I came, I saw, I almost bought....

BunnyDog

BunnyDog

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2017
Messages
720
Location
USA
Visit site
Hi again!

I did come over and tried a bunch of horses in Ireland and Belgium. LOADS of fun and though a bit different from home (US) not too different. I wouldn't say there's a huge difference in the quality of horses, but it is a lot easier to see more in a shorter time and the prices on your side of the pond haven't gone insane like on our side.

I did fall in love with a horse in Ireland that I'd found myself on an online advert. He was everything I was looking for and we clicked well. Unfortunately yesterday's vetting revealed some serious issues that no one was aware of. I feel badly for the horse's connections as they likely went into the day happy at the thought of a big check before xmas, and they came away with a horse that likely needs to be rested 6 months to a year.

But all in all a very fun experience. I will likely come back again and look in the future. For now we'll just get through winter and work on selling my one resale horse and compete my others. (Which was always the plan in addition to competing any new purchases)

~Em
 
Thanks for the update! I saw your earlier thread but didn't comment. Shame it didn't work out this time, you'll have to let us know how you get on if you choose to come back. Shame about the horse you liked, very unfortunate for all involved (but also shows the value in a good vetting!).
 
I loved trying the various horse. We sat (I brought a friend along to help me be able to watch a bit before riding, with someone who's riding style is familiar to mine) on I think 13 all told. Have video of 12.

https://youtu.be/mc41gmj4mPc

The one that failed is the 3rd horse on this video. Shame but he should be sidelined for a long time.

Em
 
The last grey, in the indoor, I made some of my friends here in the US buy. He was a fabulous horse and would fit in their program with students and such very well. Also good timing as they're headed to Wellington for a month this winter for the first time. He's got a lot of FEI experience and should do them proud.

Em
 
BunnyDog said:
The last grey, in the indoor, I made some of my friends here in the US buy. He was a fabulous horse and would fit in their program with students and such very well. Also good timing as they're headed to Wellington for a month this winter for the first time. He's got a lot of FEI experience and should do them proud.

Em
Click to expand...

am glad he found a good home
 
conniegirl said:
I though this too, but then doubted myself.
I also think the 4th one didnt look right behind, not sure if it just got its legs in a knot of if something more serious going on.
Click to expand...

No, you're right. Something more serious going on, I think. Horses don't tend to get their legs in a knot and there was a bit of swishing. I didn't want to say, though, as I have a bit of a reputation for calling 'lame' and everyone jumping on me.

OP - really glad the grey has a nice home. Good luck in finding something suitable.
 
HeresHoping said:
No, you're right. Something more serious going on, I think. Horses don't tend to get their legs in a knot and there was a bit of swishing. I didn't want to say, though, as I have a bit of a reputation for calling 'lame' and everyone jumping on me.

OP - really glad the grey has a nice home. Good luck in finding something suitable.
Click to expand...

i've had a few youngsters get thier legs in a knot when jumping, but they've generaly been gangly youngsters who are trying to find thier balance.
 
Hi BD!

Thanks for posting the video of the clips - it was really interesting to see all the horses you tried! Well done as well - I've ridden only my horse for the last few years, so the thought of trying out 12 in a short space of time would fill me with dread!!

Like you, I really liked No. 3 (the bay in the indoor school) - I thought he looked a super type - and he had a lovely jump. To start with I hadn't realised that you tried two horses at the first yard (a chestnut and a bay), so I thought that 3 was 2, and 4 was 3 - if you see what I mean! (Although having said all of that, I hope I haven't got that completely wrong.....)

Anyway, I just wondered how you found No. 1 to ride - it looked like you had a great ride on him (?) and you were enjoying yourself - and he had a great jump?

What are you planning to do with your new equine friend when you find the right one - are you mainly into SJ or do you event as well?
 
Northern Hare said:
Anyway, I just wondered how you found No. 1 to ride - it looked like you had a great ride on him (?) and you were enjoying yourself - and he had a great jump?

What are you planning to do with your new equine friend when you find the right one - are you mainly into SJ or do you event as well?
Click to expand...

