How NOT to ride a young horse forward.

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Fine and dandy unless you know something more about this than the video shows then we are both are in the dark to the circomstances leading up the the video being taken.

I can understand hiting the horse to make it go forward when its bucking or cat leaping as forward impulsion counteracts lateral movement - but why this dude was hitting the horse when it was just walking I cant understand.

My point is that that in other circomstances people are activly encouraged to whip there horses regardless if they are doing anything right or wrong - Yes Racing - its not right in my book to whip a horse for doing nothing wrong , so if your going to take this guy to court then is the jockey club co-accused ?
 
lloyd said:
Excessive use of the whip is shocking in all circumstances , however it could be argued on the basis of this video in a court enviroment that it was being used as a corrective aid , unlike our racing friends who whip there horses even when they are doing the right thing and giving everything that have got.

I cant imagine this 51 seconds of video tells us the full story guys , but regardless he went too far.
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Correcting WHAT, exactly? More than once that horse stopped in confusion, or went forward for a step WITHOUT A BUCK, and was then hit AGAIN, causing more bucking. It looked as if he was trying to teach it to buck fgs. Or, trying to break its spirit so that it would never buck again. Goading the horse to buck more... fgs. That is not training.
The previous history is not necessary for anyone who can read a horse's body language, but when it is known (previous public vids of horse going sweetly under rider) it is even more damning.
The full story? I suspect it is probably worse. I suspect the horse was remounted and subjected to further abuse after ditching the rider at the end of that video. Perhaps it was thrashed in the stable later. Perhaps it was given similar treatment the next day. I ****ing well hope not, for the horse's sake.
As for it allegedly being a 'bad 'un'... I have told the owner, in person, that I will happily get on that horse myself, without a whip. I would happily lay my reputation (and my safety, I know!) that if ridden sweetly forward, with legs and voice only, there will not be any problem. That is not a bad horse.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd
however it could be argued on the basis of this video in a court enviroment that it was being used as a corrective aid , unlike our racing friends who whip there horses even when they are doing the right thing and giving everything that have got.

I cant imagine this 51 seconds of video tells us the full story guys , but regardless he went too far.

Are you in any way serious??

....... yeah I am, your point ?
 
I normally follow and read posts on here as opposed to constructing my own, but I feel I ought to say something on this.

I have been interested in Imperial Horses Ltd for a while after buying a horse from them. They often have a number of quality looking horses in that seem genuine and sound uncomplicated. On many occasions the horses often have a quick turnaround time, typically within a week. The reason for my interest was because I had problems with my horse, I asked for help with no such luck.

I moved across the country earlier in the year onto a yard where by pure coincidence the yard owner had happened to buy a horse from Imperial Horses Ltd. a few years ago. They had untold problems with trying to get the horse. The dealers wouldn't allow the current owners chosen vet on site to undertake the vetting so legal advice was undertaken in order to do so, as a deposit had already been secured against the horse. Once access was gained for the vetting, after explicit instructions on keeping the horse stabled, the current owner arrived early to find the horse on the horse walker! They were offered a choice of two passports for the horse depending on what name they preferred!!! (I presume this was offered before the vetting!). At the time the dealer could not offer a coherent answer on where she got the horse from or how long she had had it. Each time she was asked the story was different on each occasion. Even after these years the horse is still untrusting and has blatantly been badly beaten at some point.

At the time there were also two vehicles on site with the same registration plates!

I am simply stating what I know. Not speculating.
 
Sorry Lloyd, this is getting ridiculous. This is not about Jockey Club rules but clear abuse of a horse.

If you want to compare the two, start a new thread.
 
lloyd said:
Fine and dandy unless you know something more about this than the video shows then we are both are in the dark to the circomstances leading up the the video being taken.

I can understand hiting the horse to make it go forward when its bucking or cat leaping as forward impulsion counteracts lateral movement - but why this dude was hitting the horse when it was just walking I cant understand.

