How to cut through the horsey BS and tell if your instructor has a scooby doo?

[FestiveSpirit]

Great thread K - just a couple of things to add

there are plenty to great riders who can't teach, and some great trainers who can't ride - really the topic of another thread - but Dot Willis comes to mind.... she could definitely train!!

As an instructor, one of the things I love about teaching is finding the right words ..... I know what I want to produce in the horse and rider, but not every rider understands the same words and phrases. I can say the same thing 20 different ways so that 20 different riders can communicate it to the horse. The psychology of training is fascinating

ETA I train one of my best friends - she would be my friend if I didn't teach her, and I would teach her even if we weren't good friends. We are good at making a clear demarcation between the two - at least I think so - she may be along later to deny the whole thing lol!!

I think to teach friends though, there has to be mutual respect and a degree of professionalism.....

I deny the whole thing of course

To me it is difficult to quantify a "good" instructor as an individual's requirements will vary so much? Using myself as an example, I had flatwork lessons from my YO (who trains with Isobel Wessels) and they just did not work at all. I cannot tell you why, but whatever she said just didnt sink in and we never got decent results. Then I went to ride at Spacefaer's yard one day, and she was casually making comments to me as I rode and we chatted - and it worked

Spacefaer uses the same words as my YO, the same phrases, looks for the same outcome, and trains with the same person now but her teaching methods made it all come together in my head in a way it never did with my YOs lessons

So of course I would completely disagree that you cannot be taught by friends - although I do agree that respect and professionalism are important

 

[CrazyMare]

Having recently passed a teaching course (thankfully - worked my socks off!) it is really interesting how the same subject, with the same 'science/facts' behind it can come across so differently.

Also, individual differences play such a huge role - as someone who learns by doing, I am biased in my teaching that way, compared to say someone who learns by listening - they may bias their teaaching to talking methods.

My OH & I both ride - I am far more competitive, and driven than him, and ride better. His instructor would drive me up the wall, I can't even watch his lessons, but he loves them. He thinks my instructors are far too hard, too harsh and too complex - weather the last one is a reflection on ability I'm not sure.... Perfect for me is about his worst nightmare!

 

[spookypony]

Very cool thread! Slightly inebriated, so will attempt to type accurately...I take regular lessons from two instructors, so am answering for one instructor only; the somewhat more controversial one, who has seen the SP more frequently!

1. Can they answer any questions you may have, patiently, confidently and clearly?

Yes. Complete with quotations from Xenophon et al..

2. If they ride (not essential imho, but useful) do they look competent and balanced?

Yes.

3. Are they patient and kind with your horse, even if s/he doesn't understand something immediately?

Yes. I've particularly noticed the utter precision of the timing.

4. Do they act as if they like your horse? (If they despise your horse or you, you are not going to get the best from them...)

Calls him a "***** pony" or "that brown thing" all the time, but feeds him carrots on the side...

5. Do you end your lesson feeling happy and as if you have accomplished something?

Generally yes, even if my knees are trembling.

6. Does their teaching style suit how you as an individual need to learn - e.g if you need detailed explanation, or visible demonstration, or cajoling, or reassuring, or yelling at, or whatever is best for you - can and do they do that?

Yes. Will yell at me plenty, but back off if I explain why.

7. Are they interested in your progress, do they ask about your goals, how you've done, where you are going next, etc etc?

Definitely. Would really like to see me with something more, er, competitive, but happy to help with the pony I happen to have, a.k.a. "that brown thing".

8. Do they re-cap things you need to work on, at the end of the lesson? Do they give you 'homework' to do before the next session?

Lessons often followed by dissection over coffee...

Signs that they're not all that great:

1. They keep praising you even when you realise it's going badly.

Definitely not. Unless "your left leg looks like a dog p***ing against a tree" is praise!

2. They put you down to big themselves up.

Nope.

3. They get angry when asked to explain things.

Nope. Last got angry at whoever didn't teach pony properly as youngster: unqualified people handling babies, etc. Remained calm towards pony despite pony just having broken instructor's finger.

4. They make you feel that you can't ride your horse, and angle for the ride.

Heh! Why bother? Sat on "that brown thing" twice, and said my style was more suited to it for the moment for specific reasons...but is happy to demonstrate things if needed.

5. They spend a huge proportion of the lesson riding your horse, but when you are allowed back on, you can't feel much difference, and/or they can't tell you how to get it better.

(With other horses) will occasionally get on the horse to figure out what's going on, but will hand it back after a few minutes and coach you relentlessly to get the same result.

6. They clock-watch and don't give you a minute over your allotted time, even if the last exercise isn't working with that horse.

What's a clock? Oh, you mean the ponies are coming in already for the next lesson?

7.They answer their phone all the time or seem uninterested in teaching you.

Nope. Phone answering is limited to "I'm teaching, call back later.".

8. Do they ask you to do exercises (I'm thinking particularly of jump trainers here) which you or your horse struggle with, and not realise and alter the exercise, instead letting the session go from bad to worse, and rocking your and your horse's confidence?

