How NOT to ride a young horse forward.

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I think we should also be grateful to fate along with the fact these people did not have a brain cell between them. They pick the horse up on the Sunday, sedate, clip & RECORD their abuse of him, even mention his name (which was their undoing) put it on UTUBE public long enough for someone with enough intelligence to get a copy. Someone else puts it on a CLOSED page on FB on the Monday where it is then viewed by a few people some of whome share it on their timeline. Someone else from the closed page then puts it on here. In the meantime someone who would normally not be on the PC sees the video hears the name contacts the owner. And 24hrs later he is back home safe & sound! I have already said my thank you's and the fact that the internet can be used for some good. But I also thank fate and the fact that there are people who care, and dealers who do NOT abuse their animals. Good luck Tic Toc, fate looked after you may it continue.
 
On the subject of detective work,those HHOers who are also HHO CSI members could maybe do a little groundwork as to who the-people-who-shall-not-be-named are on here? I reckon a look back at any threads that mentions any of their real life names & a scrutinisation of any new posters who pop up to unfailingly praise those accused people, on those threads, may narrow the net a bit..??? :D
 
kirstykate said:
I am NOT condoning this behavior at all, but we dont have the full facts, how do what not know that this is not the last stop saloon for a serial bucker? The horse may already be damaged goods and they are trying to fix the problem before it goes in a hole?
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Because hitting it like that to make it buck is never going to teach it not to buck. You can't punish an animal before it does something wrong as it will never know why it's being punished.
 
kirstykate it saddens me to read your comments, as it shows a total lack of understanding. First off even if he was a "serial bucker" considering most bucking behaviour is pain related what use is hitting the animal. And what has been pointed out time and again is this horse was being hit even when he was NOT bucking. I am sure there are others here who have had issues with a horse only to find it had muscle damage or kissing spine or a saddle that did not fit, or a wolf tooth. Sometimes it is learned behaviour. What checks could possibly have been done by these dealers from picking him up, sedating him, cliping him, then getting on his back and hitting him. Anyone who tries to make an excuse for the treatment of this horse needs to walk away from horses. You are not fit to be handling them, end of. There is NO excuse, none what so ever. The background was given way back in this thread if anyone making excuses could be bothered to read them.
 
Bob Smith is a complete star :)

I do think that thanks should also go out to the young lady who first put the original video up on Facebook, she was a little worried as she is local to the scumbags and was concerned about repercussions but posted it anyway.

Also just wanted to say that the video has already reached Australia :)

The power of the internet at it's very very best :)
 
First off i do not condone ANY form of cruelty on ANY animal and having read a lot on this case elsewhere such as youtube facebook etc im sorry but it does pose the question , why did the horses owners sell him to a dealer ? We are being led to believe Ticktocks owner let someone else (his breeder) make that decision for them ? So was he completely unaware of where his horse was going ? Now earlier in this post i did ask if it was true that his owner had intended putting him to sleep and got a dead pan reply of no it wasnt from someone who wasnt ticktocks owner - as i have stressed already i do not condone any form of cruelty however as an individual i am entitled as everyone else on here is also to my own opinions and ask questions - why was the horse sold to a dealer in the first place ?
 
Ultimately whatever the truth behind this Ticktock is safe now and as i pointed out again in another earlier post i am sure now he is famous he will have thousands of people willing to offer him a good home. If he were mine and i had sold him for all this to happen for sure i would not be letting him out my sight again but obviously everyone is different
 
