How to teach horse to tie up solid?

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bollybop

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Has anyone done it?

My rather crafty horse has learnt that if he pulls and yanks when tied up somewhere he doesn't like, he can get out of being tied up. Of course everytime it happens he gets positive reinforcement from it.

I don't need any comments on "it's dangerous" or teach my horse to tie up normally first - I'm well aware of the implications of it, and my horse ties up "normally" 99% of the time.

I've looked at some of the "gadgets" that are meant to help horses that pull back, but looking at them, I honestly just think that my horse will pull and yank until it breaks.

I've had advise from a behaviourist, whose method involved wafting a whip around... Which is no good for me as horse is slightly whip shy.

Any help much appreciated!
 
How badly does he pull back? if he only does it till he is free then doesn't go far it may be worth trying the technique where you run a long rope through a ring on the wall and hold the end of it (rather than tying) so he learns that he is still attached if he pulls back and once he stops you can gently encourage him back in to position so he realises there is no benefit to pulling away and no fight

Obviously if he pulls back and legs it that's a bit of another matter

Don't get yourself hurt and wear gloves and a hat!
 
Its bad. Will pull and yank until he gets free, and then legs it. Doesnt think anything of trampling over anyone that gets in his way.

Having said that, I have actively avoided the situations where the above occurs for some months now, as it was becoming an issue at the time.

He is generally much better on the ground than he was a six months ago, so I'm wanting to try and get him out of thinking that this is ever acceptable.
 
The other alternative to WelshD's suggestion is to tie him up with 2 ropes of varying lengths. He pulls back and snaps one but is still tied by the second.

I've used this and WelshD's method.
 
Probably get shot down in flames but we never had this problem when we used rack chains. If you feel that's a step too far too quickly then use a full strength (not shredded) double strands of binder twine to the ring on his headcollar and fasten chain through that (that way, if he snaps it neither of you get hit by the chain flying around.

http://shop.horserequisites.co.uk/e...-11837/Products/ES0255&ViewAction=ViewProduct

Mine is made purely from metal and has proper hooks at the end, no panic ones which really only teach a horse to pull back and get away with it.
 
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Two ropes is an interesting thought, thank you. I will go into the issue a bit further.

Bought pony a year ago, didn't realise that he hand some "handling" issues, as it wasn't evident at time of purchase, and (as above) 99% of the time he is an angel.

It turns out that he's had an owner in the past who has literally let him get away with anything, and this, probably coupled with his breeding/nature, that means when he wants to get his own way, he turns into the devil.

When I first encountered the problem I spent a lot of time on groundwork with him, which helped inordinately. Still had some issues, and enlisted the help of the behaviorist. Didn't quite help as much as I'd hoped but picked up some tips.

Have since moved yards, which has helped the horse in his general demeanor and temper. Don't tend to do much groundwork any more, as I am very busy with work; only have a couple of days a week to ride; however leading in from the field and back out again are vastly improved to last year.

The worse behaviour is shown when around certain types of transport. Whilst I believe at some stage he was genuinely afraid of the situation, he is now just more like, "nah not today thanks, I'm not going in there!" and pulls, yanks, and bogs off.

As above, I have actively avoided this situation for some months, as we werent getting anywhere, and took him back to basics in another type of transport. Knew had travelled in this type of transport before, and we started off with similar behaviour to the first, although somewhat toned down.

Horse now much better. Hence I would like to try the first type of transport again (my own). However to do so, I need to ensure the horse will tie up solid, so he doesnt try and just pull and yank, and the whole cycle start again!
 
You could try the 'gadget'' that Jason Webb sells, it connects direct to the main ring so no baler twine to snap and you use it with a 12ft rope, if they pull back then it allows the rope to slide (it is tensioned) but because the rope is so long they tend to have stopped pulling before it reaches the end. You need to teach the horse about pressure and release as well so he understands that to get away from the pressure (albeit that he has initiated) he should step forward and not pull into it.
Good luck !
 
In a "normal" situation he will respond to pressure and release. I've looked at the Jason Webb thingy and have to admit, that along with the blocker tie ring, they both look incredibly flimsy!
 
Seeing your updated post, there is also a good video on his website about loading problem horses, again teaching him about pressure and release will help with this .. if you have control over his feet then generally you can get them wherever they need to be.
 
Not seen the blocker tie thing, but the other one, looks like it's made of plastic but it's not, I'm sure it's the same as the ones used for rock climbing so exceptionally strong ... good luck with whatever you decide, hope you find something that works :-)
 
I've only ever seen this problem in the UK. Over here most horses are taught to tie to something solid and unbreakable when they are young and it seems to work as I never ever see horses pull back when tied. My own horses I teach to tie with unbreakable halters and rope to something that will not break after doing all the usual teachings of pre-tying. This method is not de rigueur in Britain however.
 
My mare used to do this. No panic involved just because she could. I tied her using an old bicycle inner tube. It won't snap and she couldn't get a solid pull on it and just bounced :) In the end she gave up trying.
 
