Hypermobile horse and what to do

[Caol Ila]

In the photo you've postd, he looks okay. And three year olds are gangly, weird looking creatures anyway.

Never had to deal with the goofy boy horse thing. Hermosa was a ditzy teenager as 3yo, though. I sure don't miss that. Like I said in maya's thread, I was a few breaths away from selling her 'cause I hate that sh1t. But luckily it was just a phase.

As hard as it is, just go with it, keep the work light, let him muscle up. Even the most perfectly conformed horse can f*09ck itself.

There's been a lot out there (and on this forum) about hypermobility and DSLD, and some horses (like BBP) have had serious health issues as a result of it, but I bet there are many, many horses out there with kind of long, springy pasterns who have long, or at least average, working lives, and you never hear about it, because it's boring. No one writes about the good stuff. Hacked today. Nothing happened. Blah, blah, blah. I do think that kind of availability heuristic can cause one's brain to spiral very easily. I mean, sure, be aware and strengthen the horse (and you are!) but I'd advise to not spin out about it, not yet!

 

[SEL]

Not going to lie, I was expecting much worse than that photo! I’d crack on in as much as you do with a 3 year old and not die on the hill before you’re there!

Me too. I was expecting more of a BBP presentation

The disturbing thing is that I've seen that much drop and/or fetlocks contacting the surface in dressage horses that are still out competing.

A friend is the bodyworker for some top level dressage horses. A couple are pretty bad IMO but they work hard to keep their bodies in shape - she was the lady who advised me that time off isn't helpful.

 

[Tiddlypom]

There were more photos but the OP has felt that she had to take them down.

 

[BBP]

Me too. I was expecting more of a BBP presentation


A friend is the bodyworker for some top level dressage horses. A couple are pretty bad IMO but they work hard to keep their bodies in shape - she was the lady who advised me that time off isn't helpful.

I think that photo was posted to show illustrate what she was saying about him throwing his front legs where we were talking about being able to stabilise the limb from the shoulder and thoracic sling. They don’t show the extension of the fetlock in that phase of the trot.

 

[SEL]

There were more photos but the OP has felt that she had to take them down.

That's a shame - I think this is a valuable thread so it would be horrible if it got nasty.

 

[ihatework]

I can’t see anywhere it’s got even close to nasty

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Me too. I was expecting more of a BBP presentation


A friend is the bodyworker for some top level dressage horses. A couple are pretty bad IMO but they work hard to keep their bodies in shape - she was the lady who advised me that time off isn't helpful.

You can't truly see it in that phase of the trot though.

There were more photos but the OP has felt that she had to take them down.

I received 3 messages as a result of those photos. 1 was blunt, but fine. 2 were just downright nasty. I didn't feel like dealing with more, tbh.

I think that photo was posted to show illustrate what she was saying about him throwing his front legs where we were talking about being able to stabilise the limb from the shoulder and thoracic sling. They don’t show the extension of the fetlock in that phase of the trot.

This!

I am sort of baffled by people saying "that wasn't so bad" because that photo doesn't illustrate the fetlock dropping phase of the trot. Granted, I appreciate their positivity.

I can’t see anywhere it’s got even close to nasty

It hasn't on the thread! As I said elsewhere, it was via messages. I've just deleted them because I can't be arsed to deal with...well...arses!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It was this photo:



At this point, people can say what they want and be however they want to be. If I get messages I'll delete them. If I want to, I can leave. I'm not here against my will.

The thing is I am fine with advice and opinions, but accusations of abuse, negligence, being an idiot, and bad words about his breeder... I just don't care anymore.

 

[maya2008]

What does your vet say? Physio?

As a human, I would wrap a joint that over extended like that. No idea if it is recommended for a horse. The wrap doesn’t take the strain so much as make the animal (in my case human) aware of the over extension and help them know when is too much pressure. Hypermobile joints don’t tell you when you’re extending too much - so you just keep pushing and they just keep extending…but you can learn to apply less pressure so they don’t go so far.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I received 3 messages as a result of those photos. 1 was blunt, but fine. 2 were just downright nasty. I didn't feel like dealing with more, tbh.

