Hypermobility, isolating core and riding- Feeling fed up!

[Fruitcake]

I have hypermobility but, aside from a bit of pain, am able to function normally. I know some people have much worse issues than me so I hate myself for complaining about this but I suppose I’m just feeling a bit sorry for myself and wanted some experiences from others.

My riding, at the moment, is just awful. My hips are tight, my back is tight and painful and I’m really struggling to loosen up and get the horse forward, poor thing. When I try to let my joints go, I end up with a trot-halt or losing the canter etc as I seem to let my core go at the same time! I think, although I have OK core strength, I must be incapable of isolating it from my muscles.

I go for regular Osteopath appointments as my pelvis rotates and I end up completely twisted. Today, when I voiced frustration at how I end up continually rotated, he told me, as I was very hypermobile, it was just the way it was. I’m just feeling fed up and like, no matter how hard I try (I even try not to try as that stiffens my muscles!), it just seems like I’ll never be the rider I want to be.

Sorry for the moan. Just wondered if anyone is in a similar boat and, if so, if you’ve found anything to help.

 

[spike123]

I don't know if you're on facebook but there's a group on there called Hypermobile horseriders which is probably a good place to ask the question. I'm hypermobile as well but currently not riding as waiting for a spinal operation.

 

[ester]

I don't know if you get it the same but with regards to core, my proper core definitely needs some encouragement. Essentially what happens to me is that I recruit all sorts of muscles to join in, because apparently they think they are better at it! It was pointed out recently that it even messes up my breathing because actually I am 'core tight' particularly round my pelvis are but also moving up all the time I am forced to chest breathe. I have a twist all the way up my body.

Riding has generally not been too bad for me, other than my left leg being shorter than my right, probably due to the problem I mention below, but the sort of movement from riding is quite helpful. I do find if I am not riding much whatever else I am doing it becomes tricky (and I am not riding at all atm)

I am currently throwing money at the situation to see if I can get it as good as can me... particularly as I get a lot of left buttock pain (we think that is because of the top of the hamstring grabbing now). So I am doing a lot of weights with a PT who is also pilates and sports therapist trained (so if it is bad we can start with a bit of treatment first) so really picky about the biomechanics, he has quite a lot of physically problematic people on his books.
In addition I have had a few sessions with a hypermobility specialist physio, he is proper geek and has been trying to isolate the main issues and then give me very specific things to do.
So far with this I have only been really sore once, and that was after a pilates session when we spent a lot of time with both legs up... and that pointed out the probable hamstring issue.


I do feel better if I see a chiro/physio etc. BUT I am very easy to adjust and get straight but don't stay there so it is minimal benefit longer term. It seems to affect people in different ways, I have had this specific point of Glute pain for 20 years, and am not bendy everywhere, but have friends who are much bendier than me but have no real issues.

 

[Lintel]

I have hypermobility and have found it super tough on my hips after a few months off proper riding! I'm doing some Pilates just now to try and really build up some muscle tone again.
The only thing I find help is building muscle where your weak points are- if I don't I just end up with dislocations.
I'm sure others can offer better advice both its good to have a rant and get it off your chest, your not alone

 

[HeyMich]

Sorry you're feeling so down. I'm sure your riding will improve with time!

I go to pilates regularly and it really helps with my back and shoulder problems, and my general posture when riding.

 

[Zuzan]

Pilates is good but only as good as the teacher and personally have found that 1 to 1 sessions are really really important. I have also found that Somatics is really excellent for hypermobility.. I am blesses as my Pilates teacher also teaches Hanna Somatics and both work brilliantly together. It has TRANSFORMED me and obviously the riding too..

have a look here and see what you think.. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=essential+somatics+martha+peterson

 

[TwyfordM]

Your only option is to build strong muscles to support your joints.
I say this as someone recently diagnosed with ehlers danlos syndrome, reynauds and severe hypermobility. I'm not even thinking about getting back on a horse until I've got the pain managed and good support for joints.... and probably several braces

 

[ester]

Definitely Zuzan, I have a pretty fussy instructor who tries very hard to keep an eye on me and I think generally it is good for me but we also think that it irritates some of my bad bits more than working them under load with the weights does. It has given me more body awareness but I do also over think! The hope is that getting everything is good as it can be will help improve my day to day movement too, because it's all very well getting it right in the gym but that isn't what makes things start hurting.