heroandleander said:
First off i do not condone ANY form of cruelty on ANY animal and having read a lot on this case elsewhere such as youtube facebook etc im sorry but it does pose the question , why did the horses owners sell him to a dealer ? We are being led to believe Ticktocks owner let someone else (his breeder) make that decision for them ? So was he completely unaware of where his horse was going ? Now earlier in this post i did ask if it was true that his owner had intended putting him to sleep and got a dead pan reply of no it wasnt from someone who wasnt ticktocks owner - as i have stressed already i do not condone any form of cruelty however as an individual i am entitled as everyone else on here is also to my own opinions and ask questions - why was the horse sold to a dealer in the first place ?
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Signed up just to comment here, who are you really? The dealer said it was his last chance or he was going to be PTS. What does it matter if that was true? Because even if he had issues with bucking, they are still hitting him when he stops. He was never ridden just hit & hit & hit. We now know that he was also sedated. So please do not keep harping on about why he was sold to a dealer or if he was going to be PTS. 1000's of horses are sold to dealers and thankfully most do not abuse their horses. Lets face it plenty goes on behind closed doors especially with private homes, so why are you trying to make out that this is the owners fault? And the question of why he was sold to a dealer in the first instance has already been explained in an earlier post by the owner, suggest you take the time to back and read through. The only other comment made with PTS in was mine when I said the owner "Would rather have put him to sleep then see him end up like this" or words to that affect.
 
magic104 said:
Signed up just to comment here, who are you really? The dealer said it was his last chance or he was going to be PTS. What does it matter if that was true? Because even if he had issues with bucking, they are still hitting him when he stops. He was never ridden just hit & hit & hit. We now know that he was also sedated. So please do not keep harping on about why he was sold to a dealer or if he was going to be PTS. 1000's of horses are sold to dealers and thankfully most do not abuse their horses. Lets face it plenty goes on behind closed doors especially with private homes, so why are you trying to make out that this is the owners fault? And the question of why he was sold to a dealer in the first instance has already been explained in an earlier post by the owner, suggest you take the time to back and read through. The only other comment made with PTS in was mine when I said the owner "Would rather have put him to sleep then see him end up like this" or words to that affect.
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First off i did NOT sign up here just to comment here so please check facts before jumping in , i have nothing to do with dealer owner or any other person involved to suggest i do is paranoia as i stated there are many threads over fb and yt of which i was ref i have not once stated that what happened to this horse was the owners fault so please do not put words into my mouth , i do not condone nor appreciate ANY cruelty to any animal as i also clearly stated and just because a person isnt automatically jumping on the band wagon does not mean they do ! I can see for myself what everyone else can see when they watch the video however AS I AM ENTITLED TO i do not think this story is as cut and dried as made out and for having my own opinion as kirstykate did earlier i should not be attacked.
 
heroandleander said:
First off i do not condone ANY form of cruelty on ANY animal and having read a lot on this case elsewhere such as youtube facebook etc im sorry but it does pose the question , why did the horses owners sell him to a dealer ? We are being led to believe Ticktocks owner let someone else (his breeder) make that decision for them ? So was he completely unaware of where his horse was going ? Now earlier in this post i did ask if it was true that his owner had intended putting him to sleep and got a dead pan reply of no it wasnt from someone who wasnt ticktocks owner - as i have stressed already i do not condone any form of cruelty however as an individual i am entitled as everyone else on here is also to my own opinions and ask questions - why was the horse sold to a dealer in the first place ?
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WTF why do I have to defend our actions .We were duped by the dealer as he uses a succession of females to buy horses .If you think for one minute I would have knowingly sold a horse to Paul Clarke under any of his guises be it imperial horses or LLF sport horses think again and if that was his only option I would happily have shot him myself! I was trying to do the best for the horse and give him a chance he is not easy to market as although he is very well bred his size 15hh and age make him not a very attractive proposition. If he was 8 or 9 I could have sold him easily and they would have been queing up at my door. He was not the result of indiscriminate breeding and it is just unfortunate for him that he is being sold at a time when people dont want horses .Do you honestly think I invest in excess of £4k in buying a 2yo and then get him professionally backed to sell him to scum like them.If you do Crawl back under your stone !!!
 