My point is that that in other circomstances people are activly encouraged to whip there horses regardless if they are doing anything right or wrong - Yes Racing - its not right in my book to whip a horse for doing nothing wrong , so if your going to take this guy to court then is the jockey club co-accused ?
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Agreed
 
lloyd said:
Fine and dandy unless you know something more about this than the video shows then we are both are in the dark to the circomstances leading up the the video being taken.

I can understand hiting the horse to make it go forward when its bucking or cat leaping as forward impulsion counteracts lateral movement - but why this dude was hitting the horse when it was just walking I cant understand.

My point is that that in other circomstances people are activly encouraged to whip there horses regardless if they are doing anything right or wrong - Yes Racing - its not right in my book to whip a horse for doing nothing wrong , so if your going to take this guy to court then is the jockey club co-accused ?
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I don't . What I am saying is that on the basis of your post, a whip is used as a corrective aid. When the horse is behaving, what exactly is the use of the whip going to correct? Just because other people in different circumstances are, in your words, actively encouraged to whip horses regardless, does it make it right for that to be the case in any other circumstances?

Of course not. If people have evidence of this type of behaviour going on in other circumstances, then perhaps they should come forward ad make it available for the relevant repercussions to be felt. I don't see what racing, the Jockey Club etc has to do with being co-accused in this particular case.

I am not taking these people to court; read my post properly, you will see I said that is how I would present my case :)
 
by the way, a HUGE and heartfelt THANK YOU to HHO Admin for allowing this post to stay. Please play nicely, guys. We don't want there to be a reason to pull the post.

lej09, similar stories are cropping up. there's one much earlier in the thread that is very similar to your own. :( :( :(
I just want to state that this is not a vendetta, I have never had any dealings with any of these people. It just sickens me that they make money out of horses when they abuse and exploit them so blatantly. Sickening. I hope they give up the horse world and move onto vehicles - they can still swindle people to their hearts' content, but no animals will be harmed.
 
kerilli said:
Correcting WHAT, exactly? More than once that horse stopped in confusion, or went forward for a step WITHOUT A BUCK, and was then hit AGAIN, causing more bucking. It looked as if he was trying to teach it to buck fgs. Or, trying to break its spirit so that it would never buck again. Goading the horse to buck more... fgs. That is not training.
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Quite.
 
kerilli said:
by the way, a HUGE and heartfelt THANK YOU to HHO Admin for allowing this post to stay. Please play nicely, guys. We don't want there to be a reason to pull the post.

lej09, similar stories are cropping up. there's one much earlier in the thread that is very similar to your own. :( :( :(
I just want to state that this is not a vendetta, I have never had any dealings with any of these people. It just sickens me that they make money out of horses when they abuse and exploit them so blatantly. Sickening. I hope they give up the horse world and move onto vehicles - they can still swindle people to their hearts' content, but no animals will be harmed.
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Second that.
 
vam said:
But you didn’t need to ask the questions. The first to do with why he was there in the first place was answered by the original owner earlier in the thread.
The second wasn’t relevant to the situation, to be honest neither was the first.
While you say that you are not probing there is a time and a place for such question and this is probably not it, as has also been said it isn’t really anyone’s business. It doesn’t matter why the horse was there, he was and was subjected to inexcusable abuse.

I have been keeping an eye on this and am immensely pleased he is home safe,
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The owner said he had been 'duped' into selling the horse to this dealer and had sold to a woman pretending to be someone else to which i suggested he could surely take legal action against if that were the case , also if you note from my earlier posts i asked whether the owner had said he was putting the horse to sleep as it has been suggested on other forums that that was his/her intention. Further from that i have answered ridiculous accusations insinuations and well just plain rubbish. Also i agree with Lloyd in that we only see a short clip and as for the videos on youtube of the horse before i think is irrelevant as again it is a short video clip. This is a public forum i am allowed an opinion as do the pirelli nuts
 
amymay said:
Sorry Lloyd, this is getting ridiculous. This is not about Jockey Club rules but clear abuse of a horse.