 

[DabDab]

I feel your pain OP. I have ehlers danlos hyper mobility, which predominantly manifests itself in my hips, knees and ankles (so all the useful riding bits ). When left to my own devices and not concentrating my body is very still, but I am leaned back and my legs just wobble around. This isn't actually too bad for training horses, and is actually pretty useful on unpredictable youngsters as it desensitises them pretty quickly and it takes a hell of a lot to shift me from the saddle, but it is beyond awful for riding in front of a dressage judge. My legs move so much it looks like I'm using my legs every half a stride (even though they're not actually touching the horse).
Other than the suggestions above - muscle build up, Pilates, physio - the main thing that helps for me is having someone (any willing victim will do), to stand and watch me and shout 'tighten up' at me whenever I slip into floppiness. You have to become conscious of every muscle you need to keep yourself in the right place. And don't overdo it all in one go, don't let yourself get to the point where you're getting tired and letting yourself go out of shape. I alternate between sitting and rising trot quite a lot, because it saves my muscles getting tired so quickly. Infinity better to do less, well, than more, badly.

On the flip side I'm very good at riding and training lateral movements as I have a lot of different leg positions to play with - silver linings and all that

 

[milliepops]

On the flip side I'm very good at riding and training lateral movements as I have a lot of different leg positions to play with - silver linings and all that

^ lol at this! I have to remember, if I help other people, that they might not be able to put their legs in places I can easily

I count myself lucky, riding is excellent physio for me and it fixes the bits that get tight or wonky most of the time. Though the "extra loose " days are frustrating as I lack coordination.
I think the suggestion of little & often is a good one, tired muscles are useless ones IME.

 

[Fruitcake]

Thanks everyone. I’ll have a look at the Facebook group and somatics. Haven’t heard of that before. I’ve done Pilates in the past but I’m never sure I’m doing things right as, although I could put my body into the positions, I think I was using the wrong bits. Maybe 1:1 sessions might be a good idea.

Ester, where did you find a specialist hypermobility physio? I think that might be an idea.

I think that “tightening up” for me is the opposite of what I need as I’m too tight all of the time! I tend to “hang onto” my muscles to stabilise my floppy joints which isn’t good in everyday life as I end up terribly stiff and sore and, in riding, tends to block the horse. I think I have a similar issue to Ester in that I recruit every possible muscle along with my core.

My lateral work is also rubbish at the moment as, although my legs will go into all sort of positions if I physically put them there, when my brain asks them to move, my hips just tighten even more and cause more blocking!

Thanks for being understanding about my ranting and complaining!

 

[Arzada]

I’ve done Pilates in the past but I’m never sure I’m doing things right as, although I could put my body into the positions, I think I was using the wrong bits. Maybe 1:1 sessions might be a good idea.

I'd recommend going to a very small class or 1:1 with Clinical/Modified Pilates teacher ie with a physiotherapist perhaps with a qualification eg from the APPI

 

[Shay]

A second (or possibly third) vote for Pilates ideally 1:1. My daughter is hypermobile and has ridden since she was 3. (now 18) We've tried a lot of stuff along the way but Pilates has really been the most effective. Once you know how it is supposed to feel in your body then group work is fine - but until you learn, and unlearn, how to move then 1:1 is really most effective. Folk with hypermobility can hide how they are performing an exercise by switching muscle activity from one group to another. Over time this leads to the over engaged muscle groups and twisting others have mentioned. I think we were lucky that this is an issue we have known about most of DD's life so we have always been very careful to build and exercise correctly. But definitely Pilates - and a decent sports therapist who understands the issues with hypermobility - are the most helpful.

 

[milliepops]

2 things that sprung to mind thinking about this today.

This will sound a bit flippant, but think about your equipment as some things will help & others will hinder. examples for me - for "proper" riding I always wear stiff boots as they make my ankles more stable and take some of the mental noise out - they are almost like braces! I had some Konigs for xmas/birthday one year and although a very expensive option, I was astounded at the difference it made. You can pick them up 2nd hand for a song if you're lucky.

