Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Sandstone1]

I do get why people who do actually trail hunt legally get annoyed when people call for all hunting to be banned but it seems real trail hunting is pretty rare.
So many hunts are fox hunting years after the ban.
So, so many incidents of kills, trespass, anti social behaviour, cruelty to horses and hounds and killing pets, upsetting livestock and so much more not to mention the webinars.
Hunting has been banned for more than long enough for hunts to get their acts together but no, they just continue.
It has to stop and it will.

 

[oldie48]

I live on the edge of Ledbury "country" and our local town fb page is full of complaints regarding the hunt going through a housing estate. Although I am off "country" I was notified that the hunt might be in the area tbh this is not unusual and I used to see the hunt regularly. Surely, if a hunt is following a laid trail they will stay in their own country? I've never had a problem with my local pack, they let me know when they are about, will even let me know an approx time, it' a real shame that not all hunts are following the letter of the law as it will definitely affect everyone who hunts including those who hunt legally.

 

[Indy]

I think there needs to be a governing body for hunting that comes down hard on illegal/irresponsible hunts. Hunts who are caught illegally hunting should be immediately disbanded. Hunts who are caught trespassing or causing damage should be severely fined and if it happens on more than one occasion, again should be disbanded.
This is what I would like to see happening so that legal and responsible hunts can carry on doing what they love.
Sadly I don't think this will happen. While I really do not want to see a ban, I think that is the way it is heading.

I also think that as well as a hefty fine for trespass they should be also made to pay for any damage and veterinary costs incurred although the loss of a much loved family pet at the hands of hunt I can't imagine there would be enough money in the world

 

[tallyho!]

That's exactly what I think should happen too. There are responsible hunts setting trails and maintaining control.

Unfortunately the ones that trespass, commit criminal damage and fail to set or follow a trail get the negative press - and rightly so.

It’s all so above the law right now; gallop away has it nailed. The thing is though, for many hunts it’s all about rights and freedoms, which they don’t understand will be much MUCH better if they regulated it all now.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I also think that as well as a hefty fine for trespass they should be also made to pay for any damage and veterinary costs incurred although the loss of a much loved family pet at the hands of hunt I can't imagine there would be enough money in the world

Oh most definitely!

 

[Sandstone1]

Warwickshire hunt have killed yet another fox today. Why is this allowed to go on?

 

[Koweyka]

Warwickshire hunt have killed yet another fox today. Why is this allowed to go on?

I can’t imagine the accompanying video will be pleasant, they should have been confined to kennels months ago.

 

[Sandstone1]

I can’t imagine the accompanying video will be pleasant, they should have been confined to kennels months ago.

Its just disgusting. No idea what the police think they are doing. Its a disgrace. How many times can they say its a accident. Trail hunting... My ****.

 

[Sandstone1]

Apparently the Police are investigating this latest kill by the Warwickshire. I really hope they do.

 

[YorksG]

Apparently the Police are investigating this latest kill by the Warwickshire. I really hope they do.

I agree, due process is the way to go.
If the sabs were concerned about the law, then I think people would have more respect for them. However Sheffield sabs trespassed to remove and steal mole traps and put up self congratulatory posts about it. Really you can't shout law breaking, if you then break the law imo

 

[Sandstone1]

I agree, due process is the way to go.
If the sabs were concerned about the law, then I think people would have more respect for them. However Sheffield sabs trespassed to remove and steal mole traps and put up self congratulatory posts about it. Really you can't shout law breaking, if you then break the law imo

I did not mention sabs at all. The warwickshire killed for the 6th time this season. That has nothing to do with sabs. It is illegal fox hunting. Why does this always have to turn in to pointless " Whataboutry"

 

[YorksG]

I did not mention sabs at all. The warwickshire killed for the 6th time this season. That has nothing to do with sabs. It is illegal fox hunting. Why does this always have to turn in to pointless " Whataboutry"

I don't see it as whataboutary, who has reported six kills?

 

[Sandstone1]

I don't see it as whataboutary, who has reported six kills?

So you would clearly like the kills not to be reported and illegal hunting continue?
That speaks volumes to me. Despite all the talk of trail hunting and how they stick to the law the very fact that you do not like kills reported tells me a lot.
A hunt kills and you blame sabs for reporting it?

 

[YorksG]

So you would clearly like the kills not to be reported and illegal hunting continue?
That speaks volumes to me. Despite all the talk of trail hunting and how they stick to the law the very fact that you do not like kills reported tells me a lot.
A hunt kills and you blame sabs for reporting it?

What a ridiculous statement and shows a huge lack of critical thinking. Reports of kills are not necessarily true. If there have been six kills, then hunts have become much more efficient than they were pre ban!
I do not support any law breaking, I hope that any alleged offence is investigated appropriately.
Do you agree that the source of a report could do to be squeaky clean themselves, in terms of offending history?

 

[palo1]

So you would clearly like the kills not to be reported and illegal hunting continue?
That speaks volumes to me. Despite all the talk of trail hunting and how they stick to the law the very fact that you do not like kills reported tells me a lot.
A hunt kills and you blame sabs for reporting it?

