How NOT to ride a young horse forward.

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Im sure the showjumper didnt whip the horse excessively for getting a clear round though ! Unlike the jockeys who whipp there horses when they are leading a race !

Hitting a horse for doing nothing wrong is un excuseable in any circomstance , before we all get our knickers in a twist about this one example should we not also address whats going on a industrail scale up and down the country every week ?

As you can tell I have a real problem with ill treatment of horses , but we are all hypocrits if we vilify this guy whilst we build statues to frankie detory.
 
I've followed this thread, and up until now havent replied as have been on my phone and it wasnt playing ball.

I'm so pleased to see the horse is now back with the original owner, and no doubt getting the right kind of care and attention. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, I can only send hugs and best wishes to you Popsdosh - must have been a horrific few days for you!

I saw the video last night, there arent really words to describe how it made me feel. It may only be a snapshot in time, however i saw enough to know that it was downright cruel and unnecessary use of force - even if the horse was misbehaving i cannot see how that kind of treatment would solve the issue. We also know the horse had been sedated and only on the yard a matter of hours... i dont really think i need to know anything else to realise it is just not right - regardless of racing or showjumping rules...

I also think this thread is to the credit of a lot of HHO users, its amazing what a small group of people can achieve when they work together!

Finally - its very sad that there will always be scumbags like this dealer/and their associates in the world, I just hope all this at least highlights the care you have to take when selling or buying a horse, and will prevent anyone falling for their cons again.
 
heroandleander said:
Amymay are you an adult ? I ask not to jest but seriously ? Not once have i condoned the 'beating' of any animal nor have i resorted to calling you a muppet (but dear it really is starting to shine gloriously from you) OF COURSE QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ASKED OF BOTH PARTIES ITS A PPPPPUBBBLLLIC FORUM !!!!!!
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But H&L there are cases where one party is so clearly at fault, as in this case, that only someone utterly heartless would suggest that the owner has any questions to answer for simply having sold her horse to a dealer.
 
Where at any point were my questions to the horses owner in any way vicious uncalled for unfair or derogatory ? I asked why the horse had gone there (wondering if the horse has a history of behaviour) and asked if it was true the owner had sent him there as a last resort to being pts , his owner replied saying he had tried all he could to sell him ,, i simply asked how long for. How in ANY way are these questions unfair ?
 
heroandleander said:
So because i ask questions you feel its fair for me to be accused of being the dealer / being involved with the dealer ?
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Not at all. It is the type of questions coupled with the manner in which they were asked which raised suspicion. Going back through the thread, most of the answers were there already, and to me, it seemed unnecessary to go over old ground. The way in which you asked, to me, also appeared insensitive of the situation and slightly goading. But that is just my interpretation of the way you posted :)

If you feel it was unfair of those members to accuse you of that, why did you then feel it fair to call people, "Pirelli nuts" and some slur to do with native breeds?
 
Oh dear, are you having a meltdown heroandleander? That's a nasty shouting habit and a very dodgy stammer. Insults too, lovely.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. There's a saying about that...

There are strict rules in racing, show-jumping and eventing about how many times one may hit a horse. One may NOT hit a horse hard enough to cause welts (which this horse had, I believe.)
The whip in racing (which I personally do not condone) is used to encourage the horse to give his all, and is flashed down his side as much as used on him (and then it's a padded whip.)
In eventing, there's an annual list published of riders who have committed violations, including Excessive Use of the Whip. It is carefully policed.

The use of the whip in the video is INEXCUSABLE in anyone's book.
 
cptrayes said:
But H&L there are cases where one party is so clearly at fault, as in this case, that only someone utterly heartless would suggest that the owner has any questions to answer for simply having sold her horse to a dealer.
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I am far from heartless , the owner claimed to have been 'duped' into selling to this particular dealer , i wondered which i am entitled to if the horse had a history of this behaviour. Im not condoning abuse on any animal of any kind and i dont think i deserve to be labeled heartless
 
kerilli said:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. There's a saying about that...

There are strict rules in racing, show-jumping and eventing about how many times one may hit a horse. One may NOT hit a horse hard enough to cause welts (which this horse had, I believe.)
The whip in racing (which I personally do not condone) is used to encourage the horse to give his all, and is flashed down his side as much as used on him (and then it's a padded whip.)
In eventing, there's an annual list published of riders who have committed violations, including Excessive Use of the Whip. It is carefully policed.

The use of the whip in the video is INEXCUSABLE in anyone's book.
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Put more eloquently than I could!
 
heroandleander said:
Where at any point were my questions to the horses owner in any way vicious uncalled for unfair or derogatory ?
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I think when you read your posts back in the cold light of day you'll see quite clearly why they have caused upset to the owner.

Insensitive, and quite frankly no one's business.
 
kerilli said:
Oh dear, are you having a meltdown heroandleander? That's a nasty shouting habit and a very dodgy stammer. Insults too, lovely.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. There's a saying about that...