Is that the Jason Webb one? Might be worth thinking about. I do not want to tie up solid in transport, as I think that's a recipe for disaster, but needs more than baling twine in there.
 
Spring Feather said:
I've only ever seen this problem in the UK. Over here most horses are taught to tie to something solid and unbreakable when they are young and it seems to work as I never ever see horses pull back when tied. My own horses I teach to tie with unbreakable halters and rope to something that will not break after doing all the usual teachings of pre-tying. This method is not de rigueur in Britain however.
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My youngster was swung before I bought him at 6 months. Have to say he never tries to pull back.
 
Spring Feather said:
I've only ever seen this problem in the UK. Over here most horses are taught to tie to something solid and unbreakable when they are young and it seems to work as I never ever see horses pull back when tied. My own horses I teach to tie with unbreakable halters and rope to something that will not break after doing all the usual teachings of pre-tying. This method is not de rigueur in Britain however.
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A friend bought an older horse that had been rather spoiled, most definitely used to getting his own way. They used those ridiculous plastic ties that break as soon as you breathe on them, so his behaviour was continually being reinforced.

However, after tying him directly to something solid and him realising he couldn't break away and run off he was much improved and never tried it again.

sometimes we pander to horses far too much.
 
If a horse learns that it can break away whenever it wants to, why wouldn't it? The article below broadly describes the method I use. I use slippery yachting rope with a turn or two around a solid post. Then slight pressure on the end of the rope can control the horse when it pulls back. Whether this method is cruel or kind depends on the skill of the trainer but visitors to my stud haven't found any nervous or neurotic ponies yet -- and they do all lead and tie! (Ignore the NH propaganda in the article!).

http://www.animalambassadors.com/Print/tie.htm
 
If my horse pulled back all the time, it may be easier to solve.... I don't know.

As above, normally he ties up brilliantly, stands there like an old donkey.

It's the "teaching" bit I am unsure about how to go about. I understand the theory behind how the behaviourist told me to progress, but unfortunately it is not a good idea with my horse, as wafting a whip around him makes him panic, and fight and pull and yank, and IMO makes the problem worse.
 
You could tie up with a sinker, so rope is not tied to the ring but through it and then attached to the sinker - he can pull back but not go anywhere and might be better re to teach him?

We use rope & sinkers a lot :)
 
Spring Feather said:
They don't even consider doing it when they've been taught to tie like this. Different culture here with horses however, people expect more of them I feel. I have also never seen a horse nap over here either.
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This ^^ would also be my experience. And I tie my horses to very solid things, with very unbreakable rope. My horses never pull back.
 
bollybop said:
If my horse pulled back all the time, it may be easier to solve.... I don't know.

As above, normally he ties up brilliantly, stands there like an old donkey.

It's the "teaching" bit I am unsure about how to go about. I understand the theory behind how the behaviourist told me to progress, but unfortunately it is not a good idea with my horse, as wafting a whip around him makes him panic, and fight and pull and yank, and IMO makes the problem worse.
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"Wafting" anything doesn't work; most horses panic when they pull back because they can't figure out how to get away from the pressure - you have to teach them to go forwards towards it. I have before now thrown a dandy brush at a horse's rump to send him forwards as he was pulling back. Worked.

N.B: Wasn't my horse, belonged to one of the baling twine devotees.
 
The idea with the whip was it upsets the horse and makes them start pulling back, whilst ensuring they can't get away, and when they move forwards into the pressure it all stops, so horse learns it can't get away, and it needs to step forwards.

The theory is fine, but it is no use on my horse!
 
Whilst that would be a wonderful idea with my horse, firstly it would be a very stupid idea to do that in a vehicle without first having done some retraining with my horse.

Secondly, even with retraining, I still wouldn't tie my horse up solid in transport, it would simply be too risky.

He needs to learn to think that he's tied up solid all the time.
 
Sorry OP if I missed a bit but does he only do this in a trailer/ lorry?

If he does it the odd time on a yard then I'd also second (or third) just tying him up securely to something very solid with nothing dangerous around and let him have a big tantrum and realise he can't get away. If he's been wondering off for years he might need to do it a couple of times but he'll learn pretty quickly.
IMHO far less dangerous than trying to go after him with a whip if he's having a flap. a trailer - especially as with the doors up he can't get away then either.

Once he has learned in a safe environment he can't get away he'll stop trying in

I worked in SA for a wonderful horse riding safari place where if the horses got loose they literally were eaten by lions so they were all taught when they arrived (some in their teens) to tie to a big post concreted in the ground - amazing how quickly they learned and how the learning made them not panic when they got stuck in other things (like an illegal snare or foot through a martingale etc.)
 
bollybop said:
Whilst that would be a wonderful idea with my horse, firstly it would be a very stupid idea to do that in a vehicle without first having done some retraining with my horse.
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Obviously not. Good lord no one is suggesting that. You TRAIN the horse to tie first.

Secondly, even with retraining, I still wouldn't tie my horse up solid in transport, it would simply be too risky.
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Fair enough.

He needs to learn to think that he's tied up solid all the time.
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Yes he does ...
 
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