How to convince friend a stallion is a bad idea?

[Orchid129]

I am trying to convince my friend that keeping a stallion would be a bad, and potentially dangerous, idea.

We went to the same riding school when we were teens and have both gone on to own horses. She rides a gelding warmblood and had a rescued cob as a companion-only horse. The cob recently passed away from old age and she wants to get another horse. She's set her heart on a Friesian stallion, but I'm very apprehensive. I've heard stallions can be very unpredictable even if they have a generally nice temperament. She insists that since she has no mares, it wouldn't be dangerous to keep a stallion. She is an experienced and confident rider, and she still gets lessons, but I still don't think it's a good idea and she's had no experience of stallions before. How do I convince her of that? Or am I being overcautious?

 

[tristar]

depends on the horse, and the rider, and importantly the facilities available, and things like can she ride him a lot and make him her main focus

 

[Gloi]

I've no room to talk because mine was fabulous and the most affectionate pony I've ever had.

 

[meleeka]

I’m not sure why anyone would want the extra bother of a stallion. There’s very few setups that really work. A Friesian is a big horse too with a huge action, so probably not the best for a novice stallion owner.

 

[Esmae]

Both of my stallions were like seaside donkeys. Could be ridden out with mares etc and both were working stallions. It does depend on the horse and the owner/rider.

 

[Orchid129]

The horse is from good, well-mannered stock and experienced breeders from what I've seen, he's 8-9yo and is regulary ridden by his current owners. My friend is kind and understanding with her horses, she rides and cares for them every day, but I still don't think it's suitable. I also look after her horses when she's away (she looks after mine when I'm away), and don't feel good about continuing to do so if she has a stallion. She doesn't want the stallion for breeding, so I don't see why she can't buy another gelding.

 

[I'm Dun]

My next one will be a stallion. But I've got my own yard with only geldings, and have owned and worked with stallions previously. Most are easy, sweet boys. I find mares much harder work!

 

[Spotherisk]

Where will she keep it, on a livery yard? Will they accept a stallion?

 

[Orchid129]

Where will she keep it, on a livery yard? Will they accept a stallion?

She keeps her horses on her own property by her house, roughly 5 acres separated into 2 paddocks and 3 boxes. She keeps the fences in good condition and walks the pasture often. My other concern though is how the stallion will react to her gelding...

 

[meleeka]

if she’s not intending to breed, why a stallion?

 

[Orchid129]

if she’s not intending to breed, why a stallion?

That's what I've said, ? she says she likes the breed and the horse's personality.

 

[Nicnac]

Why on earth does she want a stallion? Good luck to finding livery! Having had a Friesian they are lovely horses but bloody strong.

There are no approved breeding Friesian stallions in the UK, so if it's UK bred it won't have breeding papers and is pretty worthless if she plans to breed.

 

[paddy555]

The horse is from good, well-mannered stock and experienced breeders from what I've seen, he's 8-9yo and is regulary ridden by his current owners. My friend is kind and understanding with her horses, she rides and cares for them every day, but I still don't think it's suitable. I also look after her horses when she's away (she looks after mine when I'm away), and don't feel good about continuing to do so if she has a stallion. She doesn't want the stallion for breeding, so I don't see why she can't buy another gelding.

why don't you think he is suitable? Everything you have explained so far suggests he is a nice horse who is regularly ridden and your friend caring, presumably thinks she is capable of riding him and seem to be caring in looking after them and, the main point, even has her own place.

I don't expect the stallion will react to her gelding. Mine doesn't. Happily shares a field. My previous one didn't either. He shared a field with whatever gelding I had at the time and rode out with him. Sometimes he shared his field with a donkey and at other times with my pig. He was just another horse.

Your worry really seems to be looking after him when she is away. He will just be another horse and you will soon learn to deal with him. Are you perhaps worried because you lack experience with stallions?

He sounds lovely and if she really likes him and his personality as a horse then she sounds to have an excellent set up for him. I can't see why he would be dangerous.
Why not go and visit him with your friend and get to know him. You may like him. I can totally understand her wanting a stallion and she seems to be lucky to have the facilities to do so.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I've known several lovely, easy to handle stallions, so wouldn't worry about the handling side, but if there are mares kept within earshot/upwind of her yard she's going to need phenomenally good fencing, to keep him in and them out! Some friends had a neighbour's mare break into their fields to get to their stallion which was a bit of a hassle for everyone involved.
If she has no plans to breed and is set on this horse, why not have him gelded when he arrives?