Likewise reins - I have leather reins on my snaffle rein with stops every 3" which make it easy to hold securely without having to grip hard and tightening your hands/arms. I'm useless with plain reins, they make my hands ache, and rubber reins are too thick for me.
I like big lightweight stirrups that give a lot of stability to my feet but have flat treads that don't hurt my silly bendy feet... it's all mainstream stuff so no dispensation needed but those kinds of things have made a big difference to me, and anything that improves comfort or takes away some difficulty makes it easier to free up mental space to do other stuff well. Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but might help others.

2nd... how much riding do you get? I am able to maintain the best form when I ride daily, and have noticed a positive difference when I have 2 to ride. I feel stronger and more coordinated without getting tight.

 

[ester]

I have done 1 to 1 pilates previously with someone who was a physio who really liked the rehab side. - she was friends with my 'why won't you stay straight' physio. It was good but to some extent still didn't get to the nub of the issue and didn't help after I had to give it up (moved house).

I am absolutely with you on the tightness, it wasn't until 5 or so years ago that someone suggested I might have some hypermobility and that was causing the issue. - So that is after 15 years of seeing chiros/osteos/physios. I would not strike anyone as particularly bendy, my hamstrings used to be awful and I would not score high enough of a clinical hypermobility test. I did think it was just my pelvis but actually when in pilates and comparing to other people my knees bend back, my shoulders can touch the floor when they shouldn't, my ankles def move more... but I cannot sit properly with either my legs out in front or bent!

Re. the riding MP when I first moved to wiltshire I was hacking someone else's once in the week, riding frank at weekends and doing some gym stuff inbetween. I used to get really frustrated if I tried to school frank as I definitely lost strength compared to when I was riding daily.

Re. finding current physio I did email a few clinics and asked who their recommendation would be for someone with my issues. I ended up here firstly seeing someone else who only half got there, he left quite quickly and passed me on to this bloke who is just on it! It's not going to be miracles and he keeps telling me to stop thinking
http://www.progresshealth.co.uk/tom-quantrell.shtml

ATM a combo of fine exercises from him, working out and having needles/elbows with this guy
https://rpfitness.co.uk/richard-patman seems to be working. I just really wanted to get away from once a month being in a lot of pain and having to go get treated to start the cycle again, even if we just extend the cycle. It also gets in the way of a whole heap of other stuff.

I'm still currently sat on my lacrosse ball though .

*googles somatics .. though on the basis that we suspect my body/mind neurology is also a bit screwed

 

[ester]

Yes that 'red light reflex' that is me.

'The Red Light Reflex contracts the large abdominal muscles in the front of the body in response to fear and apprehension. When this reflex becomes chronically contracted, it pulls the shoulders up and forward distorting the posture, and it pulls the pelvis upward toward the ribcage, restricting the movement of the hips. In addition, it restricts the ability of the diaphragm to freely contract and relax, causing shallow breathing.'

So telling me to tighten my tummy etc is about the worse thing anyone can say as the automatic thing to do is just to make that worse.

My pondering then is whether that can ever be fully corrected without resolving the anxiety that develops that- because that might be a problem

 

[DabDab]

Not necessarily the worst thing Ester - the problem with that response is that it is causing you to over tighten the wrong muscles, but just letting the tension go is a)not that easy and b)not that useful, so you actually have to learn to transfer some of the tension to other muscles if that makes sense. My go to is to hold the tension through my shoulders and up my neck (I can actually make a cracking noise with my shoulder muscles when they're bad because of the amount of knots, and have slipped two discs in my neck when younger as a result), but just letting my head go floppy would be no good. I actually have to tighten up through other muscle groups to get the stress tensed muscles to release a little. And I find visualisation really useful when transferring tension 'in the moment', hence correcting myself by thinking 'tighten up' is quite useful to me. It's a bit like the piece of thread from head to ceiling thing, or piece of elastic on your front and back and you must keep either side taught thing.

 

[DabDab]

2 things that sprung to mind thinking about this today.

This will sound a bit flippant, but think about your equipment as some things will help & others will hinder. examples for me - for "proper" riding I always wear stiff boots as they make my ankles more stable and take some of the mental noise out - they are almost like braces! I had some Konigs for xmas/birthday one year and although a very expensive option, I was astounded at the difference it made. You can pick them up 2nd hand for a song if you're lucky.

