How would you handle this?

[ester]

MOT
speak to loaners and find out exactly how she was with them/how much she was doing (If she is yours surely you would want to know if she was going to pony club several times a week or only hacking round the block on a saturday?/whether anything has happened that might have made her worse/hurt.
turn her out for a bit so you can chill out about it then start again/get someone else to start her again.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Lovely. the girl adored her....i dont actually know what was done ridden wise... she was 45 mins from me...i did visit but didnt see her ridden - just in the field looking fab

so afraid my answer is havent a clue.

ok, so a just backed youngster who is tricky is sent away to be backed, sent on loan and then brought back. I am not judging what was done but it is alot to happen to a youngster. Different ways of handling, riding, management-all it takes is one wee hole in her education somewhere, that is addressed in different ways by different handlers and then problems escalate. Its easy to demonize youngsters but personally I would talk carefully to loaners and turn her away for a bit. Do some groundwork before chucking her out and end on a good note. Start again begininng of September while you still have weather and light and see how you get on.

 

[twiggy2]

my last horse i lost from having incurable ulcers and in all honest my current mare isnt the same except the spooking.

I will bear it in mind over the next 2 weeks, but i will take her back to baby basics[ i wont turn her away utterly as she is ten time worse] and focus on getting her out of my space

she does know now to not put her back/legs in my space as she will get told off - she used to be horrible for this -

she does have an attitude problem - but she ALWAYS has.... thats nothing new.

she is a different horse so even if she is suffering from the same problem why would she respond in exactly the same way?
I would start with a vet check, she went to be backed after being a confident non spooky youngster all the time you had had her, she was well behaved being backed, she went and was worked as a newly backed youngster but you have no idea what was done with her, now you have a youngster that is showing classic pain or fear responses and are going to just carry on?

my mare can appear very confident but it only takes an unjustified tap with the whip to upset her and have her on edge for the next few rides-in the wrong hands stuff can go wrong very easily and maybe you should just check that she is not showing you a pain response.
horses do not lie, if they spook they are scared but you need to find out why

 

[hihosilver]

I think if you have the finances you should send her away to a professional to be schooled and hacked out. I think this will sort your mare out and you could go and ride her whilst she is there.

 

[leflynn]

I'd eliminate pain then crack on, it sounds to me like she knows the score if she is bright and has worked out how to get away with naughtiness- the spooking/ playing up on the lunge. I'd work on getting her to do exactly as you want when you want on the ground, then longline/lunge with two lines as you can control them better that way Sir refuses to lunge properly without 2 lines and has worked out exactly how to get round most things...

She sounds like she needs stability and a leader (you), good luck

 

[old hand]

Sounds like it might be a salt deficiency to me. if she has been sweating a lot I would feed a full spectrum of vitamins and minerals and two heaped tablespoons of salt for a 600kg horse plus some chaff but no other feed. have one that gets super spooky if he sweats and this returns him to the quiet person he normally is and he has plenty of energy. Without it he is super spooky and very lazy. If you google salt deficiency horse you will find a very interesting article by an Australian vet whohas done a lot of research on the subject. salt licks only deliver a fraction of the salt they need according to her, and feed does not have much in as it makes it go soggy. Was sceptical but tried it and it worked. Also another horse that can be sharp is laid back, and the grumpy one ( very nasty really) is being nice. and it costs 30p a week for the three of them.

 

[honetpot]

Its hard to judge as an outsider because although you sound confident you seem to see everything as a battle when really a lot of horsemanship is persuading the horse that you are the boss and often confrontation reinforces bad behaviour. Knowing when to pick your battles and when to make things look as if that is what you wanted them to do all along, while inwardly seething is part of the challenge.

As lots of people have said you need to find out if there are physical problems and find out what went off on loan, it may be simply they got off when ever she threw a strop. All the activities that you have described doing with her are no fun, if she is bright repetition will be boring and the spare brain power has time to work out strategies of how not to do this. You have a problem that you do not feel safe riding her now and you feel you have no control. I am not a fan of new age thinking but I think you have to find a way to reward her more positively, perhaps some clicker training so she knows there is an objective for her even if its one pony nut.

