Hunting is in a spot of bother

[luluphoto63]

Therein lies the issue....what is a humane way of controlling the population? Shooting is probably thought more humane but then a bad shot can leave the animal suffering for days. Some farmers also resort to poisoning which is an excruciating death.
It's something I've asked myself to. I used to be dead against hunting. Then met my husband who was from a farming background and saw some of the other side. I'm still not sure where I sit exactly on hunting. I have seen the damage caused by foxes and the affect it can have on farmers livelihoods, so I suppose I would go as far as to say controlling fox populations is a necessary evil.... but what is the best way to do that? I'm not so sure.

Foxes self regulate their numbers. I'm from a farming background, farmers who know a thing or 2 plus respect wildlife leave Foxes alone and work with the balance of nature. One farmer I know said in all her years of sheep farming only one lamb was taken by a Fox and she entirely blames herself because she made hay too early that year and Foxes went hungry without high enough field mice numbers. Foxes also keep rabbit populations down which some farmers like. Fox hunting is about the thrill of the chase and pleasure of seeing a terrified animal torn to bits in agony.

 

[luluphoto63]

I once had a conversation with a huntsman who pointed out a copse that had been planted by them 'to encourage the foxes to breed'.

?

Most hunts encourage Foxes to breed, often in articial earths, AE's. Bagged Foxes are used on hunts also.

 

[luluphoto63]

There are thousands of examples of that in the countryside. Lots if farmers do this..... Whether its for shooting or hunting. Hedges that have been left, woods left, copses planted etc etc. Its also helpful when you get given EU grants under the guise of good management schemes.

and a lot of these areas have hunt related names on maps

 

[emilylou]

Foxes self regulate their numbers. I'm from a farming background, farmers who know a thing or 2 plus respect wildlife leave Foxes alone and work with the balance of nature. One farmer I know said in all her years of sheep farming only one lamb was taken by a Fox and she entirely blames herself because she made hay too early that year and Foxes went hungry without high enough field mice numbers. Foxes also keep rabbit populations down which some farmers like. Fox hunting is about the thrill of the chase and pleasure of seeing a terrified animal torn to bits in agony.

Lambing and hay making happen at different times of year.
Are you here to pick a fight?

 

[luluphoto63]

In 2015 the BBC reported that the number of people registered with a hunt (trail, drag and blood hound) had increased from the point of the ban to a number around 45,000. Most hunts would accord that the number of people they have is not decreasing; though their country may be becoming more difficult to maintain for a number of reasons.

Many, many ordinary people follow legal hunts and that includes vets, nurses, doctors, teachers, bin-men, plumbers, shop workers etc etc. Top level eventers and other horse sport professionals who are held up as examples to aspire to within equestrianism (including Carl Hester) participate in hunting activities yet still the same old tropes about hunting and hunting people are marched out and often by people who clearly have no clue what the actual reality is. Hunting has adapted and will go on adapting. I hope so anyway. I am not bloodthirsty, desperate to kill foxes (at all), ignorant of the countryside, rude to my neighbours, liable to trespass, assault people, facilitate the killing of pets or upsetting of other people; I am fed up of hearing these untruths about hunting people. This current scandal which revolves around less than probably 2% (I haven't calculated it actually but have read all of both transcripts) of the words spoken is just another attack by a bunch of well funded vigilantes who have taken those words and phrases out of context and served them up on a plate for those that want such delicacies. Not widely reported are also the stress on the importance of hunts filing 'honest' reports and recording accidents/incidents etc, never getting involved in conflicts etc.

I totally get why people are easily stirred up by the news and I used to feel quite passionately anti-hunting BUT in this country we don't thankfully have a history of political and social change through vigilante action - which is widely and often violently deployed by the anti-hunt movement who are openly happy to admit to and plan for assualt, trespass and physical intimidation of both people and animals whilst never being prepared to show their faces or reveal their identity. I can't honestly imagine contributing to any reasonable debate on this forum about the subject of hunting though...