Likewise reins - I have leather reins on my snaffle rein with stops every 3" which make it easy to hold securely without having to grip hard and tightening your hands/arms. I'm useless with plain reins, they make my hands ache, and rubber reins are too thick for me.
I like big lightweight stirrups that give a lot of stability to my feet but have flat treads that don't hurt my silly bendy feet... it's all mainstream stuff so no dispensation needed but those kinds of things have made a big difference to me, and anything that improves comfort or takes away some difficulty makes it easier to free up mental space to do other stuff well. Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but might help others.

2nd... how much riding do you get? I am able to maintain the best form when I ride daily, and have noticed a positive difference when I have 2 to ride. I feel stronger and more coordinated without getting tight.

Completely agree. I have cheapie lightweight stirrups that were recommended to me on here (possibly by you actually), and the difference they make to my ankles is amazing.

 

[ester]

Thanks DabDab, I've actually been having somewhat the opposite conversation with the hypermobilty physio, as to whether I do better trying to turn some key points off. He is very keen that for any movement there is no chance you will be able to think it all through before it has happened.
That is where that left hamstring comes in, it likes to take over, and I managed to stop using it for the exercise he had me doing but I then had a pain episode and it was only him holding the insertion point while I did the movement to work out that I'd managed to resolve most of the situation but that the top bit was still holding on for dear life Essentially it likes to say to all my other muscles, 'I've got this guys, stand down'. When realistically all those other muscles are pretty strong and capable but just need to be allowed to be put in the position where they can do their job.

The muscle situation and anxiety situation I suspect is a little bit chicken/egg or at least a bit 50:50. The worse thing that can happen is to get the left glute pain that is so familiar as it triggers tightening pain responses and even more anxiety.

For me visualisation is really difficult, I think that is why I have ended up 'thinking too much' and am trying to get other people to go with that , add that to a probable lack of propioception, and altered perception of pain we do accept that we have a bit of an uphill struggle!

Anyway the last couple of years has been a big learning curve about what my body is doing and why and I think I am only just unravelling it sufficiently to do try and alter it now. Everything cracks and pops but as this has always been the case it's not been a biggie, generally it is not a good sign if it stops cracking and popping as that means stuff has got really stuck

 

[Fruitcake]

2nd... how much riding do you get? I am able to maintain the best form when I ride daily, and have noticed a positive difference when I have 2 to ride. I feel stronger and more coordinated without getting tight.

This is the best justification ever for getting another horse! I’ve been looking for an excuse and this seems to have some actual grounds!

In seriousness though, you may have a point as my instructor always comments that by riding is much better over the summer when I’m off work. I just put it down to being less busy and stressed but it could be down to th extra riding I do. At the moment, I probably ride three or four times a week due to work, dark nights etc but over the summer, I ride most days.

In terms of equipment, I have some Sprenger Bow Balance stirrups which I think really help my dodgy, bendy ankles and I too like thin reins. I have some nice flexible rubber thin ones which I find easy to hold without gripping. I had wondered about tighter boots as I tend to ride in either country boots or those Mountains Horse short boots so it might be worth looking at some different ones. Thanks.

Ester, I think that red light thing might apply to me too! I am determined to find a specialist physio or trainer to help as, like you, I’m fed up of the monthly sessions at the osteopath where everything has just twisted and distorted again.

 

[ycbm]

Likewise reins - I have leather reins on my snaffle rein with stops every 3" which make it easy to hold securely without having to grip hard and tightening your hands/arms. I'm useless with plain reins, they make my hands ache, and rubber reins are too thick for me.

I find that 'eventer' reins where the leather does not go up the centre of the rubber are much better than ordinary rubber reins.

I'm only mildly hypermobile, my hands are the worst piece of me, and I'm so grateful I don't have the pain and stability problems you are all describing.

 

[DabDab]

Ester, I think you might be talking about static therapy as opposed to dynamic correction 'in the moment'.

Yes, my physio does a lot of muscle release work on me - she's a horse physio actually and there's a lot of shared theory and techniques going on I think

The therapy is a massive help but I still need to be able to sort myself out 'in the moment'.

 

[ester]

Essentially I am just supposed to be managing to move my leg into single knee fold without my hamstring having a jolly and pushing against a gym ball while it is in that position without the hamstring having a jolly, building up to managing to have my arse off the ground (not a chance of that ATM!) All performed while bloke holds the bottom of my arse with his eyes closed to see if he can work out when I'm moving my leg

 

[DabDab]

Hahaha! You know that moment during a physio session like that when you suddenly realise the ridiculousness of the position you're currently in

 

[TigerTail]

To the OP - you sound like you need regular physio and myofacial release as you're other muscles have been working over time to support your weaker joints and as such as tying up in knots! This is what mine tend to do.