Crikey, I’m sorry to hear that CC .

 

[CanteringCarrot]

What does your vet say? Physio?

As a human, I would wrap a joint that over extended like that. No idea if it is recommended for a horse. The wrap doesn’t take the strain so much as make the animal (in my case human) aware of the over extension and help them know when is too much pressure. Hypermobile joints don’t tell you when you’re extending too much - so you just keep pushing and they just keep extending…but you can learn to apply less pressure so they don’t go so far.

My vet is completely not concerned. He said that the horse has nice movement that I should enjoy and it's not DSLD/ESPA. He's basically in the camp of just enjoy the horse that you've got. I asked about supplements, proactive things, etc. He just said he has a good diet, and don't ride like an idiot, basically he can be a bit of an odd one though and it's interesting what concerns him and what doesn't sometimes.


So, we don't have physio's here. The chiro didn't say much, and there weren't any major adjustments to make. The other "bodyworker" just does massage, so it's rather superficial.

Wraps and/or boots don't provide support on a horse. I know that shoes can possibly slightly minimize the drop/foot sinking into rooting if it's a shoe with a long "trailer" to it. My thing is, if you provide "support" and that support is gone (no wraps in the field, or loses a shoe and farrier can't come right away, or has a hooley without the shoe), does it actually make the horse more prone to injury because the body became reliant on that "alteration" whatever it may be? I don't know if that's a legit theory or not. I just plan to keep a good trim on him.

 

[maya2008]

My vet is completely not concerned. He said that the horse has nice movement that I should enjoy and it's not DSLD/ESPA. He's basically in the camp of just enjoy the horse that you've got. I asked about supplements, proactive things, etc. He just said he has a good diet, and don't ride like an idiot, basically

So, we don't have physio's here. The chiro didn't say much, and there weren't any major adjustments to make. The other "bodyworker" just does massage, so it's rather superficial.

Wraps and/or boots don't provide support on a horse. I know that shoes can possibly slightly minimize the drop/foot sinking into rooting if it's a shoe with a long "trailer" to it. My thing is, if you provide "support" and that support is gone (no wraps in the field, or loses a shoe and farrier can't come right away, or has a hooley without the shoe), does it actually make the horse more prone to injury because the body became reliant on that "alteration" whatever it may be? I don't know if that's a legit theory or not. I just plan to keep a good trim on him.

Wraps don’t wildly support me either, but they tighten slightly if I am overextending and the tightness is irritating, so it makes me aware and I stop piling the pressure on. If that makes any sense at all.

I’m with enjoy what you have. We have one whose hips are not quite right due to too many babies too young. We’re not going to push her, but she enjoys her work and it strengthens her, so she hacks and schools and we accept her working life won’t perhaps be as long as another pony’s might be.

 

[TPO]

You're nicer than me (possibly not saying much!!), I'd be outing them.

Not sure what emboldened folk to send abuse over PM to someone. I've been here sine 2004 and only had 2 bad PMs. One about a horse I lost (& am still devastated about 14.5yrs later) and one "concerned" about my dog in my care. Auda City, Population those barstewards.

I know rock all about hypermobility. The photo that was left looked fine to me but I can see why you're asking questions based on the other two.

You're not daft and are clearly tuned into your horse and any changes. I'd say keep on keeping on. You currently have a sound and able horse so keep doing what you're doing eith an eye to continual strengthening and condition works. Undoubtedly what you'd be doing anyway

Sorry you've posted looking for help and had PMs from twunts

 

[CanteringCarrot]

You're nicer than me (possibly not saying much!!), I'd be outing them.

Not sure what emboldened folk to send abuse over PM to someone. I've been here sine 2004 and only had 2 bad PMs. One about a horse I lost (& am still devastated about 14.5yrs later) and one "concerned" about my dog in my care. Auda City, Population those barstewards.

I know rock all about hypermobility. The photo that was left looked fine to me but I can see why you're asking questions based on the other two.

