How much will you tolerate with a stong horse?

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I think I may tolerate too much!?

What I want to know I guess, is what do you good riders do with a strong horse?

I find B very strong, he's ok SJ now, I think he thinks it's bring now he gets to go XC! I really think he would carry on galloping until he dropped dead - he just loves it!!

I piss about with various kinds of snaffles as I'm worried other bits are too much for him, am I being soft??

What would you do??
 
My strong horse went in strong bits. I like to be in total control xc, it's too dangerous a sport to not have the ability to slow down, turn or pull up when needed.
I hated xcing him when he was on a really strong day, sometimes I'd just lose him and we'd have some very hairy moments. He lived to go fast and he was very intelligent with his legs but he did tip up a couple of times.
 
you don't get good times xc or go round safely unless your brakes work. I wouldn't want to fight a strong horse xc I would therefore use an appropirate bit, e.g running gag or vulcanite pelham.
 
For me, there is a very fine line between keen, and darn right strong. Vvery keen I can cope with as long as I can check the horse before a fence, or pull up. If not then I really don't feel comfortable or safe - they often end up running on the forehand which is even worse.
 
Sounds a bit like my Irish Cob when I first brought him, he is now an absolute angel.

I did loads of transition work, bounce poles and grid work and put him in a straight bar snaffle and i used loads and loads of half halts in his schooling and also flexing your hands on the reins, pole work is so valuable to slow horses down and so are 10m circles.

My boy is now an angel, although he does got carried away sometimes but is so easy to bring back under control now. He does all three disciplines and does very well for his size in all of them.

Hope this of some help, it is a long slow road but you should get there with patience. Don't over bit as this may cause him to run away from the bit. I never ride any of my horses in anything other than snaffles, except where I have too use a double bridle.

Try and go X Country schooling and practice the above, treat it like a schooling session in a school.
 
i'm with Boss on this one, i want total control xc. i'm not afraid to use a strong bit to teach/impress a horse into respecting me, i think it's better than having to haul on a snaffle!
i cannot stand horses leaning on me, or being towed into fences, or dodgy steering either! for me to be happy, the horse has to accept my input... after all, i know what's coming, he didn't get to walk it first! i think strong horses that don't listen are downright dangerous, i love keen horses that accept my input though.
 
I said in the other post - did the Myler work??? I hope so!!!

Vic, he's one of those anoying horses where if you put something hard on his mouth it's too much for him and/or cuts his mouth.
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I've never tried a running gag though, like I said, I'm too soft!!

On the other hand most strong bits I've tried have been hunting, but they might be fine for XC?
 
He is not dangerous, I promise!! He has done 3 seasons over some big walls (with no boots on
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) the guy knows to get his legs out of the way.
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I know we need to step it up to do novice though.
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Better to over bit and only need a touch, than under bit and spend your time hauling
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Unles overbitted so much that it restricts the horse...

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...and causes it to chuck its head in your face, breaking your nose and start leaping like a loon LOL!
 
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Better to over bit and only need a touch, than under bit and spend your time hauling
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Unles overbitted so much that it restricts the horse...

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...and causes it to chuck its head in your face, breaking your nose and start leaping like a loon LOL!

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Got it in one
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In what way is he strong ? Sorry does that sound stupid...Head up, head down etc etc .....


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Head up, a bit but not a lot, but legs keep going!
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Only bit that has made a difference is a American gag with 2 rains. I used this hunting but felt he wasn't quite right in it, but he also fell in a bog so not sure if that was it!
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He didn't feel as confident after? He's over whatever it was but I'm soooo paranoid about over biting him.
 
Do you XC him in that Mexican noseband?

Not sure what to suggest .... maybe give that American Gag another whirl if it worked out hunting.. guess there is only one way to find out !!!
 
With P, although very different situation to you I put him in a strong curb bit occasionaly to get him to remember respect. I don't like using a string bit regularly as I'm not confident in how good my hands are. My old pony' I hunted- She was very strong for 7 YO me, we tried her in one bit, a Dutch gagwith double reins, but mainly using the bottom rein and she hated it, didn't go fowards atall and jumped in the air when I tried to collect her. Some bits Pip really dislikes too and does a similar thing.
If the horse is strong, your hands are good or its dangerous because you lack contol using a strong bit is surly the best thing. Its so stupid people use a snaffle when they clearly arent in control with it because they think people will look down on them for not having a snaffle.
 
Give your american gag a go - but just the top rein through the martingale! If I'm unsure how much bitting a horse will need I often go for a Cheltenham or Nelson gag with two reins then you have a bit of option how much leverage you use, and if you find the horse is generally being pretty polite you can ride on the top rein and save the bottom one for emergencies.
A lot of people hate XCing in two reins though so it's personal preference.
 
