I feel like there would be a market for more expensive DIY? What would you pay?

[awelshandawarmblood]

I pay £160pm so approx £40 a week for all year 24/7 turnout in a post & rail field with trough & shelter - my boy is out 24/7 all year & I track the field myself in summer, a nice brick built stable, tack room & storage area, toilet & kitchen facilities, outdoor school with jumps, horse walker useage & unlimited hay all included. Hacking is also straight into forestry & I could go all day on the loops we have. Turnout is my number 1 priority & the reason I am where I am. My last yard was over double a month for part/DIY combo & we had winter turnout restricted to between approx 9am & 2pm . . . . if it wasn't wet, in individual postage stamps. My boy is doing so much better physically & mentally with the better turnout. Too many yards take on too many horses without the land to cater for their needs due to money thats the bottom line.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

You can only charge what people can afford to pay. There are lots of factors but particularly, number of people looking for yards vs yards available and the local salaries achievable will affect what you can charge.

Around here the prices start from around £160 a month for simple DIY. I pay £175 for two individual paddocks, large stable, lots of storage, heated rug and tack room, large partially lit school and fabulous hacking. There’s only just enough grazing, I would prefer more for winter. The only way I’d be able to pay more would be to have more grazing so they could stay out more over winter and I could feed less hay and use less bedding. I personally wouldn’t want to pay more to have for example, a cross-country course, horse-Walker or solarium because much as I’d like them I can live without them.

 

[little_critter]

I suppose that because of the nature of diy livery, the liveries need to live fairly close to the yard would there be enough diy liveries in a local area who are willing to pay a premium to make a premium livery yard viable?

 

[chocolategirl]

I would agree. Certainly where I live there is a real gap in the market. Lots of standard DIY yards but all have their issues. I would give my right arm for a better quality DIY yard and would certainly be happy to pay an increased amount to get this. I would pay perhaps £60 a week (maybe slightly more but it would start becoming too expensive for me) but would want decent turnout with decent fencing, a really decent arena (not necessarily indoors), small ish, more intimate yard, fairly good hacking, lorry parking, kettle and loo. Oh and a friendly, knowledgeable YM would be a bonus. Not bothered about indoor school, walker, washbox etc. Currently pay £32 for a flimsy stable, rotten partial fencing, non existent remaining fencing with knackered 20 Yr old elec tape and brittle posts, 2 mostly unusable arenas, and a yard owner who is extremely unpredictable and you keep out of her way at all costs. There's no loo and lorry parking and arena lights are charged extra.

It’s clearly a regional issue because you could here what you’re already getting, but for the price you’re paying now!?‍?

 

[Theocat]

There's certainly a market, but it's a small one, and you might find those willing to pay more for the right yard all have slightly different interpretations of "right"! Good hacking and turnout are usually going to mean you aren't very close to a big city, and in smaller towns and rural areas you have a smaller number of people and thus a smaller market. You'll get those who want quality arenas with lighting, some who want jumps, some who like the hot horse showers...

In principle, it's a good idea, but whether any one yard can attract enough people willing to pay is another question!

 

[Muddywellies]

It’s clearly a regional issue because you could here what you’re already getting, but for the price you’re paying now!?‍?

Yes I would agree, it varies hugely between areas. Here there is a real lack of decent yards, but lots of shoddy or poorly run yards, and we pay quite a lot. Incl my lorry parking I pay £40 for a terrible yard with a crackpot yard owner. If it wasn't for work, I would consider relocating.

 

[Lammy]

Previously I would have happily paid more for DIY if it meant I got reasonably good facilities and a good amount of winter turnout (at least 6 hours daily is the minimum I would consider). Sadly, at least round here, paying more doesn’t mean better turn out options!

I paid £55 a week for;
Standard stable
Limited Hay and straw
Outdoor and indoor (if it wasn’t booked up)
Horse walker
24/7 turnout in summer
Limited on site hacking
You were allowed to turnout in winter however it was probably only a quarter of an acre and had 6-7 horses on it!! And it quite literally turned into a swamp, my horses spent 6 weeks in before we found a place to move to.

Currently I pay £32 pw for;
Large stable
Unlimited hay and straw
Large well surfaced outdoor
Large field with 3 horses in each max
Miles of onsite hacking and 4 big fields that are still good to ride in even now.
24/7 turnout in summer
November - March in overnight but can turn out for as long as you like during the day.