Anti's come from all sorts of backgrounds, nurses, vets, doctors, teachers, photographers to name some I have met. Those who are brave enough to try to defend our wildlife are threatened and intimidated by hunts and their hunt stewards (thugs of the highest order). Hunt trespass is out of control, time and time again my mother and neighbours have told the hunt they are not welcome but time again they trespass. There are so many examples of this on social media. The lid has been lifted on hunting, the police have stated they are reviewing their relationship to hunts, we have had enough of wildlife terrorism, hunting must end. Period.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Anti's come from all sorts of backgrounds, nurses, vets, doctors, teachers, photographers to name some I have met. Those who are brave enough to try to defend our wildlife are threatened and intimidated by hunts and their hunt stewards (thugs of the highest order). Hunt trespass is out of control, time and time again my mother and neighbours have told the hunt they are not welcome but time again they trespass. There are so many examples of this on social media. The lid has been lifted on hunting, the police have stated they are reviewing their relationship to hunts, we have had enough of wildlife terrorism, hunting must end. Period.

Yes such bravery to call a group of young 12yo girls murdering sl@gs and deliberately terrify horses on roads....
And sabs wrote the book on trespassing on private land so let's not go there ?

 

[Equine_Dream]

Lambing and hay making happen at different times of year.
Are you here to pick a fight?

Very switched on farmer to be bailing hay in February. The rest of them are just missing a trick ?‍?

 

[ycbm]

Very switched on farmer to be bailing hay in February. The rest of them are just missing a trick ?‍?

To be fair to our slightly crazed sounding new poster, hill farms lamb in April or May.

 

[luluphoto63]

I am sure you are not personally a well-funded vigilante! I was referring to LACS who are happy to support individuals and groups who are most certainly vigilantes and with no genuine animal rights agenda. The police and home office have rightly identified them as extremists who pose a significant danger.

to thwart the cruelty and criminality of fox hunters is a battle of light against darkness, to describe those who try to defend innocent creatures as extremists and vigilantes when they are up against hunting thugs of the highest order is simply disingenuous and fake.

 

[ycbm]

LP I am very anti fox hunting, but I don't think you are doing anyone any favours with the way you are writing.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Most hunts encourage Foxes to breed, often in articial earths, AE's. Bagged Foxes are used on hunts also.

Lies, bullshit and the inability to articulate as getting excited with ranting = troll

off to find the spray................

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

to thwart the cruelty and criminality of fox hunters is a battle of light against darkness, to describe those who try to defend innocent creatures as extremists and vigilantes when they are up against hunting thugs of the highest order is simply disingenuous and fake.

Evangelism isn't really applied here, whatever the subject matter

 

[luluphoto63]

I'm not going to wade in to the debate, except to observe that my experience of hunting people, privately, and in private online spaces, is that they are amongst the most polite, inclusive, welcoming and kind I have ever met. Left to their own devices they spend most of their time sharing soppy pictures of horses and doggies.

Those who think they are 'bloodthirsty toffs' should examine their own prejudices.

have you watched the hunting office webinars? Lord Mancroft et al so politely discussing ways to create "smokescreens" for illegal bloodthirsty Fox hunting.

 

[emilylou]

Anti's come from all sorts of backgrounds, nurses, vets, doctors, teachers, photographers to name some I have met.

As do those who hunt. If you care to read this whole thread there is a lot of knowledge to be gained about hunting, with those arguing on both sides with knowledgeable and considered views. What you will gain from reading it is the understanding that hunting is a multifaceted issue that is not simple and involves a large number of people with a variety of lifestyles and interests outside of hunting that goes far beyond whether it is right or wrong to kill a fox (which by the way, happens regardless of hunting by other methods).
It is ignorant to assume everyone who hunts is bloodthirsty just as it is ignorant to think that all sabs are terrorists.
I'm not sure what you hope to gain by brandishing your opinions on an internet forum, people here are generally open to discussion but everything you are saying has been heard before and is highly biased.

True fox hunting is illegal. Trail hunting and drag hunting are legal. Everything else is opinion.

 

[luluphoto63]

Lies, bullshit and the inability to articulate as getting excited with ranting = troll

off to find the spray................

Saying it doesn't make it so. Ae's are a fact, bagged foxes are a fact, anyone can do a little research to find this out themselves.

 

[BeckyFlowers]

have you watched the hunting office webinars? Lord Mancroft et al so politely discussing ways to create "smokescreens" for illegal bloodthirsty Fox hunting.

Yes, there's twelve pages discussing it before you posted! Have you read them all?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Saying it doesn't make it so. Ae's are a fact, bagged foxes are a fact, anyone can do a little research to find this out themselves.

