulder fore for transitions.
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I have a mare who tends to move to her right shoulder as a preference, so I thought shoulder in on the right rein would help her, and do less on the left rein. Have I got it the wrong way round? I'm not doing enough steps either at present as we are both learning. Started by doing it inhand so she got the idea, without hindrance from me.
 
I must try it on a circle today, it sounds difficult to do without falling in.
 
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mule said:
I must try it on a circle today, it sounds difficult to do without falling in.
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yeah take care to make sure you get the shoulder coming to the inside, rather than the quarters falling to the outside. I find it helpful to visualise the footfalls around the circle & how the hoofprints should look. to start with it might be easier to ride a sort of octagon shape of straight lines and little turns as this makes it easier to ride the shoulder-in, and then gradually turn it into a circle when you get the control you need.
 
magicmoments said:
I have a mare who tends to move to her right shoulder as a preference, so I thought shoulder in on the right rein would help her, and do less on the left rein. Have I got it the wrong way round? I'm not doing enough steps either at present as we are both learning. Started by doing it inhand so she got the idea, without hindrance from me.
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When my mare is ridden straight on the track on the right rein, she has a tendency to load onto the left shoulder, so I essentially am bringing that shoulder in slightly off the track and underneath me and asking her to push through more with the right hind.
 
Well, I have to say the mule is a little star ?
We did shoulder in on a circle, 20 m and 15 m, we did transitions in it, we did it on the 3/4 line. He didn't fall in once. He even tried to zoom over a jump in it :eek:I told him he was being overly ambitious :D

He was lovely and flexible afterwards, when we did some jumping without stirrups his back stayed nice and soft :cool:
I must start pushing ourselves to do new things now that his physical problems are fixed.

I have another question, I've been doing a bit of shoulder in to travers and back again recently. I had an horrific thought today; I thought back to when he was crooked
He used to go about with his arse pointed to the inside of the arena. Will too much travers encourage that? How much of it would be too much?
 
the main thing with that is - are you able to control it now? can you ask him to be straight when you aren't telling him to travers?
 
milliepops said:
the main thing with that is - are you able to control it now? can you ask him to be straight when you aren't telling him to travers?
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Yes, I made sure to bring him straight again after travers to make sure I'm not having the inward pointing arse problem.

I'm only doing travers in walk so far so I suppose I should try the other gaits? He won't trip and fall over if I do it in canter will he :eek:
Also your tip about making sure the hindquarters don't fall out on the circle in si was great. I could have seen that happening otherwise.
 
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I prefer shoulder-in to renvers and back to shoulder-in as it's the same concept but more obvious for the horse to stay on the same line but with different bend
 
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