I’m not sure what to think….

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

No, he was the coach and he seemingly didn’t hesitate to grab a branch and hit a horse with it. The rider is not in question in this situation - MT is and he’s a greater ambassador for the sport than the rider.

Hence why if you think this video is bad marketing for horse sport, the fault lies with MT. It seems misplaced to blame the rider for posting the video on social media

becauee I think she handled it wrong it shouldn’t have been put on social media. As from comments from several who have been to his clinics this clearly isn’t how he commonly trains. No it doesn’t justify what he did but in my eyes he made a mistake that could’ve been easily rectified if he just was told. I’m certain if she would’ve said to him he wouldn’t have done it again, not just to her horse but others too, he’s not a monster his intent was not to hurt the horse, he used a bad training technique and I’m sure he would’ve understood and I don’t think he deserves to have his career and reputation destroyed over this mistake or have threats come to him. I don’t think everyone did need to get involved. It was handled wrong in my opinion

 

[ycbm]

I honestly feel the tradition of carrying a whip should be gone, I dont even own a whip (other than lunge whip) and I seem to be in the tiny minority. Why is in the norm to carry a whip and to use it so easily.

Because they have very good uses, either for communication or safety.
.

 

[Bellaboo18]

becauee I think she handled it wrong it shouldn’t have been put on social media. As from comments from several who have been to his clinics this clearly isn’t how he commonly trains. No it doesn’t justify what he did but in my eyes he made a mistake that could’ve been easily rectified if he just was told. I’m certain if she would’ve said to him he wouldn’t have done it again, not just to her horse but others too, he’s not a monster his intent was not to hurt the horse, he used a bad training technique and I’m sure he would’ve understood and I don’t think he deserves to have his career and reputation destroyed over this mistake or have threats come to him. I don’t think everyone did need to get involved. It was handled wrong in my opinion

Sorry, the most naive post I've even seen! So if the rider had told MT she didn't like his training techniques you think he'd have never used them again?! ?

 

[sakura]

becauee I think she handled it wrong it shouldn’t have been put on social media. As from comments from several who have been to his clinics this clearly isn’t how he commonly trains. No it doesn’t justify what he did but in my eyes he made a mistake that could’ve been easily rectified if he just was told. I’m certain if she would’ve said to him he wouldn’t have done it again, not just to her horse but others too, he’s not a monster his intent was not to hurt the horse, he used a bad training technique and I’m sure he would’ve understood and I don’t think he deserves to have his career and reputation destroyed over this mistake or have threats come to him. I don’t think everyone did need to get involved. It was handled wrong in my opinion

I appreciate your optimism, but MT is an Olympic rider. He shouldn’t need to be told that what he did was wrong

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

Sorry, the most naive post I've even seen! So if the rider had told MT she didn't like his training techniques you think he'd have never used them again?! ?

Probably yeah! He’d have realised that people don’t like that. As I said it’s clearly not how he commonly trains other people.. I’ve no idea what he does at home but we don’t have proof of that. He made a mistake, and give the man a chance? How do you know? If this is something he is carrying on doing then sure… but of all the MT clinics there’s been and majority of people film them due to who he is there has only been one video! So I have no reason to believe it was anything other than a mistake. Before taking such drastic actions to plaster it online maybe just try saying something to him!

 

[palo1]

Just curious, do you all think that horses ALWAYS do things because they trust and are confident? Do you think they never need to be made to do something?

That is a really thought provoking question! For me, as an amateur/leisure rider and owner there would be few occasions where a horse would need to be made to do anything. If I can't get a horse to do something I tend to think that is my failing rather than the horse's and thus the horse probably shouldn't face negative consequences as a result of my lack of skill. I keep horses because I like them, find them interesting, love the various challenges of training and riding etc. I can think of a couple of times when a horse would or could be made to do something and if it involved safety (mine or horse's) then I would use whatever means necessary to achieve that outcome. There must be some situations where negotiation and fairness get compromised out of necessity or for long term benefit but that is quite nuanced I think. If I were a professional, with my home, business and the lives of other animals at stake then I would be more easily persuaded to use a variety of strategies to get a job done. But that is the conundrum morally about 'using' an animal. I don't have a huge problem with having a relationship with an animal, I eat meat and we have our own stock killed but somehow competition feels different; it's interesting to think about.