popsdosh said:
WTF why do I have to defend our actions .We were duped by the dealer as he uses a succession of females to buy horses .If you think for one minute I would have knowingly sold a horse to Paul Clarke under any of his guises be it imperial horses or LLF sport horses think again and if that was his only option I would happily have shot him myself! I was trying to do the best for the horse and give him a chance he is not easy to market as although he is very well bred his size 15hh and age make him not a very attractive proposition. If he was 8 or 9 I could have sold him easily and they would have been queing up at my door. He was not the result of indiscriminate breeding and it is just unfortunate for him that he is being sold at a time when people dont want horses .Do you honestly think I invest in excess of £4k in buying a 2yo and then get him professionally backed to sell him to scum like them.If you do Crawl back under your stone !!!
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Well im glad to hear it as if you HAD knowingly sold to these people then im sure it should be you who would now be crawling back under your stone ! Perhaps the best advice would be to report said woman you sold the horse to as if she lied about who she was surely there can be criminal proceedings to undertake ? And surely anyone reading your plight over this forum other forums fb and yt has a right to ask questions ? No ? No freedom of speech here ? If i was the owner of a horse and saw that happen to him in a video i would not be responsible for my actions i too would feel sickened as everyone else on here is just because i have the audacity to ask why he was sold to a dealer does not make me a sympathiser of said dealer or someone in disguise it means because its on a public forum i have the same right as everyone else to ask the obvious.
 
popsdosh said:
WTF why do I have to defend our actions .We were duped by the dealer as he uses a succession of females to buy horses .If you think for one minute I would have knowingly sold a horse to Paul Clarke under any of his guises be it imperial horses or LLF sport horses think again and if that was his only option I would happily have shot him myself! I was trying to do the best for the horse and give him a chance he is not easy to market as although he is very well bred his size 15hh and age make him not a very attractive proposition. If he was 8 or 9 I could have sold him easily and they would have been queing up at my door. He was not the result of indiscriminate breeding and it is just unfortunate for him that he is being sold at a time when people dont want horses .Do you honestly think I invest in excess of £4k in buying a 2yo and then get him professionally backed to sell him to scum like them.If you do Crawl back under your stone !!!
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Going way off topic, don't know if you are aware, but there are many dressage riders seeking small horses ie under 16hh. I'm guessing a 15h 4 yr old warmblood has a good chance of making 15.2, and then into hens teeth category for petite dressage riders.
 
heroandleander said:
First off i did NOT sign up here just to comment here so please check facts before jumping in , i have nothing to do with dealer owner or any other person involved to suggest i do is paranoia as i stated there are many threads over fb and yt of which i was ref i have not once stated that what happened to this horse was the owners fault so please do not put words into my mouth , i do not condone nor appreciate ANY cruelty to any animal as i also clearly stated and just because a person isnt automatically jumping on the band wagon does not mean they do ! I can see for myself what everyone else can see when they watch the video however AS I AM ENTITLED TO i do not think this story is as cut and dried as made out and for having my own opinion as kirstykate did earlier i should not be attacked.
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Well you have it from the horses mouth now. I will not back away from the question of PTS you seem very keen to have answered. My personal view is if you cannot find a suitable safe home for your horse and you are not able to give it a life I would not have any other option.As has been shown by these events you never know where they end up! As I stated above Tic toc had cost about £4k up to now do you not think I was trying my best to find a home.There is evidence elsewhere on this forum of my efforts in that respect
 
heroandleander said:
Well im glad to hear it as if you HAD knowingly sold to these people then im sure it should be you who would now be crawling back under your stone ! Perhaps the best advice would be to report said woman you sold the horse to as if she lied about who she was surely there can be criminal proceedings to undertake ? And surely anyone reading your plight over this forum other forums fb and yt has a right to ask questions ? No ? No freedom of speech here ? If i was the owner of a horse and saw that happen to him in a video i would not be responsible for my actions i too would feel sickened as everyone else on here is just because i have the audacity to ask why he was sold to a dealer does not make me a sympathiser of said dealer or someone in disguise it means because its on a public forum i have the same right as everyone else to ask the obvious.
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I'm also fairly local to the couple in the video. They are notorious and have been repeatedly reported to various authorities. The woman videoing has done time (reported in H+H) for tack theft. Sadly, they are quite convincing. The woman even managed to rent some stables from a well known equestrian centre (owners not idiots) before they found out her past.
 
