Hunting and Equine flu

ester

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Bonny you really do need to go off and do some reading to better your understanding.

As stated there are specific reasons the current human flu vaccination has a lower efficacy if you had looked into that properly.

You asked if people were worried about getting flu themselves and when people said hell yeah you berate them for using personal experiences.

I am not using personal experiences I am using my professional knowledge as a molecular microbiologist who has previously been involved in designing rapid tests for respiratory panels that include influenza, (tests that anyone can do and get a result in an hour) because it is that important to get a diagnosis rapidly.
 

ycbm

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I've never been vaccinated against the flu, but afaik in humans, age and current health status determine whether vaccination is advisable. I'd imagine my GP would suggest it, if she thought it was advisable.

Current health status only determines whether the NHS will pay for it, not whether it's advisable. The NHS decision is based only on what it will cost the NHS if not done, compared to the cost of vaccinating tens of millions of people. I'm sure your GP would approve of you paying for it yourself, unless you have a rare condition which means you definitely shouldn't have it.

In the horse world, of course, the cost is born by the keeper of the horse, so the decision is a no brainer for any horse that leaves home and many that don't.
 
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I just read the BBC report that states the 4 new cases in Newmarket were vaccinated within 6 months. My vets are all saying revaccinate if not done within 6 months so was hoping that would offer a significant benefit over those vaccinated within the year ? Ester can you help with that ?
 

ester

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I don’t think it’s quantifiable as the numbers of vaccinated and infected are small to determine ‘signifcant’ As opposed to it being the only thing they can offer currently. With the sequencing it should be clearer as to whether some protection is being conferred or not. I’ve not had a chance to look to see when we should expect that.
 
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I don’t think it’s quantifiable as the numbers of vaccinated and infected are small to determine ‘signifcant’ As opposed to it being the only thing they can offer currently. With the sequencing it should be clearer as to whether some protection is being conferred or not. I’ve not had a chance to look to see when we should expect that.
Thanks ester, that was my guess that we basically need to wait for them to actually find out how useful the vaccine is going to be. It's just with the concensus being 6 months to redo them was best, I wanted to be sure but mine are only 7.5 months so I'll wait for more info I think
 
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I just read the BBC report that states the 4 new cases in Newmarket were vaccinated within 6 months. My vets are all saying revaccinate if not done within 6 months so was hoping that would offer a significant benefit over those vaccinated within the year ? Ester can you help with that ?


Personally I’d base it on a combination of factors



How much traffic (moving horses, farriers, vets) at your yard?

How much nearby traffic e.g. neighbouring yards?

How close are you to the outbreak?

Were your horses definitely vacinated with strain that contains FC1?

How easily can you get a vet up for something else / someone else and avoid an additional call out?

Does your horse react to vaccines?

Can you afford it without it making other things tight? (vets state they are partly advising re vaccinating to increase the UK HERD IMMUNITY, so if you can afford it, it is being described as beneficial to ALL)

Are you looking to compete / do clinics in next few months? (As many places are requiring booster in last six months)

Are any of your horses higher risk e.g. v old, COPD etc.

My horse was vaccinated in september, I have a vet coming for something else 25th February, I will get flu vaccine topped up then, as it outside six months on 6th February. The extra £42 cost for one horse is worth it for minor piece of mind, that the horses with right vaccine and with it administered in last six months seem to be the ones that recover fastest, with least complications.


As an aside, my vets have said this morning, there have been no outbreaks with the vaccine strain they use (though they acknowledge that it may be coincidence and not the protection).
 
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Whiteflower, none of the Simon Crisford four showed any signs of infection when swabbed on Friday, though it's not clear if any of them show symptoms now. They were jabbed less than 6 months ago.

If having a recent booster lessens the symptoms it's got to be worth doing.
My question really I suppose was the difference between the amount of lessening of symptoms between 6 months and 7.5 months. Having looked at flying high list above I think they are good things to take into consideration.
Also it doesn't say if they are showing symptoms now as you correctly point out.
ETA - there is a lot of piecemeal info flying about. I'm hoping that there will be a statement by aht at some point soon clarifying the situation and the ongoing recommendations
 
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My question really I suppose was the difference between the amount of lessening of symptoms between 6 months and 7.5 months. Having looked at flying high list above I think they are good things to take into consideration.
Also it doesn't say if they are showing symptoms now as you correctly point out.
ETA - there is a lot of piecemeal info flying about. I'm hoping that there will be a statement by aht at some point soon clarifying the situation and the ongoing recommendations


I think it is to do with the graph of falling antibodies available after vaccine. The number peaks (I think a few weeks after vaccination) and then steadily drops until next annual vaccination date. The thinking is the antibodies are at a possibly high enough level until six months, and then lower than ideal in the face of the current outbreak. It isnt absolute, it is probably based on sensible guess work what is high enough, when looking at antibody level graphs, but it is the current universal thinknig and recommendations from all bodies at the moment.



Lingfield vets have done this myth busting post = http://www.lingfieldequinevets.com/news/cases-blog-2/equine-flu-update
 
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SEL

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actually, some flu strains will kill healthy adults-it puts the immune system into overdrive and paradoxically, the healthier you are the harder it hits. and flu doesnt really feel like a bad cold-even a really bad head cold, its quite different.
I think I shook for 3 whole days when I had it in 2003. I was overseas & it was one of the most miserable fortnights of my life - I literally couldn't get out of bed. Temperature sky high and feeling like I was floating whenever I woke up! I flew home 2 weeks in and my parents picked me up from Heathrow shocked at how much weight I'd lost. I then spent another 2 weeks with zero energy and minimal appetite.