No, @YorksG simply said that Hunt Sabs emphasise the alleged law breaking in their reporting but themselves then brag about actual law breaking. That isn't whataboutery - it's entirely pertinent. I am not suggesting that alleged illegal hunting shouldn't be reported or investigated but the way in which Sabs repeatedly report their own law breaking seems not only a tad hypocritical but also discredits most of what they say/write about illegality.

 

[Sandstone1]

What a ridiculous statement and shows a huge lack of critical thinking. Reports of kills are not necessarily true. If there have been six kills, then hunts have become much more efficient than they were pre ban!
I do not support any law breaking, I hope that any alleged offence is investigated appropriately.
Do you agree that the source of a report could do to be squeaky clean themselves, in terms of offending history?

Well, in all cases there is video evidence... Guess the sabs killed the fox themselves?

 

[YorksG]

Well, in all cases there is video evidence... Guess the sabs killed the fox themselves?

If there is genuine evidence, not edited and can be proven to be in the time and place claimed, then that should be investigated by the police. If the video is taken by people who boast about breaking the law, then that may well cause some difficulties in using their alleged evidence.

 

[Sandstone1]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=545573953198454

I am not even going to bother arguing with you 2 as we know you [Inappropriate content removed]. Here is the video but no doubt you will have excuses for the hunt and why the trail is laid on a busy road. Again.

 

[YorksG]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=545573953198454

I am not even going to bother arguing with you 2 as we know you [Inappropriate content removed]. Here is the video but no doubt you will have excuses for the hunt and why the trail is laid on a busy road. Again.

Please do not suggest that I break the law, or condone others doing so. That is both incorrect and offensive.
An apology is required imo

 

[palo1]

Well, in all cases there is video evidence... Guess the sabs killed the fox themselves?

@Sandstone, you are determined to see any sab evidence as reliable, unedited, untampered with and 'legally obtained'. That is your position which is fair enough. BUT a dead fox is NOT necessarily sufficient evidence under the current Hunting Act to prove illegality and you should know that. That is largely why there are still so many issues around hunting. You must also know that many alleged hunting offences never come to court or are dismissed because either the evidence is not sufficient, not credible or there is an exemption in place. I agree that the silly Act is appalling but the police, the CPS and the courts have to deal with it the best they can. Just because you think, along with many anti-hunters that an offence has been committed; and in fact hounds may have killed a fox, that does NOT mean that it has been illegal or that the Police and the CPS feel they can take it further. It is pretty dire but we all know that the Hunting Act was not about foxes or their welfare and was appallingly drafted, deliberately entangled and with all manner of issues. On the anniversary weekend of the Hunting ban there are still 300 packs of hounds registered and active. The number of convictions for illegal hunting for those packs is tiny.

 

[palo1]

Please do not suggest that I break the law, or condone others doing so. That is both incorrect and offensive.
An apology is required imo

Yes, I would like an apology too; I have never suggested I support illegal hunting.

 

[Sandstone1]

Pleasw watch all of the video and tell me why they think they have a right to stop traffic on a main road?

 

[Sandstone1]

You will certainly not get a apology from me unless you would like to apologise to all the sabs you accuse of law breaking. I will be putting you all back on UI.

 

[YorksG]

Pleasw watch all of the video and tell me why they think they have a right to stop traffic on a main road?

You are conflating far too many issues at once. Stopping traffic is annoying and does not endear the hunt to the general public, just as any large number of none car road users annoy motorists. However, stopping the traffic is not evidence, by and of itself, if any other law breaking. You accuse others of whataboutery, but then post about blocking roads?

 

[YorksG]

You will certainly not get a apology from me unless you would like to apologise to all the sabs you accuse of law breaking. I will be putting you all back on UI.

I accused the sabs, who boast about their law breaking, of, law breaking?!

 

[Sandstone1]

I accused the sabs, who boast about their law breaking, of, law breaking?!

And I accuse hunters who clearly are hunting of killing foxes..

 

[palo1]

Pleasw watch all of the video and tell me why they think they have a right to stop traffic on a main road?

A horse rider or pedestrian does have the right to ask traffic to slow down or stop, in order to make safe progress. It's sometimes inconvenient but it is the Highway Code. There is no law to prevent a group of horses or dogs from proceeding down the road or crossing a road.

 

[palo1]

And I accuse hunters who clearly are hunting of killing foxes..

But you cannot know that hunters are actually hunting illegally; that has proven incredibly difficult to prove in law over the last 2 decades (nearly). How can you possibly 'know' this?. That statement is ridiculous frankly.

 

[Clodagh]

I know that sabs have presented edited videos at times but the idea that they never record a kill is equally nonsensical.
Propaganda regarding hunting is rife on both sides, I have to say mainly on the pros.

I actually came on this thread for info… how long is it before you find out if someone has been charged with animal cruelty, and how long is it likely to take for the case to come to court? I’m thinking specifically of Paul O’Shea skewering and bagging the fox. Koweyka do you know?

 

[Clodagh]

But you cannot know that hunters are actually hunting illegally; that has proven incredibly difficult to prove in law over the last 2 decades (nearly). How can you possibly 'know' this?. That statement is ridiculous frankly.

Sandstone actually said hunters are killing foxes. The videos do prove that. I’m off now, this thread is irritating!