Nope, definitely not. Lessons tend to be approached without a specific agenda, and exercises are developed to answer the particular situation.

Hey, I think I'm pretty lucky here!

Most of the time, both my instructors are in agreement, if often couched in slightly different terms. The trick for me is figuring out, when there is disagreement re. the SP (e.g. his jumping), what I should be doing, and since I'm a grown-up, the decision (and any resulting injuries or dented helmets) rests in the end with me.

For example, having witnessed a few spectacular dumpings when faced with simple cross-poles, one instructor advised me to stop trying to jump him, since it was too dangerous and not worth my time for the probable end result. The other instructor (not having witnessed said dumpings) felt that starting from scratch and aiming just to build up really wee courses would be within his ability, and worth doing from a confidence perspective. From my own assessment, being the pony's only regular rider, I thought I agreed with the second instructor, but of course was wondering if this was simply a matter of pride, or of reason! A matter of priorities to be analysed: carry on, for the sake of education, or shift emphasis, for the sake of competitiveness...Result: he was happily jumping a very small course reasonably calmly before my accident, but I really have to get on top of his wee panics before attempting to go any higher. Will this ever happen? I somehow doubt it...(He never touches a pole: they're very very scary, apparently! )

OK. Too much wine. Numb lips, and too much philosophising! My apologies, everyone...

 

[3DE]

A bad instructor just speaks louder and louder if you don't get it right and ends up shouting. A good instructor changes their style of teaching so you can understand

 

[**Vanner**]

My instructor is fab. She began by telling me she wasn't into teaching me 'tricks' to make my boy look pretty instead we have done things slowly and properly and I feel so much better for that.

A good instructor progresses you as well as your horse, and IMO if you don't think you need progressing then why isn't your horse doing grand prix?

I am one of those people who needs to know why I am doing anything. Why do I need to put my leg there? why should you sit and rise in that way? Why does my youngster pick up the canter lead on his rubbish rein and not on his good rein? All these things my instructor answers - I'm a very happy client

 

[mrussell]

Oh my gosh... well I think we are so lucky to have our trainer. She doesnt need to be watching us 100% of the time to get a result, she can assess what needs doing quickly and put us on the right path to achieve it. IMHO there is nowt worse than someone who follows you around with a constant stream of instruction. Yes, she can get on and prove the point, but one thing she does do is swap horses. So if she spots the fact that you havent yet developed a skill that your horse needs and your learning style is to "feel" it for yourself, she will put you up on her own horse to learn the skill for yourself so you can show your own horse what is needed. She even turns up with different saddles to try if she thinks thats what may be needed. Timing is not an issue for her. You want help, you get it, for as long as you need it. I guess that a benefit of using a Pro rider rather than an instructor who makes their living from teaching alone.

She always comes at things from a new angle to any other trainer weve had. Shes stripped away years of bad habits in a matter of months.

Forward thinking, energetic and enthusiastic. Cannot fault her.

 

[dafthoss]

I love having lessons with my instructor at home I always have a laugh. She has a great way of putting things that yu are doing in to little phrases to help me remember for example she will just say teapot if I am leaning in to much (A bad habbit from college). But I have had some truley shocking instructors at college I went from will ride anything one to won't sit on anthing a bit dodgey so now the new one won't say anything cos she dosent wan to knock my confidence again but it makes me feel worse it is one of them that was good when it clearly wasn't so I just get irritated.

 

[stencilface]

Signs that they're not all that great:

2. They put you down to big themselves up.

Had that a few times! One told me how I rode like **** at the start of the lesson (almost left, but was too gutless )and then at the end told me how much better it was, when in reality it was the same

TBH, I find it harder finding a good flatwork instructor, as I am least confident in this area. Its easy to tell if a jumping instructor is not good, as the results are pretty obvious if its going wrong. With flatwork, there are FAR too many instructors around of the 'kick, kick, pull, pull' variety imho. Its taken me ages to find people who make sense to me, and get results, without making me feel like I being a complete cow to the horse

Again, jumping instructors not as bad, as they have to move around and do fences. But if the instructor is physically mobile, then they shoudl be so - not sat on the fence at one end of the arena

 

[LeneHorse]

Missed this fab thread yesterday due to being stuck in snow!

I'd just like to add that one of my instructor's best qualities is her great sense of humour! Also, as she is a mature lady she appreciates that us older riders are not as flexible or confident as we used to be. She knows just how far to push you out of your comfort zone without it becoming stressful.
She'll only ride if the problem is with the horse. 99% of times it is something the rider is doing that is the problem, and her jumping on and getting the horse to go well aint going to fix that. I think some people quite like their instructor getting on and making the horse look fabulous - I prefer to work towards getting the horse to go well myself (on those rare moments when it all comes together it just feels wonderful).

And yes, she likes my horse, though I can't say the mare likes her (she knows a lesson means work rather than her usual easy life)

So yes, I would say 100% that my instuctor has more than a scooby do! We're supposed to have lessons this weekend but I reckon they'll be cancelled due to the vast amount of snow we have.