Sadly #1 comes down to being a problem of pronouns. It's a chestnut mare and in the USA that's just death on a stick. Everyone is convinced they are the worst. Doesn't matter if they're talented, kind, genuine or what have you. It's near impossible to sell on a chestnut mare. True it can be done, but to do so and get over mid 5 figures back you're having to spend money to send it to a big name rider or a sales barn with a great rep. Both of those cost you dearly and will seriously negate any return on the sale. I did enjoy her but didn't feel like she enjoyed my ride type, (wringing tail galore). That said she's the sweetest mare on the ground. Lots of experience and a fair price but I just didn't get "the" feeling with her.

So to clarify, I am looking for a horse that's done jumpers to around 1.25m. I am good myself through 1.15 or so but I lack the experience beyond that point. I have a lovely couple of up and coming horses but to better teach them I need some more experience on my side and it would be best with a made horse.

I made my husband the promise (after it took 5 years to sell a seriously great horse who was 15.3) that we would only buy horses that could be resold easily if we got in a pinch. So now I am one of those annoying American's who 'needs' nearly perfect vetting just to protect my investment. Now I work at a well known large animal hospital so I know very well that you can have all sorts of issues pop up on a horse that vets perfect...but I made him the deal. So I need a horse that vets well. I'm (thankfully) not a young person asking for all of this and I have been around the block plenty. I used to event but I have enjoyed jumpers more and been more successful at it. That coupled with the frightening turn in eventing with relation to deaths, has me thoroughly content to play with jumps that fall down.

Em
 
Last edited:
Ooh interesting vid thx for posting. Some great trial facilities and looks like you had a good try out. I lost track of which horse was which though hah.
 
Your prices must be horrific in the US if it's worth spending over ten thousand pounds to fly these horses back home? Can you give us some examples, I'd love to know what they sell for. Why don't dealers import whole plane loads, or do they?
 
ycbm said:
Your prices must be horrific in the US if it's worth spending over ten thousand pounds to fly these horses back home? Can you give us some examples, I'd love to know what they sell for. Why don't dealers import whole plane loads, or do they?
Click to expand...

Not looked into it loads but yes I'd always understood prices in the US market are ��������
 
3rd Horse definitely suited you the best, such a shame on the vetting.
I was going to say that looking at the type we tried one a few weeks back that might have suited you down to the ground, but then I saw you wanted an established 1.25 Horse (although very few of those videos would fit that) - this was a 5yo Ramiro B gelding we deliberated quite a lot on.
 
OK so multiple things to respond to... let me go through them slowly:

1) I should clarify that horses that had shown and had a record at 1.20 was where we drew the line since my budgeted price was landing in kind of an awkward area (25k local currency)

2) All the costs to get shipped and quarantined to me is only (yes I said 'only' ha ha ) $9k USD a bit less if I put them in the 1/3rd a stall instead of a half stall.

3) I don't know if dealers put a bunch on the plane. I'm not going to a US dealer since I don't feel like losing my house. :)

4) The best way to show what our market is like is to have you go to www.bigeq.com Do an advanced search for under $30k. Then you can see what my money will get me in the states. The selection abroad is much deeper and even with the added expense of the importing I am getting more bang for my buck. This started as me trying to lease a horse for 6 months to a year to, as I mentioned previously, to get more experience at the higher heights. Well it was a shock to my husband and I that leasing a made horse, even over the age of 15, would cost at least $10,000 for 6 months. One of the younger horses they wanted $15k for 3-4 months. My husband put his proverbial foot down and said that he was dead set against wasting our invested funds that way. We'd have nothing after the lease ended. So instead of watching 10-15k fly away we figured we would import something so in theory I can ride it for a year or so and then either sell it or join in the active money making lease market.

The horse I vetted was even more promising because he'd evented all this year in addition to having 2 years experience doing the show jumpers. This made him instantly worth about 50-60k once he hits US soil. His asking price in Ireland is 25k euro. Most of the horses on the video would be worth more once they hit the continent.

