Hunting is in a spot of bother

[utter-nutter]

This is why the Hunting Act has been such a disaster - either ban it or not, rather than creating such a stupid and unworkable act.

What worries me more is once hunting is banned properly, the antis will then move onto racing, shooting and fishing, and the impact on the rural economy will be devastating, with the country way of life as we know it becoming extinct. Country estates will no longer be viable and more and more land will be sold off for housing, with livestock farmers being increasingly demonised.

I also find it sad that a publication called the 'Horse and Hound' (the clue is in the name) has more activity on the forum from anti's than pro's. I wonder how many people on this forum enjoy 'fun rides' as the majority will disappear as more often than not organised by local packs?

Yes I do hunt and am not a 'blood thirsty toff' - I have a hairy cob, am an animal lover and make a living caring for people with dementia.

I feel very saddened by the current situation, as a few idiots at the MFHA could have just ruined things for the packs that have tried to abide by the law.

^ agree 100% with this.... once they've done 'finishing off' hunting, i can see other rural sports getting targeted....surely importing and raising 10000's of pheasants purely to be shot is more 'barbaric' and unethical.....just an opinion

 

[paddy555]

^ agree 100% with this.... once they've done 'finishing off' hunting, i can see other rural sports getting targeted....surely importing and raising 10000's of pheasants purely to be shot is more 'barbaric' and unethical.....just an opinion

yes please, we can only be hopeful. no shooting would make my Saturdays.

 

[monkeymad]

I can remember seeing a clip on the BBC years ago when a I was a child, where a hunt had been filmed and one of the hunt members was holding a fox by the tail and he threw it into the pack of hounds, whilst the rest of the hunt clapped. I still see that as a turning point in my life, when I realised that some people actually found pleasure in causing other living creatures fear and pain. I will be happy to see an end to this outdated tradition.

 

[ycbm]

Shooting has to go, eventually. Breeding tens of thousands of birds to be shot for the pleasure of it, when many will be alive when they hit the floor, retrieved by a dog and then have their necks broken to finish them off. In any other context that would be a criminal offence.
.

 

[paddi22]

Shooting has to go, eventually. Breeding tens of thousands of birds to be shot for the pleasure of it, when many will be alive when they hit the floor, retrieved by a dog and then have their necks broken to finish them off. In any other context that would be a criminal offence.
.

yep it seems crazy to allow it just because it's gentrified. if it was a group of teenagers on a housing estate with guns setting their dogs on chickens or the like, there would be uproar.

 

[minesadouble]

Oh well just to tip the balance we have plenty lads from council estates who regularly drive through our fences to lamp in our fields. The Police aren't interested despite the fact the perpetrators are hardly 'gentry'.

 

[minesadouble]

Oh, they did show a little bit of interest a couple of weeks ago when a bloke hit one of their dogs which was running on the public highway at 12.30 am. The driver was then dragged out of his car, beaten and left with a broken jaw.

The police then had the audacity to knock on our door and ask if we had any idea who it might be 'errrrr probably one of the people we gave up calling you about as you had absolutely zero interest' was my answer.

 

[rextherobber]

Shooting has to go, eventually. Breeding tens of thousands of birds to be shot for the pleasure of it, when many will be alive when they hit the floor, retrieved by a dog and then have their necks broken to finish them off. In any other context that would be a criminal offence.
.

This. It's the huge number of injured birds which are just left to die a slow lingering death, which is so upsetting. When I was a child, there was always concerted efforts made to do as you, say, mop up the injured, but these days it seems more a case of just get off to the next drive and no thought given to any that aren't in the bag. A previous poster said they were worried if hunting was banned, "the antis" would move on to shooting, fishing etc. leading to basically the downfall of country estates. This need not be a bad thing, I think as with all things, change has happen, and the way estates and the countryside is used has to change with the times. (And it need not be used for housing, how about bike tracks and dog exercise fields and country trails... And surely hunts aren't the only people capable of organising a fun ride? Particularly as the land they are welcomed on seems to be ever shrinking...

 

[utter-nutter]

if many of these 'rural sports' were to go.. i could see the countryside and farms begun to be run in a more commercial like way, with farmers farming up headland and woodland that would be used as game cover. Obviously this doesn't apply to the giant commercial shoots that put many 10000 birds down, which obviously do run as a business, but more towards the small farm shoots that have a few days a each season and charge guns a little bit to cover costs. many farms try to make up profits with days shooting/fishing ect, i.e. things that work alongside farming, making the most of the land they have. Not always feasible to put in a bike track/dog walking field that can only be used in good ground conditions without livestock in the field!