There are strict rules in racing, show-jumping and eventing about how many times one may hit a horse. One may NOT hit a horse hard enough to cause welts (which this horse had, I believe.)
The whip in racing (which I personally do not condone) is used to encourage the horse to give his all, and is flashed down his side as much as used on him (and then it's a padded whip.)
In eventing, there's an annual list published of riders who have committed violations, including Excessive Use of the Whip. It is carefully policed.

The use of the whip in the video is INEXCUSABLE in anyone's book.
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Yes kerrilli that same quote came straight to mind when i read your contributions :)
 
heroandleander said:
Where at any point were my questions to the horses owner in any way vicious uncalled for unfair or derogatory ? I asked why the horse had gone there (wondering if the horse has a history of behaviour) and asked if it was true the owner had sent him there as a last resort to being pts , his owner replied saying he had tried all he could to sell him ,, i simply asked how long for. How in ANY way are these questions unfair ?
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The question "how long had you been trying to sell him for?" , in the context of this thread, can only possibly be read as:

"had you been trying to get rid of him for so long that you were prepared to dump him on any dodgy dealer no matter how bad you knew they were?"

It is not an offence to sell to a dealer on the first day you have a horse up for sale. Thousands of people do it every year. The dealer was at fault here, not the owner. The question cannot be read by any reasonable thinking person without seeing the implication of poor behaviour on the part of the owner, and that is why it is offensive.
 
Ladies ladies i leave you to your weak tea and knitting hubbling and bubbling toiling and troubling until someone else comes along who doesnt jump on your bandwagon.
 
heroandleander said:
I too want this post to remain , what i dont want is abuse when i have simply asked two questions (not probed) i have stated quite clearly i do not condone ill treatment of any animal and also while im at it i for one would like to see this whole situation brought out in a court
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For the love of God as I and all the others have said all your questions had ALREADY BEEN anwered in earlier posts. If you want to carry on asking then ask the owner via pm rather then add fuel to a very important thread that does not deserve to be pulled. Either that or use your normal H&H name. I for one am not interested in someone who has just joined asks one questions then concentrates all their efforts in being a troll. I suspect you do have some involvement, a beef with the owner perhaps, whatever it is take it up via PM.
 
Oh dear, some people seem oblivious to the fact that regardless of how long the horse was up for sale for etc, there is nothing that anyone can say to justify the appalling behaviour shown by these dealers to this horse. And yes abuse does happen all over by amateurs as well as professionals but not all are stupid enough to video it and then post it for all to see. H&L please stop this incessant drivel for a moment and think before you post again, some people do have feelings you know unlike others!
 
heroandleander said:
Yes kerrilli that same quote came straight to mind when i read your contributions :)
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Very unoriginal and rather disappointing.
My contributions to this and other, threads can stand on their own two feet, I believe. I did not know, when I started the thread, who the horse belonged to, or ANY of the history at all. It could have been a 15 year old with a bad history who was one step away from the bullet for being lethal, but it didn't look like it to me. Anyway, that additional information was (and imho still is) immaterial. The video footage is incredibly telling to ANYONE who has a true understanding of horses and can read their body language. Unfortunately, from your contributions on this thread, I seriously suspect that you do not and can not, and that in fact having a dig at the horse's owner is your agenda.
 
Hell,I just made myself watch the video ( well done, Bobsmith)

Just horrible to watch the poor little honest horse.I'm afraid I only lasted 21 seconds.
I am so glad he is back home and I cannot imagine how his owner coped with viewing those brutal people abusing his youngster.
I hope they get a lifetime ban from ever keeping a horse again.

This has been very hard to write without swearing.:mad:
 
Pidgeon said:
Oh dear, some people seem oblivious to the fact that regardless of how long the horse was up for sale for etc, there is nothing that anyone can say to justify the appalling behaviour shown by these dealers to this horse. And yes abuse does happen all over by amateurs as well as professionals but not all are stupid enough to video it and then post it for all to see. H&L please stop this incessant drivel for a moment and think before you post again, some people do have feelings you know unlike others!
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Pidgeon dont you have some old barn to go c*** in ?
 
kerilli said:
Very unoriginal and rather disappointing.
My contributions to this and other, threads can stand on their own two feet, I believe. I did not know, when I started the thread, who the horse belonged to, or ANY of the history at all. It could have been a 15 year old with a bad history who was one step away from the bullet for being lethal, but it didn't look like it to me. Anyway, that additional information was (and imho still is) immaterial. The video footage is incredibly telling to ANYONE who has a true understanding of horses and can read their body language. Unfortunately, from your contributions on this thread, I seriously suspect that you do not and can not, and that in fact having a dig at the horse's owner is your agenda.
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Kerilli i can assure you i am not 'having a dig at the horses owner' but instead asked questions relating to the incident , i have repeatedly stated i do not condone the mistreatment of any animal.
 
I really think this thread ought to be locked now. It is quickly turning into a farce :(

Shame, as it was such a lovely, uplifting outcome..
 
Is that the best constructive response you can muster, oh dear, you're not very articulate are you? Perhaps you need to go away until you have anything constructive to contribute.
 
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