I think it did build up some immunity though because when the big flu outbreak (can't remember if it was swine or bird) happened in 2009 I got a really, really bad cold and felt awful - but given everyone at work went off in waves with proper flu and was being given anti-virals I got away lightly.

My 2 are just outside the 6 months so I'm keeping an eye on what the AHT are recommending and will go down the booster route if it seems to be escalating. No cases near us right now and we've got minimal movements on the yard anyway.
 

Goldenstar

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It’s very unfortunate that there’s four positive results in Newmarket but it’s important to reflect that we have no base of how many horses would test positive outside an outbreak .
Loss if form with no clinical symptoms followed by a blood test showing higher than normal white cell count will often result in the diagnosis of the ‘virus ‘ some these horses may well be vaccinated horses who have had contact with the flu virus .
Happily for me my horses have had the vaccination which seems to be the most effective against this strain of the virus they are all having extra jabs on Wednesday I have opted to do them all.
I rode out this morning saw three lorry’s and two trailers so normal amount of people out and about .
I will continue to ride out and am debating clinics with myself atm .
 
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Whiteflower, none of the Simon Crisford four showed any signs of infection when swabbed on Friday, though it's not clear if any of them show symptoms now. They were jabbed less than 6 months ago.
just seen update from aht which says the new ones that have it Suffolk are showing raised temperature and nasal discharge 😔.
 

Tiddlypom

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just seen update from aht which says the new ones that have it Suffolk are showing raised temperature and nasal discharge 😔.
That's not the new Newmarket/Simon Crisford horses that were reported late last night, though, it's from the already affected non training premises in Suffolk. They are vaccinated 2yo TBs , but the AHT says that 'No details are yet available as to the specifics of the animals’ vaccination histories.'

Necessarily we are being drip fed information at the mo, which is understandable but frustrating.
 

Lammy

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I’m not sure you should compare cancer to flu
Not at all comparing. You stated that 27% of flu cases are asymptomatic, my point was a lot of killer diseases are also asymptomatic right before they kill you.
Flu is a killer disease believe it or not.

And I know you keep asking for personal statements and then dismissing them but I’ll say it anyway...I have a mild autoimmune disease (coeliac) which means I get GP recommendation to vax against flu and pneumonia. I would consider myself a fit, healthy young person but flu will take advantage of that autoimmune disorder should I ever catch it. So yes I get the injection and also stay well away from people with the flu (not that you see them as they’re normally laid up).
 
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That's not the new Newmarket/Simon Crisford horses that were reported late last night, though, it's from the already affected non training premises in Suffolk. They are vaccinated 2yo TBs , but the AHT says that 'No details are yet available as to the specifics of the animals’ vaccination histories.'

Necessarily we are being drip fed information at the mo, which is understandable but frustrating.
Yes it's quite confusing but I'm sure they are giving all the information they can. I have no idea who's horses are who just going from what the aht is saying. Having spoken to my vet at length today I'm happy with what course of action I want to take now. It's confusing with different authorities and the news putting bits of info out that don't tie up. Now I've decided what I'm doing I think I'll just put my ear muffs on unless there is any major change in advice !
 

bonny

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Not at all comparing. You stated that 27% of flu cases are asymptomatic, my point was a lot of killer diseases are also asymptomatic right before they kill you.
Flu is a killer disease believe it or not.

And I know you keep asking for personal statements and then dismissing them but I’ll say it anyway...I have a mild autoimmune disease (coeliac) which means I get GP recommendation to vax against flu and pneumonia. I would consider myself a fit, healthy young person but flu will take advantage of that autoimmune disorder should I ever catch it. So yes I get the injection and also stay well away from people with the flu (not that you see them as they’re normally laid up).
I’m not asking for personal statements, I said they were pointless. I was comparing people’s attitudes to flu and vaccinations in themselves and their horses. Human flu is everywhere and yet I don’t see everyone getting vaccinated or cancelling their plans ......the numbers even in over 65s where the vaccination is promoted and free ar dropping every year so why are so many people convinced their horses need extra boosters and that they are in real danger if they venture out ?
 

Pearlsasinger

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Personal accounts are just that ! I could just as easily say I had flu last year, felt rough for a couple of days and then was fine. Apparently 20% of people who would test positive for flu have no symptoms at all......non of this proves anything. How do you know when what feels like bad cold is actually flu ?

If you don't know the difference between flu and a bad cold, you have never had flu!
 

Meredith

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I’m not asking for personal statements, I said they were pointless. I was comparing people’s attitudes to flu and vaccinations in themselves and their horses. Human flu is everywhere and yet I don’t see everyone getting vaccinated or cancelling their plans ......the numbers even in over 65s where the vaccination is promoted and free ar dropping every year so why are so many people convinced their horses need extra boosters and that they are in real danger if they venture out ?
Why is a personal statement pointless? All statistics are surely a collection of personal statements.

Perhaps you haven’t visited your local doctor’s surgery recently. Mine has notices reminding everyone to have their flu jabs from autumn time. Special weekly clinics are held to vaccinate everyone. You won’t see people with flu. They will probably be in bed.

As an aside my mother was born not long after the 1918 epidemic and she remembers being told how frightened everyone was and they did not have any vaccine then.
 

Rowreach

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A couple of months ago, a nearby town was gridlocked for several hours (made the national news!) because of the big queue of people waiting for their flu jab, spilling out onto the main street :oops:

I've had flu twice, and both times I felt so ill and delirious that I would happily have died there and then. OH has had it twice and been hospitalised both times (he is vaccinated against everything but works in the sort of places where you pick up random strains of nasty things).

I wouldn't have shared my personal experiences obviously, but something(one) made me feel I had to ... ;)
 
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