 

[utter-nutter]

Sorry i don't mean to rant, I've just seen so many 'farmer' friends and friends of friends struggling now more than ever, these are good honest people, and against popular opinion not all of them are 'pro hunt', pro tory, definelty not 'Toffs'! everyone just loves to put people in a box! Whilst i am 'for' hunting..i totally understand whilst people are against it and do not at all condemn them for their own view, I'm not sure people are aware of the financial impact rural sports have on some peoples livelihoods and how for others it is a way of life. Personally think there are far worse things happening in world that peoples energy and money should be spent on! (HS2 for a start)

 

[utter-nutter]

This. It's the huge number of injured birds which are just left to die a slow lingering death, which is so upsetting. When I was a child, there was always concerted efforts made to do as you, say, mop up the injured, but these days it seems more a case of just get off to the next drive and no thought given to any that aren't in the bag. A previous poster said they were worried if hunting was banned, "the antis" would move on to shooting, fishing etc. leading to basically the downfall of country estates. This need not be a bad thing, I think as with all things, change has happen, and the way estates and the countryside is used has to change with the times. (And it need not be used for housing, how about bike tracks and dog exercise fields and country trails... And surely hunts aren't the only people capable of organising a fun ride? Particularly as the land they are welcomed on seems to be ever shrinking...

For the record the few shoots I've been on, every bird that has come down is collected whether its easy to find or not! Thankful i had a good dog. Obviously I cannot speak for every shoot

 

[rextherobber]

if many of these 'rural sports' were to go.. i could see the countryside and farms begun to be run in a more commercial like way, with farmers farming up headland and woodland that would be used as game cover. Obviously this doesn't apply to the giant commercial shoots that put many 10000 birds down, which obviously do run as a business, but more towards the small farm shoots that have a few days a each season and charge guns a little bit to cover costs. many farms try to make up profits with days shooting/fishing ect, i.e. things that work alongside farming, making the most of the land they have. Not always feasible to put in a bike track/dog walking field that can only be used in good ground conditions without livestock in the field!

Farms and estates are already run in a commercial way, they have to be! (I was surprised that the pheasants were started this year, it seemed a huge gamble with the pandemic, and whether it pays off remains to be seen). Agree farmers are struggling, the weather alone has been a trail for the last couple of years. Diversification is the way forward - who is to say in 20-30 years time we will be eating the amount of meat we are at the moment, climate change will play a part no doubt in the crops that are grown etc. It is an inescapable fact that people have more leisure time these days, and more people have transport, the countryside has be change to accommodate the fact that, like it or not, the world is changing.
But this is all a bit off topic!

 

[utter-nutter]

Farms and estates are already run in a commercial way, they have to be! (I was surprised that the pheasants were started this year, it seemed a huge gamble with the pandemic, and whether it pays off remains to be seen). Agree farmers are struggling, the weather alone has been a trail for the last couple of years. Diversification is the way forward - who is to say in 20-30 years time we will be eating the amount of meat we are at the moment, climate change will play a part no doubt in the crops that are grown etc. It is an inescapable fact that people have more leisure time these days, and more people have transport, the countryside has be change to accommodate the fact that, like it or not, the world is changing.
But this is all a bit off topic!

sorry should have been clearer, meant the smaller type farms, whose profit margins are a lot less and have less of a financial 'cushion' that larger landowners might have. But agree with you, diversification is key, and agree our eating habits need to change! (watch david attenbough documentary on netflix if of interest) the countryside needs to change, and people both urban and rural need to change with it!

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

The only type of "hunting" I have personally engaged with and actively participated in is falconry and hawking. Anything caught by the birds is then used to feed them with. Hunting any animal originated from a need to feed ourselves and animals...to do it for "fun" blows my brains. There is a certain mentality attached to this that I simply cannot relate to on any level.

 

[blitznbobs]

Shooting has to go, eventually. Breeding tens of thousands of birds to be shot for the pleasure of it, when many will be alive when they hit the floor, retrieved by a dog and then have their necks broken to finish them off. In any other context that would be a criminal offence.
.

