I can't believe this!

[Wishfilly]

I think people are being maybe a little unfair here- yes, there is an issue but OP has got in a trainer to work on the issue. She's not just ignoring it and expecting yard staff to deal with it. It sounds like the issue has been getting progressively worse, rather than the pony being difficult since arrival and yard staff being expected to deal with it. And possibly yard staff are not helping with the issue.

I think if the YO feels staff are unsafe, they need to communicate that clearly to the OP.

But I do think it seems like the relationship has soured, so finding a new yard may be a good idea. It *might* also be the case that if the pony is feeling anxious, a quieter yard might improve things.

 

[jnb]

I mean this kindly OP, but i do not consider the amount of turnout your cob as a 4yo is getting, is anywhere near enough. And knowing cobs as I do, I'm not surprised she's bargy, probably wants some liberty.
Young horses need friends, freedom and forage (tbh ALL horses need that).
Are there any fields locally /yards with better turnout ? Yes your mare needs work with manners perhaps, but mentally and physically, proper turnout would almost certainly help. Was she in or out in her previous home?

 

[Highmileagecob]

Ah ha a gypsy cob! Baseball cap on back to front and can of lager in the hoof! Cobs and natives are wily little devils, but super quick learners. If they think they can get away with barging and pulling, they will do, but if you can do some groundwork and praise the right behaviour they will remember their manners! Good luck, I hope she turns into super pony very soon.

 

[eahotson]

Did the yard want you to buy something different, maybe something from them? It does sound like they are trying to sabotage your relationship with this horse and persuade you to get rid of her.

I don't know how long she was getting in the arena on her arena days, but that doesn't sound like a suitable environment for a four year old. She needs more turnout and people handling her who understand that everything they do with her is training her (it is with all horses of course, but even more so with younger ones where nothing is as established).

This was my take on it too. I think leaving her in so she displays the behaviour that you hope to get on top of is a good one.

I also agree that, if there is a clinic on with paying clients, they don't want a bargy cob and associated training, right outside the clinic arena, disturbing their lessons.

However, I would also look for a new yard as you are obviously not comfortable there and don't get the back up you need. Also, I would be very surprised if someone from the yard didn't see this thread and take offence at some of your comments. When they do, it won't make for a pleasant atmosphere!

Playing devil's advocate, when I was training young horses, the handling was sorted right from the start, before I would expect staff (most likely inexperienced and on minimum wage in your case), to handle the horse. You are doing the right thing by training, but the yard staff aren't trainers, or paid to be such. Such like I expect to train my horse to accept a farrier before expecting the farrier to shoe, not expect the farrier to manage then complain after the event if he has trouble.

I also think cobs can be tricky to train, having trained all manner of horses. They have strength in necks and spirit.

I was very supportive of your first thread about this and happy for your update. This thread and comments reads rather petulantly though, which is OK if you need to vent, but I do think that they will likely see the comments and be hurt. I would say it is unwise.

I do agree with a different yard though, although for qualified, experienced and competent staff, it may cost more than the current set up.

OK Well my riding trainer did a little work initially and I offered to pay for her to do a session with the staff.I was told they were on top of it.Not all of the staff are inexperienced minimum waged staff.

 

[eahotson]

I mean this kindly OP, but i do not consider the amount of turnout your cob as a 4yo is getting, is anywhere near enough. And knowing cobs as I do, I'm not surprised she's bargy, probably wants some liberty.
Young horses need friends, freedom and forage (tbh ALL horses need that).
Are there any fields locally /yards with better turnout ? Yes your mare needs work with manners perhaps, but mentally and physically, proper turnout would almost certainly help. Was she in or out in her previous home?

Turn out is now good,approx six hours daily and will increase to overnight very soon.

 

[eahotson]

Ah ha a gypsy cob! Baseball cap on back to front and can of lager in the hoof! Cobs and natives are wily little devils, but super quick learners. If they think they can get away with barging and pulling, they will do, but if you can do some groundwork and praise the right behaviour they will remember their manners! Good luck, I hope she turns into super pony very soon.

Thank you.

 

[eahotson]

To give a possible different interpretation of your yard manager's communications - they asked if you wanted her left in for your trainer - that's quite helpful.
They have asked that your trainer handle her as (by your own words) both you and the yard staff have trouble. They want him to lead her to the small arena, because he might not have problems with her - and they have a clinic on. No yard wants naughty cobs running around/behaving badly/disrupting a clinic.

I don't think this is a judgement on your abilities - they have never said your trainer will not be able to teach you - they just don't want trouble today.

If I were you, though, I'd get the trainer to show me what to do, then I'd make sure I was the only one to handle Hattie until she understood the rules. This might take a few weeks. Then I'd show the yard person/people what to do.

If you have been happy at this yard for years, and its convenient for you, I'd hesitate to make too much of this.

I offered to have my riding instructor who they know well to do a session with them.I offered very nicely and very politely.It was declined as they said they "were on top of it all".

 

[eahotson]

Yeah, when I worked for a dressage yard, I found myself being dragged to the turn-out field by YO's 17hh warmbloods, which would throw their shoulders into you, then just take off. Not a whiff of a ground manner between them. YO said, "These horses are not like your horse. They are too smart to be trained like that." You mean they're not trained at all? No f*&ckin' sh^*&t. I didn't say that, though. YO rarely handled them himself. The grooms did all the tacking up, cooling out, untacking, and shifting horses around, so what did he care? Grooms/working students were cheap and dispensable, so squashing the odd one wasn't a problem.

