Hunting is in a spot of bother

[ester]

I saw the BBC link because it was shared on their twitter. I was suprised at that at the time there weren't more anti hunt comments.

 

[w1bbler]

And that comment right there tells you everything you need to know about the entitled arrogant mindset of hunters. They think they have the right to go where they like and do what they like. Everyone needs to get out of the way and let them do what they want. I am very sorry to tell you but that sort of attitude is very out dated. Its the main reason that hunting will soon be completely banned. There simply is nothing else to say.

I've come up against the arrogant entitled attitude so many times.
One example, helping out at a trekking centre, loads of kids on lead reins on a narrow track. Suddenly from behind 2 women shout 'coming through' & barge through a our group to catch up with the hunt.
Another, I'm driving down a country lane with grass / mud either side, the hunt heading towards me & he's signalling me to pull onto the mud out of their way
I could go on, but this is just a couple of example of the arrogant attitude.
I've also asked local hunts for dates when they are in my area so I'm not out doing ride & lead when they might gallop past me. I can't have the dates because I might be a sab

 

[palo1]

I do sort of get your point.

However the fact that people are defending the huntsman (on here, where there is at least a modicum of intelligence) is pretty astonishing.

Yeah, well I do get that too; regardless of the strength of opinion of some posters there are also people who think that if the sabs were trespassing and the huntsman was going about his business (his job in fact) then he should be allowed to do that. For me, and most people, health and safety trumps that every time but the situation with sabs means that they will constantly interfere to a point where their actions are probably illegal/harassment etc. Nothing about hunting is simple. Even though the anti hunt lobby has a very loud voice, it is not the only one...

 

[cauda equina]

Re the arrogant attitude
I was out hacking; some foot followers told me the hunt were down a bridleway I was heading for, and that I should go a different way
I didn't

I've also been told to divert off a PROW for the convenience of a shoot but didn't do that either

 

[ester]

Nicer to make an informed decision about that though. There's lots of stuff on bridleways I'd be happy to know about beforehand.

 

[ester]

Yeah, well I do get that too; regardless of the strength of opinion of some posters there are also people who think that if the sabs were trespassing and the huntsman was going about his business (his job in fact) then he should be allowed to do that. For me, and most people, health and safety trumps that every time but the situation with sabs means that they will constantly interfere to a point where their actions are probably illegal/harassment etc. Nothing about hunting is simple. Even though the anti hunt lobby has a very loud voice, it is not the only one...

I'm wondering if the hunt POV is that if they never risked the safety of sabs ever they wouldn't be able to do anything, which is why they then get too close to the line of ok/not ok.

 

[sakura]

I saw the BBC link because it was shared on their twitter. I was suprised at that at the time there weren't more anti hunt comments.

I was also surprised by the comments. Most of them pro hunt and saying the sab "got what they deserve".

 

[Fred66]

I was also surprised by the comments. Most of them pro hunt and saying the sab "got what they deserve".

Not necessarily pro hunt, possibly fed up of people thinking that they have the right to deliberately interfere with other’s activities.
This thread is a point in case, I keep reading how arrogant the hunts are in respect of their attitude and I am sure there are instances where this is true, however in the main I would say that they try to be polite.
No comment on the arrogance of the sabs who believe they have the right to illegally disrupt the hunt going about its business.

 

[ycbm]

This thread is a point in case, I keep reading how arrogant the hunts are in respect of their attitude and I am sure there are instances where this is true, however in the main I would say that they try to be polite.
No comment on the arrogance of the sabs who believe they have the right to illegally disrupt the hunt going about its business.

That would be fine if the business was legal but I believe that the Cottesmore hunt fox.

I don't agree with sabs breaking the law either, but what puzzles me most is that ardent hunt supporters can't see what damage they are doing to their own sport with the PR they gift the sabs.
.

 

[ycbm]

No comment on the arrogance of the sabs who believe they have the right to illegally disrupt the hunt going about its business.