Isn’t shooting the ultimate free range though? I’d rather commercial chicken farming went than shooting

 

[Tiddlypom]

Oh well just to tip the balance we have plenty lads from council estates who regularly drive through our fences to lamp in our fields. The Police aren't interested despite the fact the perpetrators are hardly 'gentry'.

We’ve got a Police Rural Crime Team now, and they are very on the ball about lamping etc. It’s only a small team, but they do get themselves about the whole county.

This is a real step forward for us country bumpkins.

 

[luckyoldme]

Oh well just to tip the balance we have plenty lads from council estates who regularly drive through our fences to lamp in our fields. The Police aren't interested despite the fact the perpetrators are hardly 'gentry'.

That'll be those pesky little thugs from council estates again.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Another piece about the current hunting furore on last nights New at 10. It’s about 3 1/2 minutes long, so not just a snippet.
The issue has now been raised in Parliament.

https://fb.watch/20pRsZoQfu/

I know this clip is from a sab source, and I certainly don’t believe everything they post, but they are currently winning the social media battle by a country mile.

 

[ycbm]

Isn’t shooting the ultimate free range though? I’d rather commercial chicken farming went than shooting

The birds aren't all eaten on the big commercial shoots, BB. It used to be fairly easy for antis to find heaps of dumped birds but they are removed these days. Not many restaurants will serve a bird that might land it with compensation for remedial dentistry and most modern diners wouldn't order it with a disclaimer for pellets being in it.

And none of the commercial chicken farms would be allowed to breed for the meat market if the method of death was to pepper them with shot, fetch the ones still alive with a dog and wring their necks.

I respect the activity is legal and makes a big contribution to the rural economy. I'm not calling for a ban any time soon, but it must eventually go, it's completely unethical judged by modern animal welfare law.

FWIW fishing for sport is no better. I think the two will go at the same time. I
This isn't a class thing.

 

[suebou]

Sorry ycbm, much of what you write is a generalisation. Our commercial shoot 10,000 pheasant, 5000 partridge, deer stalking, ducks...sends all meat to game dealers, unless wanted by the guns, keepers etc. Great care is taken to pick every bird, (I know, I’m doing it!) I know the origin and provenance of every bit of meat we eat over the winter season, which is important to me. It is incredibly healthy meat as well. This thread reinforces my family’s belief that our way of life is incredibly threatened and that people will not be happy until we are all eating highly processed meat from ‘factory ‘ farms.

 

[ycbm]

I'm glad your birds are sold, SB, but that doesn't make the way they die acceptable. I wouldn't feel that if you could guarantee a clean kill. But your activity is causing a prolonged death to many birds, a death which would be a criminal offence if it wasn't being done as part of a shoot.

Sadly for you, and I do mean that, I think your family needs to plan for a future where mass shooting of birds bred to be shot as sport will not be legal.
.

 

[emilylou]

The birds aren't all eaten on the big commercial shoots, BB. It used to be fairly easy for antis to find heaps of dumped birds but they are removed these days. Not many restaurants will serve a bird that might land it with compensation for remedial dentistry and most modern diners wouldn't order it with a disclaimer for pellets being in it.

And none of the commercial chicken farms would be allowed to breed for the meat market if the method of death was to pepper them with shot, fetch the ones still alive with a dog and wring their necks.

I respect the activity is legal and makes a big contribution to the rural economy. I'm not calling for a ban any time soon, but it must eventually go, it's completely unethical judged by modern animal welfare law.

FWIW fishing for sport is no better. I think the two will go at the same time. I
This isn't a class thing.

If we are talking about the future of meat I don't know what you propose we all end up eating in the future? I am vegetarian so its not relevant to me, but personally I would much prefer to see an uptake of people eating wild raised and shot birds/large game, meaning that woodlands and moors would be considered an asset for a viable food source thus desired and protected spaces, and the increasing protection of our rivers for fisheries, allowing the whole ecosystem to thrive and in turn provide a viable food source for people.

The main reason for catch and return fishing is that there is not enough stock to allow fishermen to take it, I am sure they would prefer to catch and eat it, if stocks were good enough. I am sure fishermen would invest and support increasing protections of our rivers to have more liberty to fish, meaning better environmental standards, local wild food and (hopefully) less polluting chicken farms.

Equally, I am much more tempted to eat a bird that has been raised truly free range, as game birds are, and has had the opportunity to live freely and exercise all natural behaviors to suffer only one bad day than I ever would be to eat any chicken raised in a shed without daylight.
I refuse to accept the status quo is the way forwards, hunting, shooting and fishing are from a time where people worked in harmony with the land and managed natural environments in a sustainable way and the way we are going currently is not working. We cannot continuously increase our food production, chop down trees and build houses. At some point it has to end and I really do think country sports have a valid place in a future that values the environment.