 

[Orchid129]

why don't you think he is suitable? Everything you have explained so far suggests he is a nice horse who is regularly ridden and your friend caring, presumably thinks she is capable of riding him and seem to be caring in looking after them and, the main point, even has her own place.

I don't expect the stallion will react to her gelding. Mine doesn't. Happily shares a field. My previous one didn't either. He shared a field with whatever gelding I had at the time and rode out with him. Sometimes he shared his field with a donkey and at other times with my pig. He was just another horse.

Your worry really seems to be looking after him when she is away. He will just be another horse and you will soon learn to deal with him. Are you perhaps worried because you lack experience with stallions?

He sounds lovely and if she really likes him and his personality as a horse then she sounds to have an excellent set up for him. I can't see why he would be dangerous.
Why not go and visit him with your friend and get to know him. You may like him. I can totally understand her wanting a stallion and she seems to be lucky to have the facilities to do so.

We are both inexperienced with stallions. I also went along with her to see the horse since she wanted to convince/reassure me, ? but I still don't feel good about it. I want her to have what she wants, but I also want her to be safe. She's a very close friend. Everything I've heard about stallions is that even the well-trained, docile ones can be dangerous (I know you can say that of all horses) and that only people who are thoroughly experienced with them, want them for breeding or showing and accept the risk should own them. This is what my riding instructor and the owner of the stables I was taught at taught me.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Why on earth does she want a stallion? Good luck to finding livery! Having had a Friesian they are lovely horses but bloody strong.

There are no approved breeding Friesian stallions in the UK, so if it's UK bred it won't have breeding papers and is pretty worthless if she plans to breed.

Pretty sure a mate is using an approved stallion in Yorkshire, she’s done an awful lot of research on him.

 

[paddy555]

We are both inexperienced with stallions. I also went along with her to see the horse since she wanted to convince/reassure me, ? but I still don't feel good about it. I want her to have what she wants, but I also want her to be safe. She's a very close friend. Everything I've heard about stallions is that even the well-trained, docile ones can be dangerous (I know you can say that of all horses) and that only people who are thoroughly experienced with them, want them for breeding or showing and accept the risk should own them. This is what my riding instructor and the owner of the stables I was taught at taught me.

That is a quite narrow minded opinion that your instructor held and that has been passed on. A lot of the problem with stallions (for riding not breeding) is "what people have heard" and that gets passed on. The biggest problem with them is if you don't have your own place. They are not very welcome on livery yards which is fair enough.

I am not sure why he is going to be dangerous. When you saw him what did he do? did he do anything different from another horse? if he stood up, pawed, bit, refused to do as he was told then of course he could be dangerous. If he did basically nothing that an ordinary horse wouldn't have done then why is there a problem?
I think you are judging him on what you have heard rather than what he (and many other riding stallions) actually are.

Your friend may be inexperienced with stallions but everyone has to start somewhere.

I know you want your friend to be safe but I'm not sure why she wouldn't be. Mine is led out to his field with a rope round his neck, no headcollar. He is led this way past 2 mares who are about 6 feet away from him. His field is next to the mares and they are separated by a pig wire fence that has electric fencing on each side. The electric fencing is to protect the horses from a wire fence not because he is a stallion.

I crawl around his legs in the stable, with the previous one I used to sit clipping his belly. I don't feel to be in danger and in fact I feel a lot safer than with some geldings.
They are really no different. Badly behaved horses are the ones that are dangerous. That is determined by the manners they have been taught not by the extra bits underneath.

Is your friend scared of him?

 

[SpeedyPony]

Everything I've heard about stallions is that even the well-trained, docile ones can be dangerous (I know you can say that of all horses) and that only people who are thoroughly experienced with them, want them for breeding or showing and accept the risk should own them. This is what my riding instructor and the owner of the stables I was taught at taught me.

To be fair, I think a lot of the bad reputation they have stems from those that are kept in unsuitable conditions/handled badly. It's a self fulfilling prophecy in some ways- people who expect them to be dangerous and so shut them away from other horses or handle them roughly/fearfully do find they become dangerous, but then so would most animals in that situation!
I still wouldn't advise keeping one you don't want to breed from, because of the risk of unwanted pregnancies- has she considered what she would do if he got out and covered a neighbour's mare? It's almost certain she'd end up on the hook for their vets fees, even if it was just for a check over and precautionary jab.

 

[Lois Lame]

Your friend might be someone who would have no trouble handling a stallion. I, on the other hand, probably (or certainly) am not.

What I'm wondering about is whether the stallion will have some mares to serve sometimes. Will he need this? I mean, will he be very difficult if he doesn't sometimes serve outside mares (with their owners' permission I mean, ha ha).

