How true is alfalfa reactivity?

Pippity said:
I read an article by David Marlin saying there was no truth in it.

However, I started Blue on an alfalfa chaff at the weekend. On Wednesday, she was extremely spooky and reactive to ride, ending up with me coming off. Unfortunately I knocked myself out in the process, so can't remember too much.

I popped on her again last night for 20 minutes of walk, and had three massive spooks that would have had me off again if it hadn't been for sticky-bum jods and my oh-crap strap.

This is EXTREMELY out of character for her. She worst she'll normally do is plant or a small swerve, and she'll do her best to take me with her.

Obviously she's coming off the alfalfa immediately and, if she isn't back to herself in a few days, I'll get the vet out. But can alfalfa really cause that much of a change?
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I've only known of one horse who was said to react very badly to lucerne. (I refuse to call it alfalfa - the American name for it.) She was a highly-strung TB who, unfortunately, had a somewhat interesting owner. However, I feel there might well have been some truth in it. (She was not 'my sort of horse', but it would have been interesting to see how she behaved under a normal owner.)

It seems to be somewhat unusual though, this intolerance to... lucerne.
 
Lucerne intolerance seems rare here. I am feeding both mine on lucerne baleage this winter instead of hay. They love it and there is no waste. Both look amazing and have heaps of energy without loosing the plot.
 
I commented on DM's original thread a couple of years ago that alfalfa made my Appy photosensitive. He retorted that there was no vet reports so I responded that I'd told my vet who had just said she was relieved I found the cause - I don't think she even contemplated writing a paper on it.

Promptly banned.
 
Ah David Marlin, self proclaimed expert on everything and nobody is allowed to disagree with him. Not sure how he’s got such a god following to be honest.

The hooligan (for those who remember him) couldn’t have alfalfa as it brought him out in hives and he started behaving like he was electrified. You’d touch him and he’d leap.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Mmmmm, DM obviously never met our 2nd Appaloisa mare - she couldn't tolerate carrots either.

Only very recently my new GP told me that there is no scientific reason for me to react to maize, over 20 yrs since the allergy consultant that my previous surgery referred me to, told me that was one of the causes of my various debilitating symptoms. I am afraid that pleasant as he is, he has fallen into a similar category as DM in my mind.

I prefer to listen to my horses they really are the experts in their own bodies.
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Yep. And horses, like people, are very individual in their reactions to foodstuffs. Just because research says that a particular substance is good for 99.99% horses (or people) it doesn't mean it is in the very individual circumstances you are in. Or it could just mean I've had the 0.01% - though I doubt it, they've just needed some observation and thought put into constructing their dinners.........
 
catkin said:
Yep. And horses, like people, are very individual in their reactions to foodstuffs. Just because research says that a particular substance is good for 99.99% horses (or people) it doesn't mean it is in the very individual circumstances you are in. Or it could just mean I've had the 0.01% - though I doubt it, they've just needed some observation and thought put into constructing their dinners.........
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Indeed. Fin started coughing when I started feeding him Honeychop Lite. He stopped coughing when I stopped feeding that and gave him a grass-based chaff (Dengie Pure Grass....I should still take out shares in Dengie!). But it will never be in any vet report because like a lot of owners who see a change in their horse corresponding to a change in feed, I just rejigged the feed, which solved the problem, almost immediately. Never needed the vet.

I haven't read Marlin's alfalfa article, but I would take a guess that he is claiming that there is no science or evidence from peer-reviewed studies supporting an alfalfa intolerance or sensitivity? I don't think there is much funding for that sort of study, and it tends to be the sort of thing that owners experiment with when horse is NQR. How many times on this forum do we suggest "change the feed" when someone posts about problematic behaviour? Usually as something to try before you call the vet. If the horse reverts to being a paragon of virtue after the owner has eliminated a certain feed, the owner makes a note of "can't feed him this" but that data point never gets amalgamated into any body of evidence.
 