You're not daft and are clearly tuned into your horse and any changes. I'd say keep on keeping on. You currently have a sound and able horse so keep doing what you're doing eith an eye to continual strengthening and condition works. Undoubtedly what you'd be doing anyway

Sorry you've posted looking for help and had PMs from twunts

I've not had any other messages of that sort before, that I can think of. I don't know why this sent people off!

Anyway, I'm just going to try to keep improving other parts of his body in an effort to help the shite parts, really.

 

[SEL]

I've not had any other messages of that sort before, that I can think of. I don't know why this sent people off!

Anyway, I'm just going to try to keep improving other parts of his body in an effort to help the shite parts, really.

At one point I was going to post photos of mine but there's too much leg hair to get the over extension off a video. Relieved I didn't now!

Mine has got ouchy over extending, but that's happened when adrenaline took over and his brain didn't click in. I have an excellent physio and she told me if I'm worried he's worked or played a bit too hard then get an anti inflammatory into him. I generally do a dose of devil's claw. Vet was happy with that.

Both Vet and physio stressed keeping him fit and strong and despite my wobbles they've been right. It may all come crashing down at somepoint but then horses have 1001 ways to self harm anyway.

I've seen suspensories collapse on a 5yo part bred Shire & it was obvious at walk there was a serious issue. She'd started to nap and rear too so riding was obviously associated with pain - she was PTS

 

[ihatework]

What the hell is wrong with people to be sending nasty PMs, at all, let alone something there is no need to be nasty about.

The joint extension isn’t great but it is what it is. You physically cannot change it. In your words you have a sound happy horse enjoying work. Your vet also isn’t having kittens. He is young, and although I personally wouldn’t be continuing to work a 3yo over winter, that is besides the point. You are happy to and plenty of 3yo successfully do prolonged light work to no detriment, so work him mindfully, enjoy the journey and stop giving yourself a nervous breakdown over something that isn’t an issue at present.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

At one point I was going to post photos of mine but there's too much leg hair to get the over extension off a video. Relieved I didn't now!

Mine has got ouchy over extending, but that's happened when adrenaline took over and his brain didn't click in. I have an excellent physio and she told me if I'm worried he's worked or played a bit too hard then get an anti inflammatory into him. I generally do a dose of devil's claw. Vet was happy with that.

Both Vet and physio stressed keeping him fit and strong and despite my wobbles they've been right. It may all come crashing down at somepoint but then horses have 1001 ways to self harm anyway.

I've seen suspensories collapse on a 5yo part bred Shire & it was obvious at walk there was a serious issue. She'd started to nap and rear too so riding was obviously associated with pain - she was PTS

For whatever reason(s) I've seen a lot of drop in all legs in Cobs and Draft horses. I don't know why? For the most part, both are traditionally pulling and/or cart horses, right? So soft pasterns wouldn't be desirable there, I'd think? I see it a lot in Friesian horses too. I'm not sure where it comes from, but it's quite common.

It does make sense to keep them fit. I've seen mine gallop around like an absolute loon and be no worse for the wear, to the naked eye, anyway.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

What the hell is wrong with people to be sending nasty PMs, at all, let alone something there is no need to be nasty about.

The joint extension isn’t great but it is what it is. You physically cannot change it. In your words you have a sound happy horse enjoying work. Your vet also isn’t having kittens. He is young, and although I personally wouldn’t be continuing to work a 3yo over winter, that is besides the point. You are happy to and plenty of 3yo successfully do prolonged light work to no detriment, so work him mindfully, enjoy the journey and stop giving yourself a nervous breakdown over something that isn’t an issue at present.

Yeah, that makes sense. It's just that whenever he may hesitate or do something, I'm going to wonder...but sometimes green horses just are green horses.

I've read of benefits to keep young horses slowly but steadily ticking over, so tend to stick with that. I've always done this with my (healthy) young horses with no ill result. I don't think not working them over winter does them "bad" per say, but if a carefully constructed fitness program could be of more benefit, than I'll choose that.

I did consider turning him away, but that's mostly because I hate winter