I hate having a livery yard :(

[spacie1977]

Glad to hear you've found a solution. But as you don't sound particularly happy about having any liveries I'd still be looking at gently pushing one or two to go. If you raise your livery fees to considerably more than the going rate for the area, they're very likely to look elsewhere without you needing to ask someone to go. I.e. No guilty feelings about choosing which one goes, or putting them under pressure to leave with just a months notice. You'll have fewer moaners to deal with and more freedom over what you do with your own horses. And if they take a while to find somewhere else to go because they've got a lot of horses to move, at least you'll be financially compensated for having to wait for them to shove off.

 

[CBAnglo]

Put prices up; they will leave.

I have 3 empty boxes; no way I would rent these out, neither to friends or anyone else. I worked extremely hard for 10 years to afford my place and no-one is going to dictate to me or my horses for £20 pw!

 

[QueenDee_]

Glad you've thought of a short term solution.
As for the long term i'd consider raising the prices asap to make the hassle seem more worthwhile (i'd consider raising them to the point that if you lost 1 livery, you'd still be receiving the same combined amount from the remaining liveries if that makes sense).
This may also result in one of them deciding to find livery elsewhere (thus forgoing the issue of having to kick one out!) alternatively, come spring time if you have decided that the short term solution of using the field shelter for yourself is not an appropriate long term solution, you can give one of them notice to leave. As spring is a less stressful time for someone to be finding a new livery space, this may result in less hard feelings all round than doing it at christmas (although it is well within your rights to do so!)

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Can I just ask if you had your own land and yard would your horses not be your priority? This is my home, my land, my yard and I have always dreamed of being able to keep horses at home. However, I am unable to enjoy my horses. The liveries are mucking out and then having a nice cuppa in the tack room while I battle the mud, wind and rain to put hay in the field for my filthy, wet, and miserable horses. Surely it isn't meant to be like that?

Ultimately yes but I still would be trying to work something out longer term even if that is more notice. If I remember correctly it wasn't so long ago you were in danger of being made homeless yourself so I would expect a little more empathy. These liveries were there before you and it's not their fault you've come along and don't like the set-up - which presumably you knew before you took it on?

 

[Sandstone1]

Ultimately yes but I still would be trying to work something out longer term even if that is more notice. If I remember correctly it wasn't so long ago you were in danger of being made homeless yourself so I would expect a little more empathy. These liveries were there before you and it's not their fault you've come along and don't like the set-up - which presumably you knew before you took it on?

I thought you were running the livery yard for someone else? Maybe I got it wrong. It sounds,as if there are too many horses for the property.

 

[Vodkagirly]

I think I would let the livery with the barn know that you will be swapping fields then put a notice up that there I'd rent rise as of 1St Jan. You may lose some livery but if not, there will be something in the pot to pay for more hardstanding for next winter.

 

[webble]

Just to throw a slight spanner in the works a lot of livery yards won't take stallions so you might find the livery that has them very reluctant to move. Would it be worth keeping them but at a higher rate and getting rid of the other two. You could say it's because you know it's hard to find somewhere with a stallion so you are still the good guy

 

[popsdosh]

Ultimately yes but I still would be trying to work something out longer term even if that is more notice. If I remember correctly it wasn't so long ago you were in danger of being made homeless yourself so I would expect a little more empathy. These liveries were there before you and it's not their fault you've come along and don't like the set-up - which presumably you knew before you took it on?

unbelievable, if the liveries want security let them buy their own yard !!!! There is a very large livery yard and show centre not very far from me who gave all their liveries a months notice recently because they got fed up with the moaning and didnt need the income. If its your property you call the shots its not your problem were they go. We had about 20 liveries here till 15 yrs ago now none,I have never regretted closing it. Im afraid SBTS its an attitude like yours that makes it impossible.
If it was me and you really are happy to keep some I would move the ball into their court ,tell them what needs to happen, what the terms of them staying are and suggest they sort it out amongst them all. Just as an aside do any of them have horses that could live out??? as its amazing how accommodating people can be when the chips are down!!!

 

[madlady]

Oh poor you. I'd still be having a meeting with the liveries - tell them you have a temporary arrangement but say that everything needs to be discussed and sorted properly. If they can't discuss and come to a reasonable solution between them then one or all will have to go.