In terms of riding have you got an Enlightened Equitation instructor anywhere near you? Being asked to tighten you core etc doesnt sound like helpful instruction tbh, being loose should enable you to absorb the movement better than rigid riders! Its all about how you're taught for me and EE has been the most clear

 

[DabDab]

'Being loose' isn't really conducive to good riding though. The whole problem with hyper mobility is that the structure of your joints lack tension, so your muscles have to make up for that as well as doing their own job. Without careful control and training of muscle memory unfortunately our bodies start using all sorts of muscles to do the holding us up thing, which then twists and contorts us further and compounds the problem.

But just 'go loose' is not helpful advice when it comes to riding. I know this because it was the advice I was given over and over again, before I stopped trying to obsess about the tension that I should be getting rid of and instead focused on what I should be doing with my body. I have a picture of me doing 'just let all the tension go and be loose' riding, but it is honestly too embarrassing to post.

 

[TigerTail]

I didn't say "go loose" I said being loose is better than being rigid.... and as someone who is a 9/9 on the Beignton scale I know about hms too! I didn't mean ride like a rag doll as that is daft!

 

[Fruitcake]

To the OP - you sound like you need regular physio and myofacial release as you're other muscles have been working over time to support your weaker joints and as such as tying up in knots! This is what mine tend to do.

In terms of riding have you got an Enlightened Equitation instructor anywhere near you? Being asked to tighten you core etc doesnt sound like helpful instruction tbh, being loose should enable you to absorb the movement better than rigid riders! Its all about how you're taught for me and EE has been the most clear

I think I really could do with some sort of release! I do go for spots massage which is such a relief for a few days to a week but then the tension starts to creep in again.

In terms of instruction, my instructor is great. She’s classical and is all for releasing and riding with no tension. (It’s a shame that I’m not very good at this though! ) We do loads of work on releasing and absorbing the movement / going with the horse but, I think I need some sort of physio type intervention too as I think just letting the tension go isn’t actually possible for me. I don’t know exactly why but I just don’t seem able to release my muscles on command. It’s just finding a physio who really understands hypermobility or specialises in it.

 

[ester]

Just an addition. I think it is worth considering that our 'normal' is different. So releasing muscles on command is difficult if you haven't managed to realise if they are contracted or not if that makes sense, if it doesn't feel contracted to you it is harder to find it and decontract it.

So as an example if I stand on one foot my toes grip really hard. If someone asks me what my toes are doing I say 'nothing' because to me that level of tension is normal so it isn't necessarily that I don't know what they are doing, just that to me it feels normal.
For me it makes a big difference if someone uses a touch cue on the area that they want to do or stop doing something, much quicker than trying to find it myself.

It is definitely some sort of careful balancing act! HM dude says that the thing with being bendy is that we are able to generate such long term muscle memories for things, if we were normal and did what we do we'd end up with an injury pretty quickly and have to stop doing it like that.

 

[Fruitcake]

Just an addition. I think it is worth considering that our 'normal' is different. So releasing muscles on command is difficult if you haven't managed to realise if they are contracted or not if that makes sense, if it doesn't feel contracted to you it is harder to find it and decontract it.

So as an example if I stand on one foot my toes grip really hard. If someone asks me what my toes are doing I say 'nothing' because to me that level of tension is normal so it isn't necessarily that I don't know what they are doing, just that to me it feels normal.
For me it makes a big difference if someone uses a touch cue on the area that they want to do or stop doing something, much quicker than trying to find it myself.

It is definitely some sort of careful balancing act! HM dude says that the thing with being bendy is that we are able to generate such long term muscle memories for things, if we were normal and did what we do we'd end up with an injury pretty quickly and have to stop doing it like that.

I think this is very true! I definitely think my “normal” is not the same as others’ normal. I also have very poor proprioception in general and find it really hard to make my brain tell bits to do something. I agree that a touch makes all the difference. It seems to trigger my brain into saying, “Oh that bit! That’s what you want!”

I want a HM dude too! He sounds great!