I can't believe this!

[eahotson]

Bit of a rant. Quick suming up.Newbie becoming a bit of a serial barger out of the stable and not just with me.With the staff too. I get what certainly looks like a very effective trainer out yesterday to address this for the comfort and safety of all.Not one was in any way interested in what he did and it was suggested that she was so good yesterday because she had had some turnout (which is improving now).
He is coming out today so, had message from yard manager.Would I like Hattie kept in today so he could see her "Barging out". and would he lead her to the small arena rather than me.Using small arena because they are having a clinic in larger one.
They can keep her in for me but they have,at a stroke,removed my confidence in myself to learn to manage this situation and they are implying that while trainer might well manage himself he will never be able to teach me.
They have form.I have noticed before that if anyone has problems they are apt to stand on the sidelines and watch, making soothing noises but doing little.

 

[Berpisc]

You are paying for the trainer, so I would politely but firmly ignore the YM and concentrate on what you want to work on with the trainer.

 

[eahotson]

You are paying for the trainer, so I would politely but firmly ignore the YM and concentrate on what you want to work on with the trainer.

Thank you. I think I will do that.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Is this horse only getting turned out in an arena at the moment?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you. I think I will do that.

Yes, do. Is this really the right yard for you? Your yard staff should be helping to build your confidence not undermining you.

 

[ycbm]

If you’re at a yard where the yard staff have not been able to stop a small cob from learning to barge out of a stable with them, then I would move yards. That's horse handling 101. If they lead her out more than you, her behaviour is their fault.
.

 

[eahotson]

Yes, do. Is this really the right yard for you? Your yard staff should be helping to build your confidence not undermining you.

You are quite right.I have been there for some years.My old horse was such a sweetheart they had no complaints.When I got the Newbie I took her on because despite her age, she is still only four,she seemed very quiet (and my very experienced and honest instructor who came out with me agreed).The seller said she would always take her back and the yard was used to big young warm bloods, backing and breaking so you would think a four year old gypsy cob would be a piece of cake, right.
The staff couldn't ride her she was too dangerous.!! I and my trainer (riding) rode her.I got someone to start her hacking out for me and she reports back that she is very good,on her own, in company,at the back and in the front.
They have got over that now.Just.We took her to her first show the other weekend where she behaved very well and instead of just leading her around as we had intended instructor rode her in her first class.I didn't say anything when I got back as I knew what they really wanted to hear was that she had bucked,bolted and kicked the judge.
I think it is their own inadequacy that makes them easily threated by anyone else who may know more.

 

[eahotson]

If you’re at a yard where the yard staff have not been able to stop a small cob from learning to barge out of a stable with them, then I would move yards. That's horse handling 101. If they lead her out more than you, her behaviour is their fault.
.

Thank you very much and yes they do handle her more than me BUT NOTHING is ever their fault.

 

[eahotson]

Is this horse only getting turned out in an arena at the moment?

No she had alternate days, one in a field one in an arena.She was fine with that over the winter but I guess spring is coming now.Turnout is now everyday BUT she can't barge like that.It is dangerous to people and herself ultimately.

 

[eahotson]

Ground work trainer thinks that basically she is a safe nice little horse just lacking ground manners.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you very much and yes they do handle her more than me BUT NOTHING is ever their fault.

Find a new yard, where her wonderful qualities will be appreciated

ETA, we employed someone to put ours out on weekdays during one wet winter, we then spent every weekend re-establishing manners, as she just allowed them to do as they pleased. Honestly there are no more than 20 steps from our stables to the field gate, how she managed to let them be unruly in that short distance, I have no idea.

 

[eahotson]

Find a new yard, where her wonderful qualities will be appreciated

ETA, we employed someone to put ours out on weekdays during one wet winter, we then spent every weekend re-establishing manners, as she just allowed them to do as they pleased. Honestly there are no more than 20 steps from our stables to the field gate, how she managed to let them be unruly in that short distance, I have no idea.

She was obviously a better trainer than them!

 

[maya2008]

I would agree with the ‘find a new yard’ comments! Also, when trainer comes, ask the trainer who they think should lead your cob to the arena. They’re the one doing the leading training after all!!

You’re doing the right thing getting help, but your cob’s handling needs to be consistent or it just won’t work. Hence all the ‘move yards’ comments!!!

 

[eahotson]

I would agree with the ‘find a new yard’ comments! Also, when trainer comes, ask the trainer who they think should lead your cob to the arena. They’re the one doing the leading training after all!!

You’re doing the right thing getting help, but your cob’s handling needs to be consistent or it just won’t work. Hence all the ‘move yards’ comments!!!

Yes I know.I have been there a long time and I have had a few little niggles but basically been happy enough.Will have to think about this one though.If I can find somewhere more suitable I will though.

 

[Shilasdair]

Is she barging with the yard staff, you - or both?

 

[eahotson]

Is she barging with the yard staff, you - or both?

Both absolutely.Them more than me sometimes.One of the staff tells me quite cheerfully that her mare always barges in front of her into the stable when she is in season.

 

[Shilasdair]

Both absolutely.Them more than me sometimes.One of the staff tells me quite cheerfully that her mare always barges in front of her into the stable when she is in season.

Then you need to train the horse, AND all the people who will handle her. For horses to understand rules, they have to be consistent.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I understood their message as they're trying to be helpful by leaving the horse in for the trainer and asking if you/trainer will lead the horse out so they know if any staff is needed for this.
There must be other things going on if you felt that the message was demeaning and belittling so perhaps it's time to find somewhere else.