I think you are going to need help perhaps another horse and rider that can walk out with you so both she and you can try and relax. I know you do not want to turn her away, but do not perceive this as her winning. What you are doing now is not working, so you have to step back and try a different tack, thats you being smart.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think it be worth getting her a full MOT and if she's OK, talk to someone like Janet George who really knows what they are doing with this sort of case.

 

[noodle_]

she had an accident tonight.... literally just after i posted this too..

shes scared of dog's i know this already [see earlier posts about her incidents]... but tonight she was being long reined by me- i was thinking positive.......she was going well - bit joggy and on her toes but started to settle so took her around the field [or tried too] next door to the paddock....

unfortunately she completely freaked out... and bolted.... i now know why - dogs. the dogs are in a kennel - secure - but she completely lost it and bolted...

i couldnt hold her, she ran into the paddock and did 2 wall of deaths and then tried to jump the 5 bar gate out the paddock

fortunately she didnt make it as the angle she was going at she would have broken her neck...

she then galloped off again and tried to jump the fence again, galloped some more and a guy managed to catch her from outside the paddock - there was NOTHING i could do

shes cut her leg's up and chest - she will be bloody sore tomorrow. but luckily all superficial just some nice scars.

so it's dogs..... im just grateful i wasnt on her,

but this puts the big question to me... she isnt safe. She could have seriously injured a rider - she used to be such a confident girl - where the heck did i got wrong?

and what on earth to do now...??

tonight was terrifying... i couldnt do anything but watch my horse try to jump fences to get away as she was so scared. Hacking is way out of the question for a very long time.... but riding?? shes bolted once...?

 

[Polos Mum]

If she got away from you long reining she'd have had two long reins dragging along behind her - which would have made the spook/ wall of death much worse.

not read all the pages of replies but depending on your finances I'd 1) let her recover from todays incident then get full vet work up from top to toe to rule out anything physical. or (what I would do) 2) pop her out in the field for winter and try rebacking again in spring - sounds like you're both spiralling downwards so a good long break is needed to stop the cycle.

 

[noodle_]

If she got away from you long reining she'd have had two long reins dragging along behind her - which would have made the spook/ wall of death much worse.

not read all the pages of replies but depending on your finances I'd 1) let her recover from todays incident then get full vet work up from top to toe to rule out anything physical. or (what I would do) 2) pop her out in the field for winter and try rebacking again in spring - sounds like you're both spiralling downwards so a good long break is needed to stop the cycle.

normally i would agree and perhaps the lines may have been an omg factor but shes had them trailing a couple of times before [mostly in her strops] and nothing phases her...

it was just a rediculous situation which cant have been avoided really as i would never have expected such a huge reaction from her....but im not sure the way forward

as per other replies - turning her away right now isnt an option as she turns into the beast from hell.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I wonder if she's been chased by a dog without you knowing?

My grey was chased for several laps of the field once and it was purely luck that i saw, as I was returning from a hack and could see what was going on over the hedge but could do nothing - it's a horrible helpless feeling watching with no hope of stopping what's unfolding before your eyes. That one incident has completely changed her reaction to loose dogs.

I hope your mare is OK.

 

[noodle_]

I wonder if she's been chased by a dog without you knowing?

My grey was chased for several laps of the field once and it was purely luck that i saw, as I was returning from a hack and could see what was going on over the hedge but could do nothing - it's a horrible helpless feeling watching with no hope of stopping what's unfolding before your eyes. That one incident has completely changed her reaction to loose dogs.

I hope your mare is OK.

i couldnt say either way - she may have been - who knows?

as above previous posts she has been run at by different dogs - one dog used to go for her regularly bite her nose [so im not shocked she dosent like them...does make my life more difficult though]

im not sure where to even go from here??

theres no question the horse dosent leave the yard until she has more confidence, as out hacking we WILL meet dog's...all loose and i quite like my neck... so rather not snap it or loose my horse...its just pure dangerous

a spook i can deal with - or a quick spin - but she will run.. she did the other day when my friend rode her - but shes strong and it wasnt a paniced spook so she pulled up

 

[MotherOfChickens]

is she teething? turned my old horse into a over-reactive fool for a while when he was 4/5. have you tried a different bit mouthpiece-if she has a thick tongue/low roof then jointed bits might be uncomfortable. I am a long reining fan but it can put a lot of pressure on a young horse's mouth when they prat about and the answer to that is to run.

just throwing ideas out there since stopping isn't an answer.