I’ve yet to come across a reactivity, none of my Welsh D Xs or my Welsh D have bothered with it, even with Kia being cereal intolerant so definitely feed sensitive alfalfa was fine for him. Also from all my friends who have horses past and present I’ve never seen an alfalfa intolerance.
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
I’ve yet to come across a reactivity, none of my Welsh D Xs or my Welsh D have bothered with it, even with Kia being cereal intolerant so definitely feed sensitive alfalfa was fine for him. Also from all my friends who have horses past and present I’ve never seen an alfalfa intolerance.
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But that doesn't mean that no other horses aren't intolerant of it. Cereal intolerance is very unlikely to increase the likelihood of alfalfa intolerance. I am allergic to all aliums, it doesn't increase my likelihood of being allergic to any other plant
 
YorksG said:
But that doesn't mean that no other horses aren't intolerant of it. Cereal intolerance is very unlikely to increase the likelihood of alfalfa intolerance. I am allergic to all aliums, it doesn't increase my likelihood of being allergic to any other plant
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Where in my reply did I say no other horses could be intolerant? I’m allergic to all things coconut but I can eat other Fruits just fine, also other tree nuts just fine 🤷🏼‍♀️ as for the alfalfa thing none of mine have had it, nor my friends, nor any of the many horses I’ve cared for in my decent length of horse life experience.

I just stayed my experience with it, TBH I take what DM writes about with a pinch of salt most times anyway. It states that it’s a medium energy feed so I’d expect it to add more pep to my horse if I wasn’t feeding anything like the energy level it provides. So attitudes will change based on That but I wouldn’t call it an intolerance just because my horse acted up with a feed energy increase, I’d call it normal. FE if I fed Faran a scoop of oats daily and he was spicier undersaddle than he normally is I would know why, but I wouldnt see it as a feed intolerance as I’d expect him to be more energetic due to the ride in energy level from the feed. Kia on the other hand came out in hives, got aggressive and stressed and his hair fell out. That to me is a true feed intolerance but again just my experience and interpretation🙂
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
Where in my reply did I say no other horses could be intolerant? I’m allergic to all things coconut but I can eat other Fruits just fine, also other tree nuts just fine 🤷🏼‍♀️ as for the alfalfa thing none of mine have had it, nor my friends, nor any of the many horses I’ve cared for in my decent length of horse life experience.

I just stayed my experience with it, TBH I take what DM writes about with a pinch of salt most times anyway. It states that it’s a medium energy feed so I’d expect it to add more pep to my horse if I wasn’t feeding anything like the energy level it provides. So attitudes will change based on That but I wouldn’t call it an intolerance just because my horse acted up with a feed energy increase, I’d call it normal. FE if I fed Faran a scoop of oats daily and he was spicier undersaddle than he normally is I would know why, but I wouldnt see it as a feed intolerance as I’d expect him to be more energetic due to the ride in energy level from the feed. Kia on the other hand came out in hives, got aggressive and stressed and his hair fell out. That to me is a true feed intolerance but again just my experience and interpretation🙂
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So you would agree that my horse had an alfalfa intolerance when his behaviour changed when I fed him 200g of food that was probably less than 10% alfalfa, then. Absolutely nothing to do with too much energy in the food.

I don't know why you have expanded on how you've never seen one, when others of us clearly have.
 
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It was certainly true for my Haflinger. He was driven mad by itching when he started being fed alfalfa. Took him off it and he was fine again.

ETA my other horses have all been fine with it.
 
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Roasted Chestnuts said:
I’ve yet to come across a reactivity, none of my Welsh D Xs or my Welsh D have bothered with it, even with Kia being cereal intolerant so definitely feed sensitive alfalfa was fine for him. Also from all my friends who have horses past and present I’ve never seen an alfalfa intolerance.
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Interestingly my highly feed reactive WelshX couldn't tolerate cereals or molasses but thrived on alfalfa, which at the time (1980's) we struggled to get for her. But we have had others who needed to avoid alfalfa
 
Goldenstar said:
But Alfalfa is rocket fuel so if you swop Hifi for Alfalfa seeing changes is entirely normal .