The irony in this is enormous. Have you any idea of the amount of disruption of people going about their business hunting on horseback causes in populated areas?
.

 

[sakura]

I think that hunting on horseback is so far removed from the thoughts and daily concerns of the majority of the public, it almost makes this thread obsolete. Most find it distasteful and unrelatable at best and are in favour of the ban remaining/strengthening. Posters complain about hunting being a class issue, but there is a major separation from those who are passionately trying to continue hunting on the back of a horse and the general public.

 

[sakura]

No comment on the arrogance of the sabs who believe they have the right to illegally disrupt the hunt going about its business.

To me, it comes back to the same point. If hunts were not illegally killing foxes, sabs wouldn't be there. It's cause and effect. People have a right to look out for, and document, suspected illegal activity.

 

[GoldenWillow]

The irony in this is enormous. Have you any idea of the amount of disruption of people going about their business hunting on horseback causes in populated areas?
.

I was just going to post exactly the same. I do have a lot of sympathy and understanding for people who hunt with a pack that are considerate and are hunting legally but the go anywhere do what I want attitude no matter what disruption or consequences their actions might have are the main reason our pack has lost support rather than the fact they are hunting illegally! Or as a farmer who's had stock driven into a river by the hunt which should not have been anywhere near the stock said they have no consideration for anyone else or their livelihoods.

If you are on the roads round here and see a 4x4 with cb aerial you drive so, so cautiously as round any blind bend you are likely to find a heap of vehicles parked any which way blocking or partially blocking the road, following one you creep along well behind as at any moment they are likely to swerve across the road with no warning or checking for traffic. And that's not mentioning deliberately parking on mown and looked after verges and so, so many other incidents I could go on for ages.

 

[Gallop_Away]

To me, it comes back to the same point. If hunts were not illegally killing foxes, sabs wouldn't be there. It's cause and effect. People have a right to look out for, and document, suspected illegal activity.

Again can we please stop pretending sabs do what they do because it is illegal. They do what they do because they disagree with hunting. If the ban was lifted tomorrow, saba wouldn't simply dissappear.

Now this is all well and good. They disagree with hunting foxes and that view is completely understandable. However, when a group of people feel entitled to force their view on others by intimidation, harassment, and other law breaking activities, then it becomes an issue.

Now you may feel that as hunting is illegal and these hunts are breaking the law, the sabs are justified. But what happens when they have finished with hunting and they turn their attention to other LEGAL activities? Fishing, shooting, horse racing, eventing, farming... where do you draw a line? People are entitled to their opinion but that does nor give them the right to force that opinion on others with illegal and forceful means!

Whilst I do not condone the actions of the huntsman, I have been on the receiving end of sabs abuse. They pick and pick and bully and bully relentlessly. Then someone snaps and they are right there to catch it on camera. Whilst the hunt should have more sense than to give the bullies the reaction they want, this isn't always easy when faced with a barrage of intimidation and harassment.

I will say it again, both huntsman and sabs show a complete recklessness in that video, to their own safety, the safety of others, and the poor horse!

 

[emilylou]

Re the arrogant attitude
I was out hacking; some foot followers told me the hunt were down a bridleway I was heading for, and that I should go a different way
I didn't

I've also been told to divert off a PROW for the convenience of a shoot but didn't do that either

in both these cases I think it was nice they informed you what was going on, advising you to go a different way would certainly be a safer option. Of course in both circumstances you can continue on the PROW as you choose, much like when there is a sign stating ‘bull in field’ but you are aware of the risk in doing so. I’m sure a lot of people would prefer to re-route knowing the hunt/shoot was ahead. I don’t think these examples show arrogance at all.

 

[Fred66]

The irony in this is enormous. Have you any idea of the amount of disruption of people going about their business hunting on horseback causes in populated areas?
.