Why would I pay more for less? Just thinking of a couple of other “high end diy yards” nearby and only one I think of will actually give you decent winter turnout. Everything else is either postage stamp sized pieces of land and individual or the fields are closed for a few months a year. I’d be paying £20-£30 more a week on these yards and would be doing a lot more mucking out!

 

[JoannaC]

Livery prices are crazy cheap and consequently in order to make any money they will become overcrowded. I am far more aware now, having my own land, of the time and effort it takes to maintain and I can understand the desire to not see your fields all poached up. I find myself thinking ooh shall I bring them in as it's going to rain but instead I've actually given them the run of the whole place at the moment with free access into the barn and it is far less muddy this year despite being on clay and the non stop rain! Previously I had a friends two large horses with two of my own and now just have my three and one less horse has made a huge difference and the fact mine are smaller and that they are free range. I do think there will be a market for more land per horse but whether people will want to afford it is a different matter. Lots of horse owners (not all) would rather spend their money on matchy matchy shit than livery costs even if the horse would be better off.

 

[HashRouge]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but what’s the going rate then for grass DIY? Large fields 24/7 turnout. With or without stable and small yard price. Both no electric. Fences, field and hedges are maintained and good riding Into woodlands, moors and bridle paths? Person can electric fence the field however they want be it track system or strip grazing. Troff and tap. Sole use and mixed use prices for that kind of set up?

It will depend on your area but do not underprice this. A lot of people expect grass livery to be £20 a week maximum, but the set up you describe should be very popular and people will pay a premium for this. I was paying £35 per week per horse for exactly what you describe but with services included (twice daily checks/ feeding/ rugs etc) in Sussex but my YO has recently (and very fairly) just out her prices up. I am happy to pay it because my horses are happy and healthy and I can't imagine a better lifestyle for them.

 

[HashRouge]

Currently I pay £32 pw for;
Large stable
Unlimited hay and straw
Large well surfaced outdoor
Large field with 3 horses in each max
Miles of onsite hacking and 4 big fields that are still good to ride in even now.
24/7 turnout in summer
November - March in overnight but can turn out for as long as you like during the day.


Why would I pay more for less? Just thinking of a couple of other “high end diy yards” nearby and only one I think of will actually give you decent winter turnout. Everything else is either postage stamp sized pieces of land and individual or the fields are closed for a few months a year. I’d be paying £20-£30 more a week on these yards and would be doing a lot more mucking out!

I don't think you should be paying more for less - but I do think you should be paying more for what you are getting, especially with the unlimited hay and straw. Obviously it's the yard owner's choice though! Would you pay more if they put their prices up?

 

[Lammy]

I don't think you should be paying more for less - but I do think you should be paying more for what you are getting, especially with the unlimited hay and straw. Obviously it's the yard owner's choice though! Would you pay more if they put their prices up?

I would as it’s an absolute bargain and I’m aware of that but also I should state it’s full DIY there are no services. You sort your own fencing bar the boundary fence, we liveries rake and harrow the school between us and the YO doesn’t come to see us unless they need to tell us something about the yard/farm etc. It’s on a working agric farm so there’s always someone about on a tractor who can get hay/straw down in the barn if needed but that’s about it really.

If they put their prices up by £10 pw tomorrow I would pay it because the yard is lovely. However my point was that I’ve paid the higher end amounts for DIY livery and certainly haven’t got a better deal. So yes while I agree with the OP that there is a demand for more expensive DIY livery yards with good facilities and decent turnout the reality is that places will charge a higher price because they have a big school and a horse walker regardless of whether their winter turnout is sub standard.

 

[Leo Walker]

It will depend on your area but do not underprice this. A lot of people expect grass livery to be £20 a week maximum, but the set up you describe should be very popular and people will pay a premium for this. I was paying £35 per week per horse for exactly what you describe but with services included (twice daily checks/ feeding/ rugs etc) in Sussex but my YO has recently (and very fairly) just out her prices up. I am happy to pay it because my horses are happy and healthy and I can't imagine a better lifestyle for them.

With no electric this isnt going to be a premium rate yard. Mucking out with no lights is utterly awful! Theres also no school so this is limited to retired horses or people who dont work and only want to hack.

 

[hellfire]

It will depend on your area but do not underprice this. A lot of people expect grass livery to be £20 a week maximum, but the set up you describe should be very popular and people will pay a premium for this. I was paying £35 per week per horse for exactly what you describe but with services included (twice daily checks/ feeding/ rugs etc) in Sussex but my YO has recently (and very fairly) just out her prices up. I am happy to pay it because my horses are happy and healthy and I can't imagine a better lifestyle for them.