 

[noodle_]

is she teething? turned my old horse into a over-reactive fool for a while when he was 4/5. have you tried a different bit mouthpiece-if she has a thick tongue/low roof then jointed bits might be uncomfortable. I am a long reining fan but it can put a lot of pressure on a young horse's mouth when they prat about and the answer to that is to run.

just throwing ideas out there since stopping isn't an answer.

thank you

she had her teeth done this year - but wont do her any harm to get the dentist out again as part of her MOT..

shes in a rubber snaffle as i find she really liked this - used for everything lunging/long reining etc

thank you again for the reply.

 

[Kezzabell2]

my recommendation would be a good instructor! my 4yr old was going great! realised he was bigger than me, started planting and I couldn't move his arse for love nor money! 2 lesson with an equine behaviourist, I've got on top of it, hes no longer lazy, moves away with one squeeze of the leg! before my old instructor was planning on bringing me some spurs to try on him! now I wouldn't need them at all! hes so much more relaxed and so am I!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I just read your post from today-sorry, hadn't seen it before. I'm sorry, I know how disheartening this can be with a youngster. My old horse was a saint as a 4yo and scared me to death as a 5yo. We had two major whip rounds and bolting home-without me. As a 6yo he got better (and I had to learn to sit the spins and also prevent them, no more falls) and by 7, he was my perfect horse. He was never scared of anything he could see and hear but was very sound reactive as a youngster.

I hope she's ok and heal quickly. Sounds like some very gradual desensitisation is required. Its tricky because I think whenever they learn a behaviour that works for them (rearing/spinning etc) they'll fall back on it in times of duress-so at some point someone has to show her it won't work. This of course after she's been given the benefit of the doubt (MOT etc), not right now.

 

[noodle_]

I just read your post from today-sorry, hadn't seen it before. I'm sorry, I know how disheartening this can be with a youngster. My old horse was a saint as a 4yo and scared me to death as a 5yo. We had two major whip rounds and bolting home-without me. As a 6yo he got better (and I had to learn to sit the spins and also prevent them, no more falls) and by 7, he was my perfect horse. He was never scared of anything he could see and hear but was very sound reactive as a youngster.

I hope she's ok and heal quickly. Sounds like some very gradual desensitisation is required. Its tricky because I think whenever they learn a behaviour that works for them (rearing/spinning etc) they'll fall back on it in times of duress-so at some point someone has to show her it won't work. This of course after she's been given the benefit of the doubt (MOT etc), not right now.

thanks.

im just grateful i wasnt sat on her.

Im more than happy to spend all the time in the world with her sitting next to the kennels if i need too....i may even ask if she can go graze out there for a day [next to dog kennels]... so she can get used to it but not just yet ive every confidence she will do another version of today..............

 

[3Beasties]

I'd definitely find out what the loaners did with her.

Has her spooking got worse since you got the new saddle?

Also I would be wondering if her behavior could be down to being unsettled due to moving yards a lot recently.

 

[noodle_]

I'd definitely find out what the loaners did with her.

Has her spooking got worse since you got the new saddle?

Also I would be wondering if her behavior could be down to being unsettled due to moving yards a lot recently.

nope shes just same old - didnt cross my mind before except with the dogs [who have always been there] she started getting spooky before i rode her, odd little bits - now even when i lunge her shes spooky - makes no odds saddle on or not to be honest

shes never unsettled in all honesty - shes had a lot of upheaval in her short life but settles instantly... this is genuinly the most chilled ive ever seen her - i commented the other day to someone how chilled she had become in her stable/happy etc..


ets - sorry that sounded dismissive,,,just trying to answer everyones questions as much as i can so you can get a full picture. :]

 

[3Beasties]

shes never unsettled in all honesty - shes had a lot of upheaval in her short life but settles instantly... this is genuinly the most chilled ive ever seen her - i commented the other day to someone how chilled she had become in her stable/happy etc..

Not trying to disagree but from what you have posted she doesn't sound chilled or happy in the slightest. She may well be on the ground/handling wise but it doesn't mean she's not unsettled and because of that she is finding 'work' to much to cope with.