For example in order:

1st horse is a 9 yr old mare with 1.35m experience and is 16.1 hands. She's chestnut so that sucks but she'd still be worth more.
2nd horse is a 7 yr old 16.2 bay mare with 1.20 experience
3rd horse already mentioned.
4th horse has experience to 1.20 and is a 5 yr old 17.2 with hunt experience as well.
5th horse is a 5 yr old mare with I think 1 show at 1.20. But largely 1.15 or 1.10. They said she was 16 hands, I doubted it.
6th horse is a 6yr old that was sold the next day to a Scottish rider. He was 17.1 and I think had experience to 1.40
7th horse is a lovely 5 yr old @ 16.1-2 that had shown 1.20 a handful of times and I believe will be a fantastic 7 yr old. Right now he's still too green. But he's only had 5 months total training.
8th horse (first in Belgium) is an 8 yr old 17.1 with a long FEI record to 1.40 and like I mentioned I got my friends to buy him. (He had bad xrays but we knew that going in)
9th horse, this was my least favorite. 7 yr old gelding around 16.1 they said he'd done 1.20 but in the school he stopped at a .90 vertical.
10th horse, LOVELY Diadoro (?) gelding, 7 yr old. 16.1 Quite friendly and a looker. Lovely mover, jumps well.
11th horse, I will be sharing this one to my friends on Facebook this weekend. He's a neat horse. I think a 7yr old who has a record to 1.25 or so. Successful and a very typey bascule jumper. Stood 16.3 I think.

All of these horses would be worth more than the prices on them in their home country. Hence why it made sense to hop the pond and look around. I did try to have my friend in Ireland, who is American but has lived there 15 years, set up the appointments for me so I didn't automatically get the prices raised when I show up as an American. But largely I saw horses advertised with active prices listed online.

Em
 
This has to be my favourite ever thread on H&H - it's great to hear about our horse market from a totally different perspective!

Thanks also for responding with such a detailed reply ref your thoughts on the chestnut mare (No. 1) - it is really interesting to hear how chestnut mares are perceived across the pond. In the UK, there's is always the usual "chestnut mare" comment but not to the extent that it would put me off buying a good one if it came to it.

As a young pony-mad child, my Godmother from the US gave me a wonderful kids story book about a young American girl who was given a pony for Christmas - and I remember so clearly all the illustrations of the pony in the "barn" with beautiful white fencing around all the paddocks!

Ever since then, I've been fascinated about the horse scene in the US - and the distances you have to travel to show centres. It's so different to over here where by contrast we have relatively short distances to travel (even up here in the North of England), and the majority of the time we can compete and travel on the same day.

Btw, if you are ever re-visiting Ireland, I'd really recommend getting in touch with William Micklem (the designer of the Micklem bridle!). He is not a dealer, but has many contacts throughout Ireland and has sourced horses for many US riders including Karen and David O'Connor. William has a website with lots of info. He's an amazing and very talented horseman.
 
Northern Hare said:
This has to be my favourite ever thread on H&H - it's great to hear about our horse market from a totally different perspective!

Thanks also for responding with such a detailed reply ref your thoughts on the chestnut mare (No. 1) - it is really interesting to hear how chestnut mares are perceived across the pond. In the UK, there's is always the usual "chestnut mare" comment but not to the extent that it would put me off buying a good one if it came to it.

As a young pony-mad child, my Godmother from the US gave me a wonderful kids story book about a young American girl who was given a pony for Christmas - and I remember so clearly all the illustrations of the pony in the "barn" with beautiful white fencing around all the paddocks!

Ever since then, I've been fascinated about the horse scene in the US - and the distances you have to travel to show centres. It's so different to over here where by contrast we have relatively short distances to travel (even up here in the North of England), and the majority of the time we can compete and travel on the same day.

Btw, if you are ever re-visiting Ireland, I'd really recommend getting in touch with William Micklem (the designer of the Micklem bridle!). He is not a dealer, but has many contacts throughout Ireland and has sourced horses for many US riders including Karen and David O'Connor. William has a website with lots of info. He's an amazing and very talented horseman.
Click to expand...

I am very very fortunate that I am located in Pennsylvania near the local hub equine city of Unionville. While we are mostly known as the hot bed of Eventing (Home to Boyd Martin, Phillip Dutton, Bruce Davidson, Jennie Brannigan and many more) we still are known for other Equestrian celebrities as well. While the show jumping presence here is quite light comparatively I am very easily able to compete at shows within 3 hours and under all year. Now I still do choose to go a bit further for some nicer shows sometimes but I don't have the long hauls here that I had when I lived in Los Angeles. Out west in the wrong area you can be looking at 4-8 hours one way easy. Most barns have dealt with this by investing in a living quarters trailer. Basically a trailer that comes with a bed, pull out sofa and the like. It has kitchens, bathrooms with showers and power hookups to make life easier.