I’m too cheap then I guess. Been charging £10 per week per horse and we sell our own hay to them for £25 a large round bale. No wonder they are so happy. I’ve not a clue what people charge else where as all livery or private in the area. Was debating turning another part of the farm over to more DIY people. I’d never let too many on a smaller amount of ground. Our most recent lady likes to keep her horse separate. She’s got a large 3ac paddock to herself for £10p w per horse. She has no stable but water and a storage shed. Another 1 stable and 4ac all year split into 3 paddocks and then a additional 6 in winter to stop poaching. As farming cattle and poultry pays crappy money now I need to diversities but not sure if I want the hassle of livery or running a yard as done that years ago when I ran a local yard before I took over the family farm full time. Need to do some research I think before I delve into this further. Always got people asking for fields to rent here. I think it’s because the riding is so good and not to far outside Plymouth.

 

[SBJT]

My yard is £32 per week, we have turnou every day no matter what, with 24/7 in summer, and I struggle to fill my stables sometimes?‍ Brand new 40x40 outdoor and other fab facilities. The yard a bit further up the road doesn’t turn out hardly at all in winter, has a rubbish flooded outdoor, is twice as many horses as mine, but is full all the time! I think people love to complain about the lack of turnout, but from experience, a lot just put up with it because they’re scared if they move, they won’t like the new yard maybe? In 25 years I’ve never kept horses in. So many yards advertise all year turn out, but a lot renege on it and use the weather as an excuse ?

I was curious if 24/7 turnout in the UK is a thing people do.

I’ve always done outdoor board and my boy seems to prefer it. Especially with his respiratory issues I don’t think I’d ever want indoor board so long as he had a shelter and hay.

 

[Annagain]

I pay £110 every 4 weeks in summer, £170 in winter to include haylage. We have a 20x40 school with one floodlight that’s a bit puny but does a job for a quick ride of a winter’s evening. We have 24/7 turnout in summer and every day for about 12 hours in winter and too much grass if anything. Yes, there are a few niggles on my yard (nowhere’s perfect) but overall I think it’s excellent value and it’s as good as you’ll get in my area. the hacking’s not great but you’d nee to move 30 mins away for better. There are more expensive yards but that seems to buy you more facilities rather than more turnout which is the most important thing to me.

 

[HashRouge]

I’m too cheap then I guess. Been charging £10 per week per horse and we sell our own hay to them for £25 a large round bale. No wonder they are so happy. I’ve not a clue what people charge else where as all livery or private in the area. Was debating turning another part of the farm over to more DIY people. I’d never let too many on a smaller amount of ground. Our most recent lady likes to keep her horse separate. She’s got a large 3ac paddock to herself for £10p w per horse. She has no stable but water and a storage shed. Another 1 stable and 4ac all year split into 3 paddocks and then a additional 6 in winter to stop poaching. As farming cattle and poultry pays crappy money now I need to diversities but not sure if I want the hassle of livery or running a yard as done that years ago when I ran a local yard before I took over the family farm full time. Need to do some research I think before I delve into this further. Always got people asking for fields to rent here. I think it’s because the riding is so good and not to far outside Plymouth.

Bearing in mind you have no electric or school, I still think you could be charging double that (at least)! Always hard to put the price up once people are already on the yard though.

 

[holeymoley]

I think we pay more up here. I pay £35 per week diy and that’s a stable and field nothing else. Well an outdoor arena. Other yard is £41 per week and includes turnout.

Everywhere you buy your own hay/haylage bedding etc all over and
above.

Theres probably cheaper somewhere in the region but usually there’s a reason for that- rubbish fields, rubbish stables, clientele, no arena etc

 

[hellfire]

I’d not put it up for the people here right now. Would feel unfair. Just looking at turning another part of the farm over to DIY. I have a school but only a grass school for my own use. I’d love to build a proper one which will be done if we go ahead with more DIY. I don’t use it enough to warrant the expense.

Bearing in mind you have no electric or school, I still think you could be charging double that (at least)! Always hard to put the price up once people are already on the yard though.