I guess my experience is that if I choose to keep a horse for fun then I should probably train it without force and with the best care I can provide; that is the moral framework I have for keeping an animal and that seems just as valid when I consider keeping an animal for food! I am not sure what the moral framework for other business purposes is tbh!!

 

[ester]

He'd have known 1 person didn't like that, not 'people'?

 

[Bellaboo18]

Probably yeah! He’d have realised that people don’t like that. As I said it’s clearly not how he commonly trains other people.. I’ve no idea what he does at home but we don’t have proof of that. He made a mistake, and give the man a chance? How do you know? If this is something he is carrying on doing then sure… but of all the MT clinics there’s been and majority of people film them due to who he is there has only been one video! So I have no reason to believe it was anything other than a mistake. Before taking such drastic actions to plaster it online maybe just try saying something to him!

Ester answered this for me.

I find it odd you're keen to give MT a chance, what about the horse?

 

[Hepsibah]

My concern now is that *people * believe that hitting a horse, in one clinic as there is no suggestion that the trainer had any further interaction with the horse, its to be equated with sustained and targeted sexual abuse!

We are not talking of just one incident here, rather that anybody who has filmed abusive behaviour should think twice before posting the footage online in case it is bad for "the sport".

 

[YorksG]

We are not talking of just one incident here, rather that anybody who has filmed abusive behaviour should think twice before posting the footage online in case it is bad for "the sport".

Well actually we were talking about one incident. I am appalled that anyone would equate hitting a horse with a child being subjected to sexual abuse.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

He'd have known 1 person didn't like that, not 'people'?

I mean like I say I don’t think this is common practice in his clinics, there was this one incidence… if she’d have said I think he would’ve understood not to do it to anyone again

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

Ester answered this for me.

I find it odd you're keen to give MT a chance, what about the horse?

What about the horse? He was jumping round BE100 and schooling in the water a few days later…
I agree in the video he was wayyyy harsh with his approach, didn’t give the horse a chance to look but it’s been done now, I think MT should’ve had the chance to be aware of his actions and rectify his mistake… before it was blasted on social media

 

[Hepsibah]

....

The man himself is acting with a lot more dignity than the people determined to attempt to defend his actions.

This is undeniably true. I have no particular beef with this man. He got it wrong, he admitted it and has the grace to be embarrassed and ashamed. It is the mentality that it is not okay to be talked about or seen, that this sort of thing shouldn't be called out, rooted out and roundly condemned that is most concerning to me.

 

[TPO]

I mean like I say I don’t think this is common practice in his clinics, there was this one incidence… if she’d have said I think he would’ve understood not to do it to anyone again

"I don't think"

No one "thought" that MT would do this before they saw the video for themselves.

Apparently she did say and was dismissed. SHE isn't the issue. Regardless of her motives for posting it (for laughs/attention/revenge?) it's what IN the video that is the issue. There are thousands of "influencers" out there posting videos of their lessons and riding. This one has become notorious because it features MT being abusive towards a horse. Not sure what you're not getting?!

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

"I don't think"

No one "thought" that MT would do this before they saw the video for themselves.

Apparently she did say and was dismissed. SHE isn't the issue. Regardless of her motives for posting it (for laughs/attention/revenge?) it's what IN the video that is the issue. There are thousands of "influencers" out there posting videos of their lessons and riding. This one has become notorious because it features MT being abusive towards a horse. Not sure what you're not getting?!

It should’ve been handled differently, before putting on social media. He made a mistake and now he’s getting death threats, people are boycotting his brand, he’s been suspended from his career… for what in my opinion was a mistake in using a bad training technique. Because we have no other proof it is common practice for him, he should’ve been given a chance before such harsh consequences and threats, it is near on impossible to control the threats that people are going to send out, so before he is subject to such harsh consequences he should’ve been given a chance… I’m not sure what you’re not getting!?