How much disruption do football clubs cause when thousands of fans descend for a match ? Or cycling clubs when they have time trials or races? Or places of worship ?
We live in a country where we have to share the resources, this doesn’t mean those who are part of the disruption are arrogant, they have every right to be there.
Others need to learn tolerance, the arrogance comes when people who don’t have a legal right to be there either do it anyway with no attempt at an apology or restitution of damage.
And yes I would agree that some hunts do fall into the latter and therefore could reasonably be classed as arrogant in those instances, however the ones who are totally arrogant are the sabs.

 

[Red-1]

I've also asked local hunts for dates when they are in my area so I'm not out doing ride & lead when they might gallop past me. I can't have the dates because I might be a sab

This is what happened to us too. A man used to come round a day or two before the hunt came and post something through our letterbox. He would ring the bell and chat if we were in. It meant I could keep the horses in for safety, and not ride out.

Now, they won't say when they are in the area. We have never had sabs locally (same hunt has in other locations) so I doubt they could think a local has been feeding information. It simply means my horses are in danger, unless I keep them locked in twice a week through winter!

By the amount of times they pop up in people's livestock (including horses) fields, with no permission (as the owners complain on the local FB group), I can only presume that they either hunt fox or they are wildly incompetent in controlling hounds. They certainly hunt fox in other areas, as I tried hunting with them, expecting a trail. These are the ones who merely re-christened fox a 'ginger rabbit' and think it hilarious. I think I went out three times and saw fox being hunted (as in actually saw the fox being actively chased) every time.

 

[sakura]

Again can we please stop pretending sabs do what they do because it is illegal. They do what they do because they disagree with hunting. If the ban was lifted tomorrow, saba wouldn't simply dissappear.

Now this is all well and good. They disagree with hunting foxes and that view is completely understandable. However, when a group of people feel entitled to force their view on others by intimidation, harassment, and other law breaking activities, then it becomes an issue.

Now you may feel that as hunting is illegal and these hunts are breaking the law, the sabs are justified. But what happens when they have finished with hunting and they turn their attention to other LEGAL activities? Fishing, shooting, horse racing, eventing, farming... where do you draw a line? People are entitled to their opinion but that does nor give them the right to force that opinion on others with illegal and forceful means!

Whilst I do not condone the actions of the huntsman, I have been on the receiving end of sabs abuse. They pick and pick and bully and bully relentlessly. Then someone snaps and they are right there to catch it on camera. Whilst the hunt should have more sense than to give the bullies the reaction they want, this isn't always easy when faced with a barrage of intimidation and harassment.

I will say it again, both huntsman and sabs show a complete recklessness in that video, to their own safety, the safety of others, and the poor horse!

There's a lot of assumptions there.

 

[Gallop_Away]

There's a lot of assumptions there.

Perhaps, but very much based on my own experience of sabs.

 

[cauda equina]

in both these cases I think it was nice they informed you what was going on, advising you to go a different way would certainly be a safer option. Of course in both circumstances you can continue on the PROW as you choose, much like when there is a sign stating ‘bull in field’ but you are aware of the risk in doing so. I’m sure a lot of people would prefer to re-route knowing the hunt/shoot was ahead. I don’t think these examples show arrogance at all.

It was the telling me where I should go rather than just informing me that the hunt were there that got up my nose

 

[sakura]

Our relationship with animals, and how we use them for sport and food, is changing - as a whole. Whether people like it or not. Everyone has the right to protest anything they disagree with, within the limits of the law, without being put at risk of serious injury.

 

[Annagain]

Whilst I do not condone the actions of the huntsman, I have been on the receiving end of sabs abuse. They pick and pick and bully and bully relentlessly. Then someone snaps and they are right there to catch it on camera. Whilst the hunt should have more sense than to give the bullies the reaction they want, this isn't always easy when faced with a barrage of intimidation and harassment.

Surely the answer to that is those who are hunting could wear a camera and film the intimidation for their own protection. At least they'd have an accurate record to counter the sabs' claims or even evidence of the sabs' illegal activity to take to the police.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Our relationship with animals, and how we use them for sport and food, is changing - as a whole. Whether people like it or not. Everyone has the right to protest anything they disagree with, within the limits of the law, without being put at risk of serious injury.