 

[Shilasdair]

In the past, livery yards used to provide forage as part of the livery - so either they had enough grass for each animal or they supplied the hay. It wasn't in their interests to overstock the land.
Now, livery yards don't provide forage - so it is in their interests to stock as many as they can cram onto the acreage, keep them stabled as much as possible (the extra costs in labour, bedding, hay are met by the horse owner) to maximise their returns.
I think what is actually happening is that horse owners are getting fed up with it, and not replacing their horses when they depart so the whole equine population will reduce.

 

[Leo Walker]

In the past, livery yards used to provide forage as part of the livery - so either they had enough grass for each animal or they supplied the hay. It wasn't in their interests to overstock the land.
Now, livery yards don't provide forage - so it is in their interests to stock as many as they can cram onto the acreage, keep them stabled as much as possible (the extra costs in labour, bedding, hay are met by the horse owner) to maximise their returns.
I think what is actually happening is that horse owners are getting fed up with it, and not replacing their horses when they depart so the whole equine population will reduce.

When I first started out owning, 30 odd years ago no one included forage. I think the first time I found a yard doing that was fairly recently, so maybe its area dependant. And while some horse owners may be getting fed up theres more and more people buying. There seems to be way more horses and livery yards about than there ever was, so again maybe area dependant? I know numbers were decling not so long ago but no idea what the actual figures are now to be fair.

 

[Shilasdair]

When I first started out owning, 30 odd years ago no one included forage. I think the first time I found a yard doing that was fairly recently, so maybe its area dependant. And while some horse owners may be getting fed up theres more and more people buying. There seems to be way more horses and livery yards about than there ever was, so again maybe area dependant? I know numbers were decling not so long ago but no idea what the actual figures are now to be fair.

According to the BETA survey (2019) 'There are 374,000 horse-owning households in Britain – a drop from the 446,000 in 2015'.

That's quite a remarkable drop in a few years.

 

[SO1]

I think I might be on yard 1 as a part livery.

When I used to be on DIY on a different yard several years back I would definitely have paid more to have regular reliable services or the holy grail for those with good doers which is track system. Turnout is very important I would not livery at a yard with no winter turnout. It is not nice for the horses and you have to be totally dedicated to ensuring that they get enough time out of their stable every day and if you work full time, get sick or want to have any life beyond horses in the winter that could be quite challenging.

DIY yards that offer all year round turnout where there is actually grass can probably charge more than those which don't, as having grass and turnout means that the increased livery fee could be offset against the higher hay and bedding costs at yards with no winter turnout.

I also agree that a more expensive yard does not always mean better turnout. I would have thought pure DIY yards would need to be flexible with good turnout to accommodate that most people need to work in order to finance their horses and that if the horses were not living out then they would need to come to the yard to turnout and catch in outside normal working hours or during their lunch breaks.

Climate change I think will also be an issue if we have wetter winters more space per horse may be needed to prevent churning up of land in the winter.

Local yard 1:
20m covered walker, large outdoor floodlit school with poles/jumps, ok hacking, all year turnout (in winter limited until 2.30pm each day) Available as extras: lorry parking, solarium, hay steamer, hydrotherapy spa and water treadmill.
£52 per week DIY however only offers assisted DIY as a minimum (bring in/turnout mon-fri and poo picking) at £75 per week

Local yard 2
2 outdoor schools, can't remember if lit or not
All year turnout
Reasonable hacking
£270 pcm including 1 bring in or turnout each day, lorry parking extra

Local yard 3
1 outdoor school
Horse walker
Good onsite hacking round farm, offsite hacking good if you want a long hack
£330 pcm including 1 bring in or turnout each day and ad-lib hay, lorry parking extra

Basic DIY where I am is £175pcm, a bring in or turnout £1.50 a time. Our fields are overstocked, not fabulously maintained, school is ok but too deep for my liking, limited hacking.
You get what you pay for.

The people all seem plenty ok at yards 1,2 and 3, but the yard I'm actually on they're really lovely and first yard I've been properly happy on in some time where I am, it's the only reason I'm there tbh as by the time you add in large amounts of hay due to the poor grazing, boxing up for schools and hacking the costs aren't too dissimilar really (it just looks less scary on paper in smaller amounts!)

Back in Surrey DIY seemed to be about £250pcm for stable, grazing and school with good hacking and the yards I can think of all had all year turnout that was reasonably well looked after.

 

[rara007]

We had a cracking yard like this near here. All weather surfaces turnout, plenty of real grass turnout, 2x 60x20 waxed arenas. Hacking straight off road. Small RS, full and a decent chunk of DIY livery. It went bust quickly...