I think that there is always a home for a horse even if it means a financial loss , i think the main objective here is that the horse is now safe and sound and as i said earlier with the interest now in Ticktock i am sure a great home could now be found for him
 
Of course it is true , why would taking a financial loss on a horse prevent you from finding a good home ? Also how many people on this forum could offer him a good home ? Im sure there would be plenty willing to do so
 
heroandleander said:
I think that there is always a home for a horse even if it means a financial loss , i think the main objective here is that the horse is now safe and sound and as i said earlier with the interest now in Ticktock i am sure a great home could now be found for him
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As you can see I was taking a huge financial lose selling as I did, as you know they will only pay peanuts ! Would not even cover a few bales of haylage im afraid.
 
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Well amymay what the hell does it have to do with you either lol ? Im not 'grilling' ticktocks owner im asking questions which ticktocks owner is happy to answer , this person doesnt have anything to hide and like you i am posting on this forum out of interest for the horse
 
heroandleander said:
Well amymay what the hell does it have to do with you either lol ? Im not 'grilling' ticktocks owner im asking questions which ticktocks owner is happy to answer , this person doesnt have anything to hide and like you i am posting on this forum out of interest for the horse
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You are grilling the horses owner. You are insinuating that they are somehow at fault here - which they clearly are not.

It has nothing to do with me other than feeling rather saddened that a poster would make insinuations about this poster, the situation, and the outcome.

Below the belt, and really uncalled for.

If you want to troll, do it either on another post or another site.
 
Where at any point have i insinuated anything amymay ? That there could land you in trouble on a forum like this , i have not insinuated nor accused nor grilled i have asked questions which ticktocks owner has been happy to answer
 
Dont we think TicTocks owner has had enough ? you cannot know every scum bag in the UK connected with horses - how many folk get duped by back people, dentists, saddlers, buyers and sellers?

People like the scum involved with the abuse of this young feller - are convincing, manipulative and wholly beleavable, they are professional CON people - if they had scum tattooed on their head, you may have a chance !
 
heroandleander said:
Where at any point have i insinuated anything amymay ? That there could land you in trouble on a forum like this , i have not insinuated nor accused nor grilled i have asked questions which ticktocks owner has been happy to answer
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Your posts are full of insinuations.

As I said, if you want to troll - please do it elsewhere.
 
amymay said:
You are grilling the horses owner. You are insinuating that they are somehow at fault here - which they clearly are not.

It has nothing to do with me other than feeling rather saddened that a poster would make insinuations about this poster, the situation, and the outcome.

Below the belt, and really uncalled for.

If you want to troll, do it either on another post or another site.
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Agree - 100%. TicToc's owner did the best possible for the horse - and was deceived! It happens! But immediately the outcome became obvious, acted quickly to save the horse. All praise due - and cross-examination is absolutely uncalled for!!
 
heroandleander said:
I think that there is always a home for a horse even if it means a financial loss
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Oh I do agree with you. There is!

I sold a ten year old horse with spavins, on my vet's instructions to get him off hills, for £500, to an immaculate yard with two outdoor arenas, wonderfullly fenced paddocks, a lovely owner who gave me references and brought a livery with her to vouch for her. She showed me photos of his stable already made up with a huge bed. She paid £300 to have him professionally transported to her yard.

And she threw him out into a field with no food in November, December and January and starved him to the point of emaciation.

It's ALWAYS possible to find a home for a horse, and you never know how good that home will actually turn out to be.

Get off your preaching stool now, please.

Tic Toc's owner has done her best. It's the dealer here who was scum.
 
Heroandleander-I also don't see how most of your questions are 'out of interest for the horse'. Do u mean your questions are 'in the horse's interests' (if so,I fail to see how) or that you are interested in buying the horse(if the latter,PM the owner,surely?).
 
Heroleander - have you stopped to think about how the horses owner might be feeling right now? They were doing what they thought was best for the horse. This has been a hugely upsetting experience for all involved, but at least the horse is safe now and the scum have been 'outed' once more. I think the grilling (and yes, it is grilling) should stop now.
 
horseandleader- so no horse should EVER be sold to a dealer and no horse should EVER be PTS rather than sold?

If I'm reading what you're writing correctly that is what you are saying?
 
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