The main thing is YOU and YOUR horses - your land, your home, your rules.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Put prices up; they will leave.

I have 3 empty boxes; no way I would rent these out, neither to friends or anyone else. I worked extremely hard for 10 years to afford my place and no-one is going to dictate to me or my horses for £20 pw!

Yeah, this. I do have some sympathy for the liveries tbh. but then having several horses and paying peanuts for them, well I'm sorry, they should have thought of the possibility that maybe someone at some stage might want to stop subsidising their hobby.

 

[conniegirl]

£20 a week for diy depends on the area u are in.
Up here no one would pay more than £25 a week Diy.
I currently pay£20 a week diy with access to 2 flood lit schools, parking for my Lorry, fab stables and all year turnout.

 

[_OC_]

Yeah....just do it by text like it was done to me about 6 weeks ago....then hide in your house and hope they leave....and I was not even a problem....did not whinge and was grateful and generous to her....and kept every thing very tidy.
Yep.....so do it that way.....seems to be the done way round these parts!!!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

£20 a week for diy depends on the area u are in.
Up here no one would pay more than £25 a week Diy.
I currently pay£20 a week diy with access to 2 flood lit schools, parking for my Lorry, fab stables and all year turnout.

I don't care where it is, £20pw week is peanuts and I've no idea why people do it for that money, even if there's no mortgage. I obviously don't know the liveries in the livery yard under discussion but I do feel that livery prices are partly to blame for the welfare crisis currently. Its too easy to collect horses and it may all be fine until you find yourself with nowhere to put them or if prices suddenly hike and suddenly your costs go up by 25-50%, then what? I've seen it too often, don't have what you can't plan for in an emergency and if you don't have your own place, you are never completely safe. Its difficult enough to place two horses at livery, three or more even more so.

The reason people 'won't pay it is because they don't have to.

I have three, at home and I rent fields. No arena although I have parking for my lorry Taking into account the cost of the stables, mortgage etc I don't do it for £20pw. I've actually not paid £20pw ever tbh, even yards round my way that were charging £25pw DIY 10 years ago woke up and started charging more.

 

[stencilface]

Hey, I have just realised that I do have a field with a shelter in it (doh!). I don't go round there often, so had forgotten all about it. Livery who uses that field will just have to swap fields with me for a while if she wants to keep her stables.

I can't believe I hadn't thought of that, but I have only been round there half a dozen times, if that, since we moved in!

This is brilliant! Hark at you with your new house, stables and so much land you forgot you had a field with a stone barn in it

I wish that was me!

If it makes you feel better, mine is on restricted paddock rest (although in at night) and the only nearby area we can paddock is a quagmire atm, poor thing will get webbed legs I think. Although his paddock at the bottom (I have 3 on rotation to hopefully minimise damage!) has its own stream these days, which means no lugging water buckets for me

 

[YorksG]

Liveries should be pleased that they didn't have to move when the property changed hands imo. I agree with MoC, we pay a premium to buy houses with land to keep horses at home, yes we have a nice house, but when you factor in all the costs, it will work out as more than 20 quid a horse, per week. Very few liveries seem to recognise the costs of maintenance, never mind the time taken to do it! We had horrendous winds last night and the over hang of the stable built about five years ago was lifting, so in the dark and winds, I was on a stable roof making running repairs. How much that would actually cost to have done, even if you could get some-one out, doesn't bear thinking about! Liveries also cause more maintenance (rotting wooden walls because of deep littering on unsuitable wood shavings).
Popsdosh is quite right, the only way you can ensure that your horses are going to be able to stay on a piece of land, is to buy that land yourself!

 

[ester]

£20 seems reasonable to me as there isn't a good quality school. I pay £30 for the same plus a good quality 25x65 floodlight school and that is going rate around here, arguable quite a posh area as near winchester!

Assuming you are still renting this place I am assuming that the owner has given you carte blanche and made no promises to any of the liveries as per how long they could stay, and obviously doesn't mind the potential loss of income if you were to have them all leave and then end up leaving at the end of the tenancy yourself.

 

[GemG]

I've not read every post, but get the jist....

Sit down and think about exactly what you want for going forward, write it all down, including how many liveries you want / need / none / whatever. Decide what fields you want, what stables you want, what the rules are going to be. Decide who is going where if you want to keep any. Sleep on it, Have another look at it the next day, then...