I agree, the issue is that sabs do not stay within the limits of the law to make their views known.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Surely the answer to that is those who are hunting could wear a camera and film the intimidation for their own protection. At least they'd have an accurate record to counter the sabs' claims or even evidence of the sabs' illegal activity to take to the police.

This is a solution and if you look on social media there is a lot of evidence of poor behaviour from sabs, but the trouble is sabs are also very clever with their actions. The intimidation is subtly but consistent. Its a snide comment here, blocking a gateway there, putting a recording device in someone's face, trespassing on private land, another snide remark is thrown in, another gateway is blocked, tempers start to fray....

A single action does not seem so much on its own, but when it is added together with many other subtle acts of intimidation, the tension builds and then one person snaps. Then by coincidence there is a sab stood with a camera waiting to record the fallout.

 

[Millionwords]

This is a solution and if you look on social media there is a lot of evidence of poor behaviour from sabs, but the trouble is sabs are also very clever with their actions. The intimidation is subtly but consistent. Its a snide comment here, blocking a gateway there, putting a recording device in someone's face, trespassing on private land, another snide remark is thrown in, another gateway is blocked, tempers start to fray....

A single action does not seem so much on its own, but when it is added together with many other subtle acts of intimidation, the tension builds and then one person snaps. Then by coincidence there is a sab stood with a camera waiting to record the fallout.

The same can also be said in the reverse....but the only people hitting/trampling/driving into/slashing tyres on video record are the hunts.
If the sabs violence were so rife, then you'd think hunts would take more steps to record it and make it visible. Body cams are not expensive any longer and wouldn't be in the wag when riding. Nor helmet cameras.

 

[sakura]

I agree, the issue is that sabs do not stay within the limits of the law to make their views known.

The hunts are also not staying within the law

 

[ycbm]

Again can we please stop pretending sabs do what they do because it is illegal. They do what they do because they disagree with hunting. If the ban was lifted tomorrow, saba wouldn't simply dissappear.

And yet drag hunts were only sabbed by mistake and the Cheshire Hunt stopped being stabbed when it went legit.

They will go for shooting, not drag hunting, IMO.
.

 

[Gallop_Away]

The same can also be said in the reverse....but the only people hitting/trampling/driving into/slashing tyres on video record are the hunts.
If the sabs violence were so rife, then you'd think hunts would take more steps to record it and make it visible. Body cams are not expensive any longer and wouldn't be in the wag when riding. Nor helmet cameras.

Again there IS plenty of evidence online of violence from sabs.

The hunts are also not staying within the law

Which I have clearly stated but as my gran would say, two wrongs don't make a right. And once they have finished with hunting, I think it's enviable they will turn their attention elsewhere to other LEGAL activities. Then what? People are entitled to hold an opinion and to an extent make their opinion known. However they do not have the right to force that opinion on others with illegal and sometimes violent means.

 

[Gallop_Away]

And yet drag hunts were only sabbed by mistake and the Cheshire Hunt stopped being stabbed when it went legit.

They will go for shooting, not drag hunting, IMO.
.

I don't believe I mentioned drag hunting in my post ycbm.

But what happens when they have finished with hunting and they turn their attention to other LEGAL activities? Fishing, shooting, horse racing, eventing, farming... where do you draw a line?

My point was that, in my opinion, sabs do not simply sab hunts because they are illegal but rather their views on animal rights, and once they have finished with hunting, they will turn their attention on other legal activities.

 

[sakura]

Which I have clearly stated but as my gran would say, two wrongs don't make a right. And once they have finished with hunting, I think it's enviable they will turn their attention elsewhere to other LEGAL activities. Then what? People are entitled to hold an opinion and to an extent make their opinion known. However they do not have the right to force that opinion on others with illegal and sometimes violent means.

It's hypothetical. People sab hunting for their own reasons and those reasons, I'm sure, will influence what they decide to do once trail hunting is banned.