The facts are where? Please substantiate your claim

 

[luluphoto63]

I’m more annoyed that the rabid hunt saboteurs have more to beat their ridiculous drum about animal cruelty ( despite the fact that they have caused deliberate harm to horse hound and man) to justify their abusive actions. I am neither pro nor anti hunt, no interest in it other than the galloping and jumping but I can do that in other ways, I just don’t like people who like who Use cruelty to justify more cruelty.

for the hunts that do hunt within the law with trail hunting and legal scents this may spell the end for them.

Saying something doesn't make it so, even when repeated ad nausium..there is no evidence that Anti's harm animals indeed there is huge concern over hunts treatment of hounds which live such short brutal lives, the terrier men's treatment of their dogs, blocked badger setts, horses ridden too hard, live stock scares and on and on.

 

[Michen]

Saying something doesn't make it so, even when repeated ad nausium..there is no evidence that Anti's harm animals indeed there is huge concern over hunts treatment of hounds which live such short brutal lives, the terrier men's treatment of their dogs, blocked badger setts, horses ridden too hard, live stock scares and on and on.

I'd say when antis were ramming their car up my horses hocks that is evidence.

 

[luluphoto63]

The pack I hunt with are a legitimate trail hunt (I know I know they ALL say that). I wouldn't personally attend if I thought for a second that they were in fact hunting fox. While I hold mixed views it wouldn't sit well with me personally. I also know many of the landowners who allow the hunt on their land would not do so if they caught a wiff of illegal hunting.
Yet we have been subject to harassment by antis frequently. Despite the complete lack of evidence of illegal hunting and the openness which our hunt operates. The sabs are not interested. Yes those hunts who illegally hunt foxes are clearly wrong but so are the sabs who cause distress and harm to one animal under the pretence of protecting another are no better. Sabs have no right to take the moral high ground in this regard.
There is most definitely right and wrong on both sides but the smugness and righteousness of sabs does get up my nose I'll admit, especially when they are no better than the illegal hunts.

What evidence do you have of Anti's harming animals? The hunt which you say is hunting legitimately, which one is it? Thanks.

 

[luluphoto63]

I'd say when antis were ramming their car up my horses hocks that is evidence.

Hunts have been lying for years, this is simply another.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

*plonk*

 

[ycbm]

Hunts have been lying for years, this is simply another.

I'm sorry , you don't join as a new poster and accuse a long standing and trusted member of lying about something she posted about last year.

Please apologise or take your ranting to another forum.

 

[luluphoto63]

Can I just say that not all sabs are brainless idiots. My nephew has been out monitoring and he swears to me that he is nothing but polite and professional and he takes it very seriously. He doesn't disrupt but he videos for evidence of illegal hunting. He's also shut Gates, has caught a loose, wandering horse on one occasion and has kept left behind Hounds company while waiting for the hunt to realise they haven't taken them all home - apparently that was a long night and he missed out on a DJ'ing set he was supposed to do.

What changed him was seeing a report on the news of a hunt man throwing a live fox cub into hounds, before he saw that he was a people are entitled to their hobbies kind of lad.

FYI Monitors and Sabs are caring compassionate people. Pro's have been lying about Fox hunting for years while spreading fake news in order to caste themselves in a better light, committing acts of cruelty and dressing it up as tradition.

 

[luluphoto63]

I'm sorry , you don't join as a new poster and accuse a long standing and trusted member of lying about something she posted about last year.

Please apologise or take your ranting to another forum.

Long standing or not, spreading fake information is lying and the leaked webinars prove hunts have been lying for years, or have you not seen them?

 

[luluphoto63]

The facts are where? Please substantiate your claim

just look!

 

[Equine_Dream]

Long standing or not, spreading fake information is lying and the leaked webinars prove hunts have been lying for years, or have you not seen them?

And how would you know Michen is lying? Were you there? What possible reason would Michen have to lie for?
As for my evidence of sabs harming animals I have seen it with my own two eyes sadly, but there are numerous videos online if you follow your own advice and "just look" ?

 

[emilylou]

just look!

references please.
At the moment the amount of evidence supplied to support your claims is the same as the amount Trump has to support his claim of winning the election

 

[luluphoto63]

Lambing and hay making happen at different times of year.
Are you here to pick a fight?

Not at all

 

[luluphoto63]

references please.
At the moment the amount of evidence supplied to support your claims is the same as the amount Trump has to support his claim of winning the election

You are on the internet. Google Artificial earths, fox hunts, bagged foxes etc. You know how.