....grow a set of balls and do it. Whatever it is.

You didn't buy your own place to please other people. (And I am a livery myself by the way). If you need rid of any just give them ample time to get sorted to be kind if you can. Do it.

 

[Clodagh]

I think, if you can reach an acceptable compromise to see you thruogh winter you coulds tell them on the 1st Jan what your plans are for, say, 1st April. THat is far mjore notice than anyonecould object to. They must know it might happen anyway?

If you can't reach a compromise for your horses then yes, one of them must go and you could just give a months notice.

The barn sounds like a plan though. I bet the livery who has it objects to you taking it!

 

[Tiddlypom]

£20 seems reasonable to me as there isn't a good quality school. I pay £30 for the same plus a good quality 25x65 floodlight school and that is going rate around here, arguable quite a posh area as near winchester!

Sadly, Ester, there is often a difference between the 'going rate' for livery in an area and the 'economic rate'. If you ever get your own place, and have to run, pay back any loans or mortgage and maintain it, you will discover this.

 

[Alec Swan]

I've run two livery yards and been involved with several others. NEVER EVER AGAIN! We have two of our four boxes standing empty, and that is how it will stay. We have a friend, an otherwise pleasant girl with a spectacular smile and a bum to match, who continues to hint at how lucky we would be were she with us! Not a ******* chance!

The horror stories are legion. I've been on those yards where they've stolen each others feed and husbands too (some of those men must have been desperate!), but interestingly, child theft seems to always be non-existent, though why I'm not sure because the children never seemed to me to be the problem, it was their parents. On one yard, we even had one livery tie sacks around the feet of their pony so they wouldn't be heard whilst leaving in the dead of night.

Nobody earns enough out of a livery yard, it seems to me, to warrant the attendant grief.

Alec.

 

[ester]

Oh I am well aware of that, having had own land and stables in the past. It is economic for my YOs as they want all the facilities for the YO's 3 horses too anyway. But it does depend on where too as to how much land and property is.

 

[YorksG]

It does seem as if an awful lot of people have no real idea of how much time YO's have to put in to keeping the place running well, I doubt if many will make minimum wage for the work they do, never mind a living wage! There still seems to be a huge feeling of entitlement amongst livery customers, that they should have the services for less than the economic rate. I think this is endemic among some horse owners, who expect all goods and services for less than the true cost. People will pay a fortune for bling and colour co-ordinated tat and yet resent paying a fair price for forage, vet bills and farrier services, very odd imo.

 

[Clodagh]

I've run two livery yards and been involved with several others. NEVER EVER AGAIN! We have two of our four boxes standing empty, and that is how it will stay. We have a friend, an otherwise pleasant girl with a spectacular smile and a bum to match, who continues to hint at how lucky we would be were she with us! Not a ******* chance!

The horror stories are legion. I've been on those yards where they've stolen each others feed and husbands too (some of those men must have been desperate!), but interestingly, child theft seems to always be non-existent, though why I'm not sure because the children never seemed to me to be the problem, it was their parents. On one yard, we even had one livery tie sacks around the feet of their pony so they wouldn't be heard whilst leaving in the dead of night.

Nobody earns enough out of a livery yard, it seems to me, to warrant the attendant grief.

Alec.

So agree with you! I have two new stables and a large field standing empty. I had one livery, once. Never again.

 

[stencilface]

We were at some points considering a livery as we have so much grass, but you're making me think its a no no! Will keep getting the farmer to put his sheep in (and keeping my dog away from them!!)

 

[DD]

just give them all notice and see which leaves first then tell the rest they can stay.

 

[Annagain]

Sadly, Ester, there is often a difference between the 'going rate' for livery in an area and the 'economic rate'. If you ever get your own place, and have to run, pay back any loans or mortgage and maintain it, you will discover this.

I think I'm very lucky in that my YO inherited the yard from her father and it's been in the family for decades, so no mortgage on it or their house. I'm sure this helps to keep the prices down as it's excellent value for the area.

Mrs E - I think I'd struggle through the winter, which should be easier now you've found a barn - and take your time to get to know your liveries a bit better and decide which one is the most dispensible. Then, early in the new year, give one 6 months notice. Say you now realise there are just too many horses there for the land / buildings, so you're giving them plenty of time to find somewhere else. They can't moan about 6 months notice and once spring hits, it should be less of an issue until next winter. Do the name in a hat thing, but only put one name in there!