I have heard that a stallion (the right stallion with the right handler/owner) can have a relationship like no other. Like Gloi's experience.

 

[Orchid129]

My friend is definitely the more adventurous one and I the more cautious, though still fairly adventurous one, ? I am still very confident around large and strong horses, I rode an ex-racehorse before and currently have two 16hh geldings, one is a cross of multiple Breeds and the other is warmblood-type.

If keeping a stallion is truly the same risk as keeping a gelding, I don't have anything against it. Like I said, I want her to be happy, but I want her to be safe as well. Is there anything then that you recommend? Maybe asking the stallion's sellers for a bit of mentorship, etc.?

 

[windand rain]

Like everything it depends on the horse I have had some horrid colts that needed gelded and some lovely ones you would never know were stallions. Reputation has a lot to do with the era you were brought up in too Stallions were/are kept in boxes for years with only humans exercising them. they are hormonal and of course cover mares those covering mares are in need of impeccable manners and kind fair handling. Now hopefully they get a better deal and get to meet other horses and turn out at least next to other geldings. Some geldings start trouble that a stallion will finish so it doesnt always work. I am a firm believer that a good stallion always makes a better gelding mostly for it's own sake

 

[honetpot]

She keeps her horses on her own property by her house, roughly 5 acres separated into 2 paddocks and 3 boxes. She keeps the fences in good condition and walks the pasture often. My other concern though is how the stallion will react to her gelding...

Like most horses if they are well socialised, not keep in isolation they are just like any horse, often even breeding stallions have pony mates to keep them company. I never geld mine until they are at least three, just to see what they turn out like, and they live in a herd and handled just the same as any other horse I own. I would think her biggest problem will be her budget, it will not be cheap.

 

[SibeliusMB]

If she loves that particular stallion so much, I'm sure he'd make an equally lovely gelding.

 

[Abi90]

As a 14 year old (until I was 21) I worked with stallions. I would groom them, ride them, lunge them, walk them past mares... the only time they had a stallion chain on was when they went through a narrow gap with 2 pens either side to the lunge ring as the pens often had mares in. Even then they were as good as gold.

Later on, I worked on at a trekking centre that had a couple of stallions and the other girls were terrified of them..: I don’t know why, they were better behaved than some of the geldings.

I don’t see the point of keeping him entire if she isn’t going to use him. But her set up sounds fine and as long as she’s confident round horses, he’s just another horse.

we have this weird thing in the UK where we teach everyone that stallions are these fire breathing dangerous dragons... in Europe they stick their toddlers on them.

 

[paddy555]

we have this weird thing in the UK where we teach everyone that stallions are these fire breathing dangerous dragons... in Europe they stick their toddlers on them.

well said. There is a lot of difference between the myth and the reality.

 

[ycbm]

There really isn't any issue here except your fear, which is born of a myth that only exists in the UK. You've been misinformed, I think. I rode a stallion owned by a friend of mine, kept in livery in Switzerland in a livery stables where they couldn't have cared less he was a stallion. If someone hadn't told me, or I hadn't spotted the extra bits, I'd never have known. I bought a 2 year old who had been serving mares that year, quiet as a lamb for the time I had him before he was gelded, and a friend with a livery yard had a horse gelded at three only because he was to be sold.

My only concern would be if the horse is not already turned out with geldings.
.

 

[Quigleyandme]

I regularly rode a ISH stallion some years ago. I would take him on pleasure rides and to shows and never had an issue with his behaviour. Once he was clearly interested in a mare next to him in a line up but when his offer to nibble her neck was rebuffed in no uncertain terms he pretended he no longer thought she was the least bit pretty. On my way to my stables early one morning I found one of the Langaller Stud stallions standing in the lane after breaking out of his stallion paddock. As waiving my arms and physically pushing him had no effect on his contented hedge browsing I tied my socks around his neck and took him back to the stud. He was a complete sweetie.

 

[Goldenstar]

If she keeps them at her own place and she checks out how they fence him and things like that then there’s no difficulty.
If she depends on livery then I think it’s a really bad idea .

 

[w1bbler]

I've ridden several different stallions in turkey jordan etc. They don't seem to think gelding is normal (as far as I can tell).
Some of the horses were ridden by complete novices & all seemed to have excellent temperaments.
Saying that, not sure why you would want a stallion inthe uk unless planning to breed

 

[littleshetland]

I shouldn't worry too much, especially if she's got her own place. Being reliant on livery with a stallion can be very difficult. Friesian stallions, as a general rule (although there are always exceptions) are pretty biddable, but a lot depends on their previous handlers/riders. If it all starts getting difficult she could have him gelded.....