Hunting and Equine flu

Tiddlypom

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Last night's AHT update includes this info on the Simon Crisford horses:-

All horses are vaccinated and the positive cases have been reported to be displaying no clinical signs to date.

I hope that anyone who goes hunting during this outbreak is required to have an up to date flu vaccination certificate inc a recent booster, as per competition requirements. Details to be checked prior to unboxing at the meet. I would hope that anyone keeping keeping their horses 1 mile away from an affected yard would stay at home (this is relevant to the Cheshire case).
 
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Ambers Echo

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Flu is vile, often kills and vaccinations for vulnerable people are essential. But I do think there is a big difference in how we behave around human flu. My OH was hospitalised with suspected swine flu. At that time it never occurred to me that I and the kids should stay at home. Nor to my employers or the the school. I worked in a hospital! So that is the equivalent of the field mate of horse with active flu still going out which would outrage everyone. But it honestly never occurred to me to quarantine our family. Nor did anyone suggest that I should. I doubt very much I would have been allowed to not work even if I had wanted to. Nor to keep my kids off school.

Yet the situation with horses is that many people feel - contrary to the official guidance - that horses with no known exposure to any infection and no clinical signs all stay at home anyway.

I don't agree that this is about people being selfish, competition hungry etc. I think it is all about risk perception. Flu in the leisure horse population has been on the up for months. I have known about it and been more flu-aware and vigilant for ages. My sense of risk did not change when the racing ban came in, nor has it reduced now that racing is back on. My view is that flu is a very low risk. And even though numbers are up they are still very low. And that a significant increase in a very low risk is still a very low risk.

I am curious as to how others perceive the risk if they are currently not in an outbreak area but are staying at home anyway to be on the safe side. When are people going to feel safe going out again? Because flu is endemic. It isn't going away. So it won't ever be 'over'.
 

meleeka

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Flu is vile, often kills and vaccinations for vulnerable people are essential. But I do think there is a big difference in how we behave around human flu. My OH was hospitalised with suspected swine flu. At that time it never occurred to me that I and the kids should stay at home. Nor to my employers or the the school. I worked in a hospital! So that is the equivalent of the field mate of horse with active flu still going out which would outrage everyone. But it honestly never occurred to me to quarantine our family. Nor did anyone suggest that I should. I doubt very much I would have been allowed to not work even if I had wanted to. Nor to keep my kids off school.

Yet the situation with horses is that many people feel - contrary to the official guidance - that horses with no known exposure to any infection and no clinical signs all stay at home anyway.

I don't agree that this is about people being selfish, competition hungry etc. I think it is all about risk perception. Flu in the leisure horse population has been on the up for months. I have known about it and been more flu-aware and vigilant for ages. My sense of risk did not change when the racing ban came in, nor has it reduced now that racing is back on. My view is that flu is a very low risk. And even though numbers are up they are still very low. And that a significant increase in a very low risk is still a very low risk.

I am curious as to how others perceive the risk if they are currently not in an outbreak area but are staying at home anyway to be on the safe side. When are people going to feel safe going out again? Because flu is endemic. It isn't going away. So it won't ever be 'over'.
Absolutely agree. If this had been a riding school instead of a racing yard we’d all be going about our business oblivious. People are having boosters then not believing that that will offer protection. It’s not the plague, it’s flu, which horses wil continue to get (and vaccination ensures that when they do the symptoms are mild) .
I’m far more worried about the constant threat of strangles which we have had locally with fatal consequences.
 

SEL

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Flu is vile, often kills and vaccinations for vulnerable people are essential. But I do think there is a big difference in how we behave around human flu. My OH was hospitalised with suspected swine flu. At that time it never occurred to me that I and the kids should stay at home. Nor to my employers or the the school. I worked in a hospital! So that is the equivalent of the field mate of horse with active flu still going out which would outrage everyone. But it honestly never occurred to me to quarantine our family. Nor did anyone suggest that I should. I doubt very much I would have been allowed to not work even if I had wanted to. Nor to keep my kids off school.

Yet the situation with horses is that many people feel - contrary to the official guidance - that horses with no known exposure to any infection and no clinical signs all stay at home anyway.

I don't agree that this is about people being selfish, competition hungry etc. I think it is all about risk perception. Flu in the leisure horse population has been on the up for months. I have known about it and been more flu-aware and vigilant for ages. My sense of risk did not change when the racing ban came in, nor has it reduced now that racing is back on. My view is that flu is a very low risk. And even though numbers are up they are still very low. And that a significant increase in a very low risk is still a very low risk.

I am curious as to how others perceive the risk if they are currently not in an outbreak area but are staying at home anyway to be on the safe side. When are people going to feel safe going out again? Because flu is endemic. It isn't going away. So it won't ever be 'over'.

My partner was working on the emergency planning committee at the time of swine flu and it was discussed whether or not people should stay at home. The science opinion was that people just wouldn't quarantine themselves or their family so there was no point in saying they should!!
 

ycbm

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I’m far more worried about the constant threat of strangles which we have had locally with fatal consequences.


I think there's an awful lot of fear raised about strangles just by having such a nasty name. A bit like ringworm. A livery and competitive yard that my friend was on had it. No horses were quarantined. Infected horses were turned out as usual. They continued with their monthly shows. It didn't create an epidemic in the area, all that happened was that a few of the liveries got a mild cold.