Badger has never been dangerous, honestly!! He's just f*cking hard work!!

I'm going to see how the Myler combination works, if not the bugger is going back to a gag of some sort!
 
Thanks BG. Which is more strong, a cheltenham gag or an american one? I did a bit of machanics in my maths degree and I would have thought a cheltenham gag is stronger??? There is no stop to the leaverage??

Think it's an idea to go back to that though, the boy was a bit upset when he fell in the bog, he called to me and everything! Bless.
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I'm just not sure I have as good hands as you and don't want to stop his uber confidence!
 
I use a waterford in a dutch gag thing with mine on 2 reins, he is strong but not stupid when jumping so the snaffle rein does but for the bigger fences I usually need that little extra with the 2nd ring to just say "Oi, get back here a little!!"
 
PF absolutely will not stop or steer properly in a short shank myler combination. She does go very well in a tom thumb and she also went well in a happy mouth dutch gag. A loves his single link dutch gag (although I've tried him a pelham, kimblewick and hanging cheek french link) and doesn't like happy mouth bits at all.
Horses are just WEIRD!
 
Havn't read all the posts so sorry if this has been suggested but i'd highly recommend trying a Neule Scheule Universal. Not all strong bits have to be harsh. Rock used to be a nightmare XC so so strong but he'd run on his forehand with his head right down - so a gag just made him worse. I tried every snaffle/noseband combo (over a good couple of years this is) and i tried a waterford, dutch gag - nothing worked. Then a friend sold me a NS Universal second hand for like 20quid (bargain) and its transformed him. He goes XC with the rein on the bottom ring, showjumps with the rein on the snaffle ring and hacks with roundings! it's great!
 
I find my horse incredibly strong xc. I used to try and control it all the time and it just made it worse. Now however I let him find his own rhythm and only take a hold before fences. There is far less fighting and we have a far better balance and rhythm over fences. I have him in a 3-ring bubble bit with a french link mouthpiece but with a leather curb strap too. This is just a strap from a breastplate attached under the jaw between the top rings where the cheek pieces are attached to. It seems to work. I think it's a case of experimenting and finding what works and suits you both. If he's too strong in a snaffle I would step up a notch and try a stronger bit - it needs to be pleasant for you both or you'll just end up scaring yourselves. Trick is to also keep the fences on the smaller side until you are in control.
 
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Waterford snaffle cuts his mouth.
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Sounds like you have the same problem I do!! I have tried loads of different bits and usually end up back with the waterford though... have you tried putting latex bandage just near the rigs, that might stop the pinch.. I keep meaning to do this but haven't yet, I also wondered if the fulmer version might not pinch, so minimise the splits, but again not tried it yet!

Mine will go well in waterford snaffle but if he has a strong day its pretty useless, if I use the dutch gag waterford I have more control but usually a shredded mouth!!

Rubber pelham is good some days useless on others!!

Myler combination not bad but only short shank so not quite enough... haven't tried the longer one but it did stop him shaking his head to get the reins out of my hands!!

I have just started trying him without the flash / grackle and actually he does seem a bit more relaxed in his mouth!

I am thinking of trying a french link mouthpiece pelham if I can get hold of one...

Mine was crap in a cheltenham gag, he just poked his nose out and I had no steering!!

Also just started schooling in a double bridle which feels good and I am tempted to try XC in that next year!
 
My 14.2 is deceptively strong, I dont muck around with bits and I hate schooling, so my friend who loves schooling, practices LOTS of transitions, it doesnt mean is is remarkably better in the ring SJ, but he has definately improved.

Other than that I stick a hackamore on. Or use different nosebands. I also fine riding him differently, more relaxed and giving has helped as I am typically heavy handed rider with fast things usually!

Find only control gadget is martingale and three ring gag..double bridle or pelham may as well not have been there!! Some poll action helps big time.
 
I hunt and do xc in different bits (unless I'm on a sensible horse that does everything in a snaffle, not that likely!!). There completely different, one lasts about 5-6mins (one days) and hunting is all day and they can be knackered at the end of hunting but still full of running at the end of xc.
I hunt my strong horse in either a kienton noseband or pelham but I xc in a balding gag. He is very unusual in that I only pick up a proper contact when I need it. So galloping leave him alone, simple fence just check a little and if complex steady and contact and he knows this means concentrate as more than one and he does.
But its finding what suits the horse and it took me nearly 2 seasons faffing around
 
Just a point re. waterfords cutting mouths, which seems to be a common problem. I was always told to buy a waterford 1/4" bigger than you would a normal bit to make sure this doesn't happen. I think because there's more play in the mouth they can tend to get a bit shorter when in use and pinch the lips. I also often use bit rings or a full cheek version for this reason.
 
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