 

[Pingypo]

This doesn't sound a very positive introduction to working life for a young horse.

Agreed. Everything takes time. The horse is still very young. Could be medical etc but maybe it's just all a bit much. Try taking a step back.

 

[noodle_]

i will

more than happy to take a step back - she cant be fully out of work but that may well just mean an in-hand walk instead for 5 mins just to keep her brain active

i just want the best for her - she was settled until about a week and a bit ago and she just lost the plot

 

[Pingypo]

Just take it easy and you my find she relaxes and chills out a bit more. She out?

 

[Polos Mum]

Is she out with a handful of horses her own age? I'd be surprised if a gang of 4 year olds wouldn't keep her occupied (if a 5 min walk in hand is all your planning to do)
I find time and Dr Green fixes many things - she is really very very young and stress does funny thing to animals/ people

If your toddler doesn't get enough sleep they get hyperactive ! not tired - how can you look at a kid charging around all the time and decide they are tired - but being too crazy is a classic symptom of not enough sleep in kids.

 

[noodle_]

shes had 6 days off [was not planned] and she came back bouncing

i will give her a week off regardless because of her cuts/cracking she took - and need to keep an eye on her chest as im bothered about fluid [she really thwacked it]

and just do some gentle in hand walks... and perhaps start going back to yearling ground work again - get her confidence up a little while shes recovering?

shes in a herd of various ages and very pally with a couple but equally happy on her own too

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Having just had one diagnosed with ulcers I have to agree with this. With ours the more work she did, the more of a cow she became. You could never tire her out first, she would just get more fast & more naughty x

I used to have one like this. Eventually we found that she was extremely sensitive to cereals and sugar.
OP, you say you don't feed her and yet also that you bring her in to a feed when she has been caught. Are you giving her anything at all other grass? Treats/supplements/alfalfa/anything at all? We have one now who goes wappy if she eats carrots.

I would turn this horse away for at least a month, preferably longer, have all the checks done again, preferably by different professionals and resolve to stop fighting her - there are better ways to get your own way. Our 4 yr old often says 'NO' but we work round her and persuade, rather than force her to do what we want.

 

[noodle_]

I used to have one like this. Eventually we found that she was extremely sensitive to cereals and sugar.
OP, you say you don't feed her and yet also that you bring her in to a feed when she has been caught. Are you giving her anything at all other grass? Treats/supplements/alfalfa/anything at all? We have one now who goes wappy if she eats carrots.

I would turn this horse away for at least a month, preferably longer, have all the checks done again, preferably by different professionals and resolve to stop fighting her - there are better ways to get your own way. Our 4 yr old often says 'NO' but we work round her and persuade, rather than force her to do what we want.

yes some treats...good point - will knock those on the head now and go for sugar free polos.

she occasionally has chaff - alfalfa no molasses - when shes been ridden - for a treat - literally half a handful...

she isnt allowed carrots.

i will get the vet to give her an mot.

 

[*Whinney*]

No wonder the poor girl is scared of dogs. Was the nose biting before or after the chasing/stomping? I hope she recovers quickly from her accident and that you can work something out for her.

i couldnt say either way - she may have been - who knows?

as above previous posts she has been run at by different dogs - one dog used to go for her regularly bite her nose [so im not shocked she dosent like them...does make my life more difficult though]

Trying to answer any questions/give more background so generally;

She is FEARLESS. i mean this genuinly nothing scares her - shes walked over tarp, i threw shavings bags at her as a baby - rugs etc - so shes grown up having things thrown at her - she will pick up bags, stomp on things - if shes unsure of anything she will try to murder it rather than run away

e.g dogs - she was run at by three german sheperds [different times]... the last one that ran at her she tried to kill not run away..[stomped it] i was mortified but the dog owner had let his dog run at us [dog was fine thank god]

 

[noodle_]

No wonder the poor girl is scared of dogs. Was the nose biting before or after the chasing/stomping? I hope she recovers quickly from her accident and that you can work something out for her.

last year... she was stabled at the time and really started here

then hacking she had a dog run at her... she didnt flinch though - just side stepped

then another dog [gsd not that the breed matters but every dog thats gone for her was a gsd....] ... ran at her while i was leading her accross the yard - dg was friendly but she didnt know that - and she went up and tried to stomp on it