I think Alfalfa is a great feed for horses in medium to hard work .
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Dengie grass pellets and alfalfa pellets have very similar energy levels. Having had one, I really don't think people are talking about calorie levels here and maybe the "rocket fuel" effect is due to something else, which in susceptible horses causes hives and/or extreme behaviour.
 
ycbm said:
So you would agree that my horse had an alfalfa intolerance when his behaviour changed when I fed him 200g of food that was probably less than 10% alfalfa, then. Absolutely nothing to do with too much energy in the food.

I don't know why you have expanded on how you've never seen one, when others of us clearly have.
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why shouldn’t I expand on my thoughts, it’s an open forum 🙂 I’m perfectly entitled to as do you and others have the right to disagree, whole point of differing view points after all
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Interestingly my highly feed reactive WelshX couldn't tolerate cereals or molasses but thrived on alfalfa, which at the time (1980's) we struggled to get for her. But we have had others who needed to avoid alfalfa
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It was my go to for energy to hunt, jump, do common rides as I couldn’t give him much if anything else higher in energy as it was just horrible for him (and me 😅)
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
why shouldn’t I expand on my thoughts, it’s an open forum 🙂 I’m perfectly entitled to as do you and others have the right to disagree, whole point of differing view points after all
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But you can't (as in it isn't possible, not that you aren't allowed) "disagree" with people who are telling you that their experience is that they have owned an alfalfa intolerant horse.

It doesn't matter how many horses you or anyone else has owned that are not alfalfa intolerant, it remains the case that others have had horses which are.
.
 
ycbm said:
But you can't (as in it isn't possible, not that you aren't allowed) "disagree" with people who are telling you that their experience is that they have owned an alfalfa intolerant horse.

It doesn't matter how many horses you or anyone else has owned that are not alfalfa intolerant, it remains the case that others have had horses which are.
.
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I was disagreeing with the article more than anything, also just stating my experience with using alfalfa, I never stated that I didn’t believe in the intolerance as I have already stated above.
 
SmartieBean09 said:
Science tells us no and in the past I’d have agreed but Patsy is unrideable on it!
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I'm not sure science tells us no, are there any scientific studies?

David Marlin tells us no, but since he once also told us that stone stables are colder than wood stables and horses in them should be rugged more, I'll take that with a big pinch of salt!
 
Goldenstar said:
But Alfalfa is rocket fuel so if you swop Hifi for Alfalfa seeing changes is entirely normal .

I think Alfalfa is a great feed for horses in medium to hard work .
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I thought Dengie HiFi contained alfalfa (obvs not as much as the Alfa specific products!)
 
My young one does really well on alfalfa chaffs. I used Alfa A Oil for him (until the price shot up) and tried my Welsh on it for a short period and it sent the Welsh absolutely loopy 🤣. But I have since tried other alfalfa chaffs and he’s not as wild on those.
 
I have seen it before too. My sane and not normally affected by feed Welsh D x TB went crackers on a fairly small quantity of alfalfa. He had hives as a reaction too.

And I tried on more than one occasion, as a chaff and as pellets. Same reaction each time.

The horse in question was in hard work at the time and when the alfalfa didn’t work out, was being fed oats and the higher energy grass pellets instead. So I don’t think it was the higher energy content that was a factor.

My Connemara also came out in hives when fed similar.

About ten years on they do now all get a chaff, which lists alfalfa as an ingredient, with no adverse effect. But it is a fairly long way down the ingredients list. And they’re only fed small quantities. So the effect is likely negligible 😊
 
As an update on Blue, she's been off the alfalfa for two days and is still a little spookier than usual (one particular corner of the school is Untrustworthy) but I think a lot of that may be due to my nerves coming back. Blue's always been a horse who, if she runs away from something scary, we're both getting out of there because she's looking after me. Looking back at the video and my vague memories of my fall, she absolutely wanted me OFF this time, which is extremely out of character.

Unfortunately, she's also gone back to refusing to eat her bucket feed (Dengie Meadow Grass, if anybody around me wants most of a sack that's apparently Foul Poison), so I'm back to the start of trying to get her bloody vitamin E into her.

Horses! Who'd have 'em!
 
We have four on our yard. 2 are on feed that contain alfalfa. My 2 are on alfa a oil and alfalfa pellets. Nome of them have had a reaction or changed personality in any way.
 
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