My cob learned all sorts of bad things at my previous yard , like they couldn't get his head collar off when turning out and said he'd need to be lead out in a chifney! And he couldn't be caught by anyone but me.
At the new yard , there has been zero problems from day one , he is polite and well mannered with new YO as he's always been with me. Probably because she's calm and kind and doesn't frighten my horse.
You might be surprised by the change if you move your horse.
The barginess might also ease off if the horse gets to be turned out in a paddock where she can express natural behaviour
The difference in my boy going from sand pen turn out alone to paddock turn out surrounded by other horses is immense.

 

[laura_nash]

Did the yard want you to buy something different, maybe something from them? It does sound like they are trying to sabotage your relationship with this horse and persuade you to get rid of her.

I don't know how long she was getting in the arena on her arena days, but that doesn't sound like a suitable environment for a four year old. She needs more turnout and people handling her who understand that everything they do with her is training her (it is with all horses of course, but even more so with younger ones where nothing is as established).

 

[eahotson]

Then you need to train the horse, AND all the people who will handle her. For horses to understand rules, they have to be consistent.

Ah but do they want to learn?That's the question.

 

[Shilasdair]

Ah but do they want to learn?That's the question.

There is no advantage to yard staff in being squished/barged by rude cobs - so why not?

 

[Wishfilly]

I'm sorry to read this after your positive update yesterday. I think it's definitely worth looking at other local yards to see if there is anywhere else you could try. I think cobs often learn to use their strength/bodyweight to get what they want and to get out of situations they don't want to be in.

I hope you're able to have a positive session with the trainer later- but I do think consistent handling is needed to address this!

 

[eahotson]

There is no advantage to yard staff in being squished/barged by rude cobs - so why not?

You tell me.I have noticed this in the horse world before.Some feel threatened by anyone who knows more than they do

 

[Shilasdair]

You tell me.I have noticed this in the horse world before.Some feel threatened by anyone who knows more than they do

To give a possible different interpretation of your yard manager's communications - they asked if you wanted her left in for your trainer - that's quite helpful.
They have asked that your trainer handle her as (by your own words) both you and the yard staff have trouble. They want him to lead her to the small arena, because he might not have problems with her - and they have a clinic on. No yard wants naughty cobs running around/behaving badly/disrupting a clinic.

I don't think this is a judgement on your abilities - they have never said your trainer will not be able to teach you - they just don't want trouble today.

If I were you, though, I'd get the trainer to show me what to do, then I'd make sure I was the only one to handle Hattie until she understood the rules. This might take a few weeks. Then I'd show the yard person/people what to do.

If you have been happy at this yard for years, and its convenient for you, I'd hesitate to make too much of this.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would give the the horse more work .
Tired horses tend to behave better .

 

[AmyMay]

I, too, don’t read the communication from your YO as unhelpful.

 

[Red-1]

To give a possible different interpretation of your yard manager's communications - they asked if you wanted her left in for your trainer - that's quite helpful.
They have asked that your trainer handle her as (by your own words) both you and the yard staff have trouble. They want him to lead her to the small arena, because he might not have problems with her - and they have a clinic on. No yard wants naughty cobs running around/behaving badly/disrupting a clinic.

I don't think this is a judgement on your abilities - they have never said your trainer will not be able to teach you - they just don't want trouble today.

If I were you, though, I'd get the trainer to show me what to do, then I'd make sure I was the only one to handle Hattie until she understood the rules. This might take a few weeks. Then I'd show the yard person/people what to do.

If you have been happy at this yard for years, and its convenient for you, I'd hesitate to make too much of this.

This was my take on it too. I think leaving her in so she displays the behaviour that you hope to get on top of is a good one.

I also agree that, if there is a clinic on with paying clients, they don't want a bargy cob and associated training, right outside the clinic arena, disturbing their lessons.

However, I would also look for a new yard as you are obviously not comfortable there and don't get the back up you need. Also, I would be very surprised if someone from the yard didn't see this thread and take offence at some of your comments. When they do, it won't make for a pleasant atmosphere!

Playing devil's advocate, when I was training young horses, the handling was sorted right from the start, before I would expect staff (most likely inexperienced and on minimum wage in your case), to handle the horse. You are doing the right thing by training, but the yard staff aren't trainers, or paid to be such. Such like I expect to train my horse to accept a farrier before expecting the farrier to shoe, not expect the farrier to manage then complain after the event if he has trouble.

I also think cobs can be tricky to train, having trained all manner of horses. They have strength in necks and spirit.

I was very supportive of your first thread about this and happy for your update. This thread and comments reads rather petulantly though, which is OK if you need to vent, but I do think that they will likely see the comments and be hurt. I would say it is unwise.

I do agree with a different yard though, although for qualified, experienced and competent staff, it may cost more than the current set up.

 

[Goldenstar]

I agree with the above .
My advice to anyone working as a groom is it’s not your job to put your self at risk managing someone else’s badly trained horse .

 

[Grassy]

I agree with the above .
My advice to anyone working as a groom is it’s not your job to put your self at risk managing someone else’s badly trained horse .

When I worked as a freelance groom a lady employed me to bring her 3 horses in to put to bed. First day at the job the big gelding, probably 16.3 reared up when I put his headcollar on to catch him, right up vertical & striking out. I called the lady, she replied “oh yes, you need your hat on for that one” I got them in to the stables, billed her for that day & said I wouldn’t be back!

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, when I worked for a dressage yard, I found myself being dragged to the turn-out field by YO's 17hh warmbloods, which would throw their shoulders into you, then just take off. Not a whiff of a ground manner between them. YO said, "These horses are not like your horse. They are too smart to be trained like that." You mean they're not trained at all? No f*&ckin' sh^*&t. I didn't say that, though. YO rarely handled them himself. The grooms did all the tacking up, cooling out, untacking, and shifting horses around, so what did he care? Grooms/working students were cheap and dispensable, so squashing the odd one wasn't a problem.