I know! But I never took that attitude to be honest.I got another trainer out to help me for sure but also the yard staff (I don't want them hurt) and the horse who could also get hurt.

 

[magicmoments]

Turn out is now good,approx six hours daily and will increase to overnight very soon.

6 hours is really not much at this time of year, although fortunately as you say will be overnight soon. My 18 year old Tb is keen to get out after being in for the day, and she does like to come in for some hay and a nap. Hopefully if you find another yard, along with help from your trainer and more turnout you should restore manners.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

When I worked with horses we had a few that barged out and tank you to the field, we taught them to have a headslip with a bit or chiffney put on over the door, it does stop the barging out and I found they walked sensibly to the field it's much safer to just do this everyday especially if its a horses your expected to look after.

 

[eahotson]

When I worked with horses we had a few that barged out and tank you to the field, we taught them to have a headslip with a bit or chiffney put on over the door, it does stop the barging out and I found they walked sensibly to the field it's much safer to just do this everyday especially if its a horses your expected to look after.

I gave them a western head collar to use but I don't think they do.

 

[Shilasdair]

I offered to have my riding instructor who they know well to do a session with them.I offered very nicely and very politely.It was declined as they said they "were on top of it all".

Again - you were willing to pay the riding instructor - but who was paying the yard staff for their time during the session? Did you want the yard to pay, or for them to attend for free? That might have been why they had to decline.

 

[ycbm]

Not answering anyone in particular, just the flavour of the thread so far.

The yard willingly took on a 4 year old as a livery with an owner whose capabilities as regards training horses they already knew over a lengthy period. Surely it's not unreasonable to expect the yard to work with the horse and the owner to ensure the horse gets the kind of consistent handling that means it doesn't barge out of a stable?
.

 

[Shilasdair]

Not answering anyone in particular, just the flavour of the thread so far.

The yard willingly took on a 4 year old as a livery with an owner whose capabilities as regards training horses they already knew over a lengthy period. Surely it's not unreasonable to expect the yard to work with the horse and the owner to ensure the horse gets the kind of consistent handling that means it doesn't barge out of a stable?
.

But you can't expect people to work for free.

I also slightly wonder why the 'riding instructor' has now been replaced by a 'trainer'? Or is it the same person, OP?

 

[ycbm]

But you can't expect people to work for free

But you should be able to expect that their employer will provide them with the basic training to lead a 4 year old cob if they take in 4 year old cobs as livery. This is groom training at only 1 step up from the most basic level, isn't it?

 

[eahotson]

Again - you were willing to pay the riding instructor - but who was paying the yard staff for their time during the session? Did you want the yard to pay, or for them to attend for free? That might have been why they had to decline.

Do you know what.If they like I will pay that too.I don't mind.They never asked.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Again - you were willing to pay the riding instructor - but who was paying the yard staff for their time during the session? Did you want the yard to pay, or for them to attend for free? That might have been why they had to decline.

If the yard employs staff who can't safely handle a bargy 4yo cob, then the yard should be grateful for the chance for more training for their staff, and pay up for it accordingly.

The skills learned in handling *this* bargy cob will stand the staff in good stead in the future when handling other horses.

ETA I see that the OP has started another thread on this *confused*.

 

[Otherwise]

If the yard employs staff who can't safely handle a bargy 4yo cob, then the yard should be grateful for the chance for more training for their staff, and pay up for it accordingly.

The skills learned in handling *this* bargy cob will stand the staff in good stead in the future when handling other horses.

The thing is that requires the yard to actually care about training and improving their staff, and it needs them to give the staff time for this training to happen. I've briefly worked on a couple of yards where this wouldn't be the case and they definitely wouldn't have paid for it.

 

[eahotson]

If the yard employs staff who can't safely handle a bargy 4yo cob, then the yard should be grateful for the chance for more training for their staff, and pay up for it accordingly.

The skills learned in handling *this* bargy cob will stand the staff in good stead in the future when handling other horses.

ETA I see that the OP has started another thread on this *confused*.

Just an update,

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I gave them a western head collar to use but I don't think they do.

I don't know what a western head collar is?

But as someone who has run several yards I always had a headslip with a bit or chiffney and a chain just incase I needed it for horses that needed a bit of extra control.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Not answering anyone in particular, just the flavour of the thread so far.

The yard willingly took on a 4 year old as a livery with an owner whose capabilities as regards training horses they already knew over a lengthy period. Surely it's not unreasonable to expect the yard to work with the horse and the owner to ensure the horse gets the kind of consistent handling that means it doesn't barge out of a stable?
.

I maintain that if a reasonably well-trained horse misbehaves when you are leading it, it is more than likely your fault. OP's horse's behaviour seems to have deteriorated over time, while, as I understand it, the staff have been dealing with the horse more frequently than OP has. Which leads me to believe that the staff have caused the problem, probably through a lack of consistency.

 

[ycbm]

I maintain that if a reasonably well-trained horse misbehaves when you are leading it, it is more than likely your fault. OP's horse's behaviour seems to have deteriorated over time, while, as I understand it, the staff have been dealing with the horse more frequently than OP has. Which leads me to believe that the staff have caused the problem, probably through a lack of consistency.

Yup, that's my take too.
.