 

[Upthecreek]

Well actually we were talking about one incident. I am appalled that anyone would equate hitting a horse with a child being subjected to sexual abuse.

I don’t think Hepsibah was equating hitting a horse with a child being subjected to sexual abuse. I read it that the comparison was to demonstrate how organisations sweep allegations under the carpet or turn a blind eye, which may be in the best interests of the organisations but obviously not in the best interests of the victims.

 

[TPO]

It should’ve been handled differently, before putting on social media. He made a mistake and now he’s getting death threats, people are boycotting his brand, he’s been suspended from his career… for what in my opinion was a mistake in using a bad training technique. Because we have no other proof it is common practice for him, he should’ve been given a chance before such harsh consequences and threats, it is near on impossible to control the threats that people are going to send out, so before he is subject to such harsh consequences he should’ve been given a chance… I’m not sure what you’re not getting!?

You're going to have to make your mind up because you claim that the rider put the video up laughs. Therefore nothing to "handle". It was the people who watched it and shared it in horror/disgust that meant it gained traction.

So how many times do people have to be caught with unequivocal evidence/proof before they can be held accountable?

I can see nothing wrong with how the man himself has handled the situation. He owned up to it, he apologised (to the horse ?), he stepped down from WHW and has accepted the BHA suspension while they review the situation.

It's people like you who are making things worse for him with the nonsensical circular arguments where they don't seem quite sure of what their point is.

Any threats towards him are breaking the law and should be dealt with accordingly. No one with a brain cell is supportive of that.

 

[YorksG]

I don’t think Hepsibah was equating hitting a horse with a child being subjected to sexual abuse. I read it that the comparison was to demonstrate how organisations sweep allegations under the carpet or turn a blind eye, which may be in the best interests of the organisations but obviously not in the best interests of the victims.

The comparison was crass and in very bad taste imo.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

You're going to have to make your mind up because you claim that the rider put the video up laughs. Therefore nothing to "handle". It was the people who watched it and shared it in horror/disgust that meant it gained traction.

So how many times do people have to be caught with unequivocal evidence/proof before they can be held accountable?

I can see nothing wrong with how the man himself has handled the situation. He owned up to it, he apologised (to the horse ?), he stepped down from WHW and has accepted the BHA suspension while they review the situation.

It's people like you who are making things worse for him with the nonsensical circular arguments where they don't seem quite sure of what their point is.

Any threats towards him are breaking the law and should be dealt with accordingly. No one with a brain cell is supportive of that.

im saying the girl put it up for laughs, not that ME personally thinks it’s funny, maybe she didn’t think there was anything to handle I don’t know.

You’re just completely missing the point- that it’s gotten way out of hand that it didn’t need to be put on social media first. How do you know he wouldn’t have apologised to her at the time? You can say it’s optimistic but just try…like surely first step is to try the less drastic measure then if it doesn’t work then do something else, put it o social media whatever.

I’m just going to leave it because we are never going to agree.
I don’t think it was handled right, no I don’t think what he did was acceptable, and I am absolutely not saying to brush it under the rug! But there are other ways of talking about it before it gets to social media in my opinion.
I think this has gotten out of hand for what was a bad technique used, I don’t think MT is a monster or an animal abuser
and I think it’s gotten way out of hand

 

[Hepsibah]

That is a direct equating of the two and hugely offensive to any abuse survivors. Ridiculous analogy in my opinion

FWIW, it is my analogy and I am an abuse survivor. 14 years worth. Your argument is invalid.

 

[YorksG]

FWIW, it is my analogy and I am an abuse survivor. 14 years worth. Your argument is invalid.

Having spent 40 years working with survivors of, mainly, organised abuse, I stand by my argument

 

[TPO]

im saying the girl put it up for laughs, not that ME personally thinks it’s funny, maybe she didn’t think there was anything to handle I don’t know.