If you want to compare the two, start a new thread.
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Sorry Amy are you the forum police ? If so can I get a pass to post on this thread ?

I am making the point that if you consider that at this time whipping a horse for doing nothing wrong is abuse then we must agree that there is hypocrisy in the " Yeah you can hit a horse for doing nothing wrong after this point here for x amount of furlongs until this point here x amount of times."

In showjumping I dont see people whipping there horses for not making mistakes.
 
I read that post. It seems to be a common occurrence. It just shows how many years this has been happening and with so many people.

You will be pleased to know that my friends horse is doing well despite his dark unknown history. He is still very shy and nervous, even with his owner, but it hasn't stopped them. At least he has a good home for life now!
 
kerilli said:
by the way, a HUGE and heartfelt THANK YOU to HHO Admin for allowing this post to stay. Please play nicely, guys. We don't want there to be a reason to pull the post.

lej09, similar stories are cropping up. there's one much earlier in the thread that is very similar to your own. :( :( :(
I just want to state that this is not a vendetta, I have never had any dealings with any of these people. It just sickens me that they make money out of horses when they abuse and exploit them so blatantly. Sickening. I hope they give up the horse world and move onto vehicles - they can still swindle people to their hearts' content, but no animals will be harmed.
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Well said Kerilli
 
kerilli said:
If anyone wants to report the video, the page to register to report it online with the RSPCA is here
https://www.rspca.org.uk/login?p_p_id=58*_58_redirect=/myrspca

I hope that the more people that report it, the more chance that something long-term will be done about these people. Tick Tock is safe from further VILE treatment, but other horses won't be so lucky. :( :( :(
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Done.


Have been following this and had to add this:

My feelings about the people responsible for this abuse is that they
are the perfect example of the human trash in this world. I would love to vent my feelings on here but would end up being banned and I'm not going to give them the satisfaction. They WILL get your just deserts. Everyone now knows who they are and the you tube video has gone worldwide. Is also posted on a very well know Dutch forum so hopefully they will no longer be able to buy from anyone over here.

Well done Bob Smith for making this public. You are a true hero and well done Tic Toc's owner for acting so quick. I'm relieved he is out of their hands. You have my full support in any action you take. Just wish I had my own land as I'd be on the ferry to come and pick him up. He looks such a sweetie![/SIZE]
 
Ok, I give up.

Clearly the horse is dangerous. Deserved its beating, and the beating it probably received afterwards.

The people on here who know the horse and the owners, clearly don't know them as well as they think they do.

And the two dissenting posters are right.

In showjumping I dont see people whipping there horses for not making mistakes.
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And if this made any kind of sense, I may be able to understand what you're trying to say.....

And no I'm not the forum police. I just don't understand what Jockey Club rules has to do with this thread.
 
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heroandleander said:
The owner said he had been 'duped' into selling the horse to this dealer and had sold to a woman pretending to be someone else to which i suggested he could surely take legal action against if that were the case , also if you note from my earlier posts i asked whether the owner had said he was putting the horse to sleep as it has been suggested on other forums that that was his/her intention. Further from that i have answered ridiculous accusations insinuations and well just plain rubbish. Also i agree with Lloyd in that we only see a short clip and as for the videos on youtube of the horse before i think is irrelevant as again it is a short video clip. This is a public forum i am allowed an opinion as do the pirelli nuts
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So people don't agree with you (you still haven't answered my post :) ) and we are called Pirelli nuts?

Just as well I don't like tyre nuts really...:D

lloyd said:
Sorry Amy are you the forum police ? If so can I get a pass to post on this thread ?

I am making the point that if you consider that at this time whipping a horse for doing nothing wrong is abuse then we must agree that there is hypocrisy in the " Yeah you can hit a horse for doing nothing wrong after this point here for x amount of furlongs until this point here x amount of times."