Like flu, it can be fatal to the immune compromised. But because it spreads by touch it's easier to contain than flu. Of course it's dreadful if it's your horse which has an undeveloped or compromised immune system and gets badly affected.

My impression, though, is that most horses have probably been exposed at some time and are largely immune.

I wish we had a vaccine, but mutated flu breaking through into vaccinated horses worries me at least as much as strangles, if not more.
 

Cortez

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There is a strangles vaccine, all of my horses were vaccinated in the US. I don't know why it's not been approved for use over here.
 

ester

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Yes there were issue with side effects and efficacy IIRC.

The frequent comparison of flu with strangles is doing my nut a bit. Todays special was along the lines of why are people fussing and treating as if it were as bad as it were strangles. It's good ignoring practice for me I suppose.
 

ycbm

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Yes there were issue with side effects and efficacy IIRC.

The frequent comparison of flu with strangles is doing my nut a bit. Todays special was along the lines of why are people fussing and treating as if it were as bad as it were strangles. It's good ignoring practice for me I suppose.


If there was a vaccine for both but you were only allowed one or the other, I'd choose the flu one over the strangles one. How about you, Ester?
 

Goldenstar

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There is a strangles vaccine, all of my horses were vaccinated in the US. I don't know why it's not been approved for use over here.

The side effects where pretty Horrific when the vaccine came out here I gave it six four out of six where ill.
Two very ill one one so ill he just missed being hospitalised I had the vet here for two hours in the middle of the night
The drug company paid all the bills .


It’s a no brainer if you vaccinate for one choose flu .
 

Mule

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I had an undiagnosed cushings horse that developed it. I think it was brought in to the herd by the horse that I compete. I remember he had been lethargic for a couple of days a few months earlier.

She was the only horse that became ill and despite her immune system she recovered. So it's definitely not comparable to flu. I'd imagine she wouldn't have recovered from flu.
 

conniegirl

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Hell yes! I can only assume you've never had a real case. I've had it at 14 and again last year 45 years later. Both times it wiped me out for weeks. My dose last year has left me with permanently reduced lung capacity and I now have an inhaler.

For a horse with a much longer, deeper airway, it can easily be career, or even life, ending.

Ditto this!
I had flu in my second year of Uni, I was a fit, healthy 19 year old with a good immune system. It resulted in an ITU stay, my parents abandoning their holiday in newzealand and getting emergency flights back to the UK as I was in such bad condition, 3 months off Uni (having to resit the year as I'd missed too much), permanent effects on my lungs so that I now have to take daily inhalers.

I wasn't vaccinated against flu at he time but you can bet your behind that I've had the flu vaccine every year since then, you can get the flu vaccine privately without a GP prescription for £7.

Ok then, I’ll put it a different way, how many of you are vaccinated against flu and how many alter your lives in case you come into contact with it ?

as stated above, yes I'm vaccinated, yes I would actively avoid anyone showing flu symptoms. Also if I were showing symptoms that may be flu I would not be leaving my house in order to protect those who are immune compromised.
Both my parents are vaccinated against flu (my mother is a nurse and my father is because he pays for it privately)
My sister and brother both pay privately for the flu vaccine.
My husband is vaccinated because the company he works for insists on it and pays for all their employees to be vaccinated.

If you have never had flu then you cannot know just how different flu is to a heavy cold.


I also had all my normal childhood vaccines and a good few that the general population of the UK won't have had due to my mothers expat wanderings during my childhood (i have lived in at least 10 different countries).
My brother is deadly allergic to the base that the whooping cough vaccine is in so we are very very aware of how herd immunity works as we have no other option than to rely on herd immunity for him. If whooping cough were going round then yes all of us including him would drastically change our lifestyle to avoid any contact with it,
 
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marotelle

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It's ok we can still hop over to France to race! They are still happy to welcome us lol!
That doesn't sourd very responsable,we are Also in the breeding season or at least as far as the thouroublood world is concerned ,a little unfair for the foals and broodmares.I would not send a mare over from the continent if she or her progeny would be in danger of catching the desease.....
 
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That doesn't sourd very responsable,we are Also in the breeding season or at least as far as the thouroublood world is concerned ,a little unfair for the foals and broodmares.I would not send a mare over from the continent if she or her progeny would be in danger of catching the desease.....

What I said was very tongue in cheek!

France is happy to let us head over and race with a clean swab and bill of health, they have flu over there, they arent denying it. They said the same to the competative sports horse world. Thats their choice. As it is of anyone who wishes to travel.

I personally wouldn't just now but many do.
 

sywell

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Im with you on this but sadly unless others follow suit it will be difficult to contain the virus. Im not saying I think we should panic or go into lockdown but it would be nice for people to be sensible and considerate to fellow liveries who are happy to miss a few events until its under control. From what Ive read it seems checking passports at events/clinics etc is pointless as it appears vaccinated horses have caught the new flu virus too.
We were advised to do annual vaccs then 6 monthly but even in high bio security racing yards horses who have been vacc with the correct vaccination have got flu. So is 6 monthly with H3N8 helping the virus develop a new strand of virus.
 
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