 

[paddi22]

We do design work for a large company that supplies canteen food to offices worldwide at a high level and good quality. they are always predicting future trends for food so they can cater to what people want , and all their stuff coming down the line is based up a lot of vegan, vegetarian and 'science foods' like lab grown meat. the surveys they do of the younger generation is showing a massive move away from meat. it's just a different generation, they didn't grow up with the 'meat and two veg' my generation did. they regularly deliveroo ethnic foods, many of which don't even need meat due to the spices and flavour. they have a different awareness of food production, ethics in food and a wider taste palette.

 

[Nudibranch]

I'm not going to wade in to the debate, except to observe that my experience of hunting people, privately, and in private online spaces, is that they are amongst the most polite, inclusive, welcoming and kind I have ever met. Left to their own devices they spend most of their time sharing soppy pictures of horses and doggies.

Those who think they are 'bloodthirsty toffs' should examine their own prejudices.

Bloodthirsty toffs maybe not. But inclusive, welcoming and kind? Absolutely not round here. That is an observation made as a hunt guest by the way and not just idle speculation.

 

[southerncomfort]

We’ve got a Police Rural Crime Team now, and they are very on the ball about lamping etc. It’s only a small team, but they do get themselves about the whole county.

This is a real step forward for us country bumpkins.

Same here. A couple of officers visited us to talk to us about rural crime. They gave us an emergency number to call re: lamping/hare coursing, and an email address to report any other suspicious activity.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Sorry to have to state the obvious here but what do you think the hunt is doing if not being happy to scare or upset animals? Pretty sure the fox is fairly scared and upset when its running for its life from a pack of hounds followed by a large group on horseback!

No one is saying any different but a tad hypocritical of self proclaimed devoted "animal lovers" who harass and intimidate those they accuse of harming animals (in many cases with no proof) only to do the same themselves. I've witnessed these people deliberately try and spook horses on slippery roads, screaming in terrified horses faces, kicking out at hounds....all in the name of animal welfare apparently.

I hold total respect for the opinion of those who disagree with hunting foxes. I hold no respect for these masked terrorists, as my experience has taught me their actions are nothing to do with the protection of animals.

 

[Michen]

No one is saying any different but a tad hypocritical of self proclaimed devoted "animal lovers" who harass and intimidate those they accuse of harming animals (in many cases with no proof) only to do the same themselves. I've witnessed these people deliberately try and spook horses on slippery roads, screaming in terrified horses faces, kicking out at hounds....all in the name of animal welfare apparently.

I hold total respect for the opinion of those who disagree with hunting foxes. I hold no respect for these masked terrorists, as my experience has taught me their actions are nothing to do with the protection of animals.

Thanks, I was half asleep to write a sensible reply last night.

Actually my horse was fine, but I found them very intimidating and scarey. I'd go as far to say as I felt more scared by them and on that road in that moment than being mugged in Nicaragua!

Horribly agressive.

 

[rabatsa]

A while ago there were a bunch of "antis" harrassing the local hunt, they had parked their minibus in someones entrance lane. He went to talk to them about moving it and discovered that they were all students being paid £20 for the day. He asked if they would go beating the following Saturday for £25 and yes, every single one of them abandoned being hunt sabs and became beaters for the winter.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I’m more annoyed that the rabid hunt saboteurs have more to beat their ridiculous drum about animal cruelty ( despite the fact that they have caused deliberate harm to horse hound and man) to justify their abusive actions. I am neither pro nor anti hunt, no interest in it other than the galloping and jumping but I can do that in other ways, I just don’t like people who like who Use cruelty to justify more cruelty.

for the hunts that do hunt within the law with trail hunting and legal scents this may spell the end for them.

 

[RHM]

Isn’t shooting the ultimate free range though? I’d rather commercial chicken farming went than shooting

Exactly! I am a shit vegetarian in that 99% of the time I don’t eat meat but when the local estates marksman cull some deer I will eat that. Surely that should be what we are aiming for in meat production? Completely free range, and killed by a professional while they are in their own environment?! I have no qualms with meat eating at all but the way animals are raised and treated to get to our plates is completely barbaric most of the time.