It's funny you mention the white fence lines. The Kentucky Horse Park, home to the annual 4* (Which used to be called the Rolex 3 Day Event but has been renamed this year to the Land Rover Three Day Event) has just shifted their iconic white fence lines to the more usual black fence lines. It's been reported this was a huge annual savings on upkeep.

I have to say I love everything about your horse market. The only thing that I notice more quickly is that some sellers might be better off if they understood that a picture of a horse jumping in poor form, even over a bigger fence, is not the best first impression to make to a buyer. Admittedly my husband is a former professional photographer and for that I am spoiled, but here we are constantly trying to teach sellers that there absolutely is such a thing as a bad first impression and a good one. Having spent more time on Horsequest, HorseScout, H&H listings, Irish Horse gateway and many more, I can now grasp that this is an international challenge no doubt made worse by cell phone cameras. Really folks.... don't post the bad shots. :) Less shots with better form is a much better option.


I've been dying to ask from earlier comments, what is a horse with a 'knot in it's leg?"

Em
 
Really fascinating insight into the US, thank you Em.

A horse with its legs in knots has momentarily lost its coordination and is placing the feet on the floor in the wrong order or disrupted rhythm. It's a common UK saying, I posted about my own horse doing it a month ago, and bucking to get himself out of it and giving me a bloody nose!
 
Did you manage to get over to Belgium too? I’d be interested to know how that compared.

We’ve just had our 4th in a row fail X-rays. It’s getting tedious!
 
ycbm said:
Really fascinating insight into the US, thank you Em.

A horse with its legs in knots has momentarily lost its coordination and is placing the feet on the floor in the wrong order or disrupted rhythm. It's a common UK saying, I posted about my own horse doing it a month ago, and bucking to get himself out of it and giving me a bloody nose!
Click to expand...

Oh ok. It's just called Cross cantering here. Usually on horses lacking a lot of good flatwork, and sure some that may have issues as well. OUCH!!!! Bloody noses are not ideal!

ihatework said:
Did you manage to get over to Belgium too? I’d be interested to know how that compared.

We’ve just had our 4th in a row fail X-rays. It’s getting tedious!
Click to expand...

I did. 2 days in Belgium. 1 day spent looking at the last 4 on the video. And one day where my friend and I literally slept 12 hours catching up on sleep and letting the jet lag win. However we did get to the local tack shop (Horses2me) and went to downtown Brussels for a winter festival and dinner. It was wholly lovely and the driving and streets were a bit better in Belgium. In Ireland we did a poor job maximizing where we drove, so we logged about 11 hours in the car in 2 days in Ireland. Nowhere close to that much in Belgium.

I was told Belgian horses would be further along in their flatwork, but honestly with the 4 we saw I don't know that'd I would say that was noticeably true. The fence hopper was poorly responsive, but the 3 others were very talented. Just as the Irish ones we tried were, with the possible exception of the small mare and the 5 yr old with 5 months training.

Em
 
Northern Hare said:
This has to be my favourite ever thread on H&H - it's great to hear about our horse market from a totally different perspective!

Thanks also for responding with such a detailed reply ref your thoughts on the chestnut mare (No. 1) - it is really interesting to hear how chestnut mares are perceived across the pond. In the UK, there's is always the usual "chestnut mare" comment but not to the extent that it would put me off buying a good one if it came to it.
Click to expand...

agree, really interesting and :eek3: :eek3: about the prices over there, *now* I understand why my OH was keen for me to sell Kira when some American buyers he knew were looking for a section D :D :D She must be worth a fortune :D:D:D

Funny how the chestnut mare thing crosses the international boundaries isn't it. People look at me like I'm mad having just bought a second one :wink3: I just think I got a nice horse :)
 
Oh ok. It's just called Cross cantering here. Usually on horses lacking a lot of good flatwork, and sure some that may have issues as well.
Click to expand...


I suspect that's what we call cantering disunited. A horse can canter dusunited without tying its legs in knots. Some of them are quite good at it :D. Legs in knots is a serious lack of balance which would quickly make the horse fall over if it didn't sort itself out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top