The other option would be to tell each livery they have to move one horse each within 3 months. I bet one will move them all and make the decision for you!

With regards to the mare who won't stable, you might find she'll change her mind as she gets older and this weather might be the trigger. I've known 2 who wouldn't stable until they were about 17 / 18, they then settled virtually overnight.

 

[GemG]

We were at some points considering a livery as we have so much grass, but you're making me think its a no no! Will keep getting the farmer to put his sheep in (and keeping my dog away from them!!)

Being a livery myself, I feel I must balance this slightly and add that, yes, there are lots of 'bad, thoughtless, inconsiderate, demanding, entitled' liveries out there.

But there are also some who are decent, hardworking, thoughtful, tidy and conscientious also - it's a cas of being very fussy about who you have / let on your yard. A lot let anyone on - and end up with the crazy mix of the unhelpful and the clueless.

For example, I am tidier (by far!) than our YO and am fussy and sweep up even when my horses are out and it's not my mess (I just can't leave it!). I push bolts down when I pass a door as I can't stand the sticking out in case someone gets 'caught on it' when walking past. Maybe that comes from prev working on an immaculate yard where everything had to be just -so. A good livery can be awfully helpful and be a great 'extra hand' for example if you need to go away for example. Or good company for hacking.

Having said that, if I did have my own place, I doubt I would ever have liveries - so I'm contradicting myself aren't I!!!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

It does seem as if an awful lot of people have no real idea of how much time YO's have to put in to keeping the place running well, I doubt if many will make minimum wage for the work they do, never mind a living wage! There still seems to be a huge feeling of entitlement amongst livery customers, that they should have the services for less than the economic rate. I think this is endemic among some horse owners, who expect all goods and services for less than the true cost. People will pay a fortune for bling and colour co-ordinated tat and yet resent paying a fair price for forage, vet bills and farrier services, very odd imo.

I've worked with horses and in supporting industries for much of my life-never again will I have horse owners as the majority of my customers/clients. Many of them really do think as you describe and think that working with horses should be paid as unskilled, less than minimum wage labour-but then bitch when they actually get the unskilled labour. And don't get me started on sharers, charging someone for the privilege of shovelling your horse's *****-usually at a higher price than the daily livery. I need to go, I feel a rant coming on

 

[pixie]

In my experience, my best liveries have always been those who have owned or rented land in the past. They are very aware of field maintenance. Always happy to keep their fields immaculately poo-picked. Keep horses in for longer during bad weather so that the grass stays better for the future. Always up to date on worming/WEC etc.

I tend to try and keep numbers down over winter if possible, to allow remaining horses to have the best possible turnout. If a livery leaves in the autumn, then I won't start advertising for a new one until late feb/march. I've currently got two boxes empty, which is great. It allows me the space to have a winter paddock in reserve. I also now have a fenced off stubble field for when it gets very yucky outside.

In regards to the OP. you've solved the problem for now, which is great. Now you can spend the next few months getting to know your liveries. You can pick up on any traits (human or horsey!) that you'd rather not have on your yard and can ask them to leave. Late payers? Complainers? Stable/field wrecking horse? Someone who won't poo-pick? Someone who keeps "borrowing" other people's things? Plenty of reasons to ask someone to leave. Even simple things like horses being good to lead. They may be DIY, but if push come to shove then you may have to lead one in an emergency. A horse that is arsey to lead is enough reason for me to get rid.

 

[Llanali]

I think what your main issue will be is what the livery you kick out will then say about you to the local horse community. I would tread very carefully as this could come back to bite you....unless you get rid of all the liveries.

Ultimately yes but I still would be trying to work something out longer term even if that is more notice. If I remember correctly it wasn't so long ago you were in danger of being made homeless yourself so I would expect a little more empathy. These liveries were there before you and it's not their fault you've come along and don't like the set-up - which presumably you knew before you took it on?

These left my jaw on the floor.

Firstly, being held to ransom by a local gossip is not something that would fill me with much fear and nor bloody should it.

Secondly, it matters not one jot who was there first!! OP now has control of the property and can do with it however she chooses. I'd say the liveries have been lucky not to have been given noticed when the property became that of the OP.