In showjumping I dont see people whipping there horses for not making mistakes.
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Funnily enough, I can think of some high profile show jumpers who had bad publicity for doing just that. An incident at Hickstead springs to mind.

As far as I can see, amymay is making the point that unless you know something we all don't, the Jockey Club etc is nothing to do with this, and to make sure that the thread remains, to start a separate thread should you wish to draw a comparison between the two :)
 
heroandleander said:
Only ignorance! Don't you know it is the worst thing in the world, next to wickedness?" !
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I think you'll find that ignorance is bliss actually H&L

And there are a lot worse things in the world than a little wickedness. Evil like the behaviour of those dealers would be one example.


People, don't hold out hope for a prosecution. The publication of the video after it was made private by the owner of it was copyright violation and it will probably not be admissible as evidence.
 
lloyd said:
Sorry Amy are you the forum police ? If so can I get a pass to post on this thread ?

I am making the point that if you consider that at this time whipping a horse for doing nothing wrong is abuse then we must agree that there is hypocrisy in the " Yeah you can hit a horse for doing nothing wrong after this point here for x amount of furlongs until this point here x amount of times."

In showjumping I dont see people whipping there horses for not making mistakes.
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The difference here is if that severity of whip abuse was seen on a racecourse or filmed in a racing yard the perpetrators would have been banned from racing for life! and quite rightly so. A point I made earlier.
Unless the RSPCA take action over this then they get off scot free to carry on doing it ! Anybody fancy a whip round to explore a private prosecution?
 
Amymay are you an adult ? I ask not to jest but seriously ? Not once have i condoned the 'beating' of any animal nor have i resorted to calling you a muppet (but dear it really is starting to shine gloriously from you) OF COURSE QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ASKED OF BOTH PARTIES ITS A PPPPPUBBBLLLIC FORUM !!!!!!
 
lloyd said:
I am making the point that if you consider that at this time whipping a horse for doing nothing wrong is abuse then we must agree that there is hypocrisy in the " Yeah you can hit a horse for doing nothing wrong after this point here for x amount of furlongs until this point here x amount of times."
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A racehorse understands that the whip is used to send it forwards and encourage it to speed up because it has been taught this through time on the gallops.

A newly backed youngster has no idea what the whip means, as it has not yet been taught to respond to a leg aid, and that this is backed up with the whip.

As another issue, the use of the whip on this video is not how a whip aid should be used (note, aid, not punishment). The vast majority of riders (i.e. ones on here who are commenting knowledgably) will tap with the whip to send a horse forwards and reinforce a leg aid, not raise the whip and whack it down to inflict pain.

You seem to have a vendetta which is not backed up with basic equine knowledge.
 
heroandleander said:
Amymay are you an adult ? I ask not to jest but seriously ? Not once have i condoned the 'beating' of any animal nor have i resorted to calling you a muppet (but dear it really is starting to shine gloriously from you) OF COURSE QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ASKED OF BOTH PARTIES ITS A PPPPPUBBBLLLIC FORUM !!!!!!
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I apologise, that was childish.

And you've asked your questions, and received your answers.
 
fine_and_dandy said:
So people don't agree with you (you still haven't answered my post :) ) and we are called Pirelli nuts?

Just as well I don't like tyre nuts really...:D



Funnily enough, I can think of some high profile show jumpers who had bad publicity for doing just that. An incident at Hickstead springs to mind.

As far as I can see, amymay is making the point that unless you know something we all don't, the Jockey Club etc is nothing to do with this, and to make sure that the thread remains, to start a separate thread should you wish to draw a comparison between the two :)
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So because i ask questions you feel its fair for me to be accused of being the dealer / being involved with the dealer ?
 
heroandleander said:
So because i ask questions you feel its fair for me to be accused of being the dealer / being involved with the dealer ?
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You have not been accused. You have been asked a question in exactly the same way that you asked questions of Tic Toc's owner. Can you see now how offensive some of those questions were?
 
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