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I'm really quite horrified by how many yards/owners just accept no turnout through winter months. This is extremely detrimental to the horses' mental and physical wellbeing.

 

[be positive]

I'm really quite horrified by how many yards/owners just accept no turnout through winter months. This is extremely detrimental to the horses' mental and physical wellbeing.

As a YO so am I, I have rarely restricted turnout and even when I have it has been the odd day in due to snow for safety reasons or I bring in early when the ground is very wet before the horses start to churn up the gateways too much, I used to have up to 12 here in winter and the ground just about coped, it recovers well in spring and they all had 24/7 turnout from as early as possible always by mid April until the end of Oct maybe a bit later.
Having had a cut back there have been only 7 on the 16 acres for the past 2 winters and the difference is obvious, far less poaching, more grass, I hardly need to feed hay outside and as of yesterday 5 are out all the time, 2 had been in at night or box rest for a few weeks but have gone out again, the 2 that are in at night are in for their own good rather than needing to be to preserve the field.

I am probably better off with less here, doing less work, using far less hay/ feed/ bedding and having a few that pay a sensible price and appreciate what they do get rather than filling the boxes and having a higher income on paper, I have had one delivery of hay/ straw and just bought the second bag of grassnuts so far this winter despite it being so wet, although I did have to buy my oldie a new rug as his was not up to the job.

 

[milliepops]

I am probably better off with less here, doing less work, using far less hay/ feed/ bedding and having a few that pay a sensible price and appreciate what they do get rather than filling the boxes and having a higher income on paper

I wonder how many YOs have done those sums.

The place i left to go to where I am now, seemed to be going for the opposite approach, with more and more stables but the same amount of land set aside for the horses (working farm). I had about half an acre per horse of really poor grass (looked green but was mostly moss) and so the fields didn't stand up to any bad weather at all, so turnout was heavily restricted in winter.

As a client I would rather she had put the prices up and reduced the number of horses, but clients can only vote with their feet, not make the business decisions.

 

[Widgeon]

In the past, livery yards used to provide forage as part of the livery - so either they had enough grass for each animal or they supplied the hay. It wasn't in their interests to overstock the land.

This is a point that has also occurred to me - "DIY"s on our yard pay £60 per week, including daily turnout (every single day regardless of weather - YO brings in and turns out to maintain a proper routine), ad lib hay, straw bedding and basic feed. I pay the same despite having a 14hh pony who is out 24/7 with hay. He stays out because he and his buddy are only small and shod in front, so much less wear on the field. Our YO is very switched on and the date the big ones start coming in at night varies each year depending on weather (it was November this year) - because she includes hay and bedding in the price, it's in her interests to keep the number of horses relatively low.

The yard isn't fancy but all the basics - floodlit outdoor school, hot water hose pipe, big stables, nice off road hacking - are there. I can't understand why there aren't more people lining up for a space, but there aren't, by any means. I suspect it's just too far from local towns to have a well stocked catchment area!

 

[Leo Walker]

According to the BETA survey (2019) 'There are 374,000 horse-owning households in Britain – a drop from the 446,000 in 2015'.

That's quite a remarkable drop in a few years.

wow that's a substantial drop! I don't think its a bad thing, so long as the number of horses also drops so supply and demand are balanced

 

[be positive]

I wonder how many YOs have done those sums.

The place i left to go to where I am now, seemed to be going for the opposite approach, with more and more stables but the same amount of land set aside for the horses (working farm). I had about half an acre per horse of really poor grass (looked green but was mostly moss) and so the fields didn't stand up to any bad weather at all, so turnout was heavily restricted in winter.

As a client I would rather she had put the prices up and reduced the number of horses, but clients can only vote with their feet, not make the business decisions.

I noticed the difference in my pocket when the 3 left but the spin off is I have that field back so my old boy is now in the driest field that has been rested since they went rather than being stabled at night, the saving on bedding will not make up the difference but over 12 months it could well do all things considered, It would not work for everyone but offering full or part livery does make more sense for a YO who is hands on but not all owners want to pay for it or actually work out it could be the best option financially.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I pay over £200 a month for DIY, its quite expensive for this area and thats for 1 horse!
Facilities are average, stables, arena but great turnout. Lots of land and good drainage all have their own large fields so horses can stay out 24/7 or as much as you want. Farmers attitude is do what you wish basically. I've viewed a few other yards which have better facilities but no turnout - turnout is a huge thing IMO.