You’re just completely missing the point- that it’s gotten way out of hand that it didn’t need to be put on social media first. How do you know he wouldn’t have apologised to her at the time? You can say it’s optimistic but just try…like surely first step is to try the less drastic measure then if it doesn’t work then do something else, put it o social media whatever.

I’m just going to leave it because we are never going to agree.
I don’t think it was handled right, no I don’t think what he did was acceptable, and I am absolutely not saying to brush it under the rug! But there are other ways of talking about it before it gets to social media in my opinion.
I think this has gotten out of hand for what was a bad technique used, I don’t think MT is a monster or an animal abuser
and I think it’s gotten way out of hand

YOU are missing the point

If she put it up "for laughs", as you've repeatedly claimed, then she didn't post it to "wreck his life", as you also claim.

No one on this forum has called him a "monster" but most are united in condemning the abuse of that horse at the clinic.

The best thing about banging your head off a brick wall is the relief when you stop.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

YOU are missing the point

If she put it up "for laughs", as you've repeatedly claimed, then she didn't post it to "wreck his life", as you also claim.

No one on this forum has called him a "monster" but most are united in condemning the abuse of that horse at the clinic.

The best thing about banging your head off a brick wall is the relief when you stop.

But before you put something up for laughs… just think about what effects it might have? I’m not sure she’s going to be finding it funny now?
I agree with you it was wrong but the whole argument is whether or not it was handled correctly and in my opinion it was not.

 

[Hepsibah]

Having spent 40 years working with survivors of, mainly, organised abuse, I stand by my argument

Perhaps but being somebody who has the lived experience of an abused child, I can say for certain that I empathise with any innocent abused with no recourse and no hope of help.

 

[Hepsibah]

But before you put something up for laughs… just think about what effects it might have? I’m not sure she’s going to be finding it funny now?
I agree with you it was wrong but the whole argument is whether or not it was handled correctly and in my opinion it was not.

What about if the effect it might have is that it prevents other people thinking it's okay to beat the crap out of a horse?

 

[Bellaboo18]

What about the horse? He was jumping round BE100 and schooling in the water a few days later…
I agree in the video he was wayyyy harsh with his approach, didn’t give the horse a chance to look but it’s been done now, I think MT should’ve had the chance to be aware of his actions and rectify his mistake… before it was blasted on social media

I'm not sure what the fact he was jumping round BE100 days later has to do with the episode but it does say alot about your thoughts on horse welfare.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

I'm not sure what the fact he was jumping round BE100 days later has to do with the episode but it does say alot about your thoughts on horse welfare.

it doesn’t say what you’re insinuating. I don’t know how many times I’ve said what he did was wrong.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I appreciate your optimism, but MT is an Olympic rider. He shouldn’t need to be told that what he did was wrong

He doesn't. He's admitted it was wrong and has apologised .

 

[maggiestar]

The bottom line is that Mark Todd was wrong to do what he did but he's now paying huge consequences for something that happened two years ago. It makes me wonder whether who is the cruellest? Someone who acted like an oaf in a split second? Or those who are piling on him now? (Including the rider who was apparently too scared to advocate for her own horse at the time)
It reminds me of a thread recently about another big name who used insensitive language during a workshop. The offended person didn't say anything at the time but wrote it here and the advice was to complain to the venue etc. Justice is always served cold these days. Why don't we give each other the opportunity to rectify things on the spot anymore? If someone is being an idiot, the kindest thing is to tell them to their face. Give people a chance. Don't sneak around on social media after the fact. It's cruel, vindictive, and cowardly to pile on individuals from behind a keyboard. Getting people cancelled. Ruining careers. If I ever messed up I would be so grateful to be told on the spot rather than find out later that I'm the subject of a social media frenzy.
And yes, I hate what MT did to that horse. Good on him for apologising. If only the rider had stood up for her animal at the time!

 

[cauda equina]

Kindness and decency should operate in all directions
We should treat all animals well, and that includes our fellow humans