I have a big decision to make today

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_jetset_

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I am going over to see Troy either this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon (depending on when I have to pick up a part for my crunched box) so emailed the stud this morning to double check it ok to nip up. The stud owner phoned me back to say everything is fine, but Troy is now in a stable on his own as opposed to being in the pen with the others.

It turns out he has turned into a bit of a sex pest and is trying to bonk anything that will stand still for long enough
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So, the decision has to be made really whether I want him cut or to leave him entire as it will ideally need doing soon if the first option is the one I choose. I just never imagined he would be so bloody randy at 10 months of age, I thought I would have a bit more time to make the decision
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Any advice?
 
I'm not completely sure why you would want to leave him entire? I could well have got this completely wrong and if I have then I will grovel and apologise profusely, but I though Hannah was of no particular pedigree? There are lots of other Proset babies out there, and with ProSet himself still going strong I can't understand why Troy would be in demand as a stallion.
Plus I think you would have alot of trouble finding yards to stable him on - not many yards are welcoming of uncut colts and he'd be looking at years of solidarity. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.
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Sorry if you think I am being harsh as I know he means the world to you
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yup i'm another for cutting i'm afraid, i left my colt's tackle on as i wanted to breed from him, but it didn't quite work out, and i ended up not getting him done till he was 2 and a half by which time he had had all the colt feelings etc and it really tramatised him when they went, it's not fair in my opion to let them have there feelings and them chop them off, i know sometimes it can't be helped. diffrent situations and all
 
Whip 'em off! Far, far less hassle for you in the long run. There are always good stallions to breed from if the need arises. I firmly believe stallions should be kept at stud by top class professionals who are used to handling them.

I don't really agree with the presence statement either. You ought to come and watch my little pony Oliver in the field. He oozes presence and has a "look at me" factor. He's a gelding, although I can't say when he was cut.

I truly think that presence comes from having great conformation and the right temperament.....basically a horse/pony that likes "showing off". I don't think that has anything to do with whether they're entire or not.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone...

I will have the facilities for a stallion, so that does not come into it at all. What is forefront in my mind is his quality of life, if he is like this now (ie. sex pest) what will he be like at 2 or 3 years of age. He is going to have a very solitary life being the way he is. I know some stallions that live happily with geldings in a field, but if he is so randy now, then surely it is not something that is going to improve.

I sort of know what I have to do, but the decision is so hard because it is a final choice that cannot be reversed. I have had so many dreams shattered these past few months, I am not really in the best frame of mind to make a decision like this. However, it needs making.
 
It is really hard but i think you know deep down what the right thing to do is, i havn't spoken to you before but i have read about what a hard time you've been having, if he's going to be a gp horse he will be a gp horse without his ball's, if he's being a sex pest now, what will happen come spring!!?, you have a mare in recovery from major surgery and a mare out competeing and to add to that a horny colt, at the end of the day your the only one who can say yes or no, but the advice from the other's is very good and i agree.
 
I would get them off now while he's still young.
I wouldn't claim to be an expert but, the YO's spotted stallion is a sex pest, he is 4yo and is another one that bonks anything that moves, and so has lead a lonely life (YO got him a year ago)and goes mad if anything walks past his stable, mare or gelding. He can't be turned out with anything as he beats up anything male turned out with him, and resulted in one of the other RS geldings having 20 odd stiches in an enormous gash on his leg when they smashed through a fence and got in together, and if a mare goes out with him he just spends the entire time mounting them.
He is almost more trouble than he's worth, he is only still entire because the YO hopes to breed spots from him.
 
Personally, off. Nothing but hassle, whilst I dont know him personally my boy became a complete ar$e, coudlnt wait for the day it happened

He's a "fun" horse for you, yes a competition one, but ultimately for you. Stallions are not straight forward or easy to manage, so make your life a little easier
 
IMO get them off! Like has been said before there are alot of world class stallions standing already, the cometition is very high so he need to be exceptional. As Troy is ultimatly for you have him Gelded and enjoy him! Nico is being gelded next month although he is showing no signs of being colty he is turned out with our old mare so better safe than sorry!
 
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Thanks for the advice everyone...

I will have the facilities for a stallion, so that does not come into it at all. What is forefront in my mind is his quality of life, if he is like this now (ie. sex pest) what will he be like at 2 or 3 years of age. He is going to have a very solitary life being the way he is. I know some stallions that live happily with geldings in a field, but if he is so randy now, then surely it is not something that is going to improve.

I sort of know what I have to do, but the decision is so hard because it is a final choice that cannot be reversed. I have had so many dreams shattered these past few months, I am not really in the best frame of mind to make a decision like this. However, it needs making.

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Becki, can I ask why you would want to keep him entire??

The reason we have a stallion is because we have 12 mares, so for us it was down to how much it would cost us to AI all these mares. However, that said we are now paying a lot of money for his training, so are not saving ourselves any money at all.

Also there are so many stallions that are available worldwide and with AI on the increase it means the market for stallions is more and more competitive, and to me a stallion has to be pretty unique and special before you will attrack mare owners.

They are much more hassle to keep whether the facilities are there or not. You also have more added liability at shows etc with them as well. To compete BSJA you have the added fees unless you grade them and they successfully pass.

If your quest is just for a riding horse then surely a gelding would be much more easier to keep, and would have a far better life.
 
i agree with anastasia on this one and i am afraid as much as people love their foals there often seen through rose tinted glasses and the truth of the matter is there are v.few colts worth being kept as an entire, and i personally wouldnt keep a proset colt entire unless i had a really good stallion handler and rider as Pro himself wasnt exactly a pussycat when he was a young horse
 
A colt should only be kept entire if they have known breeding (and excellent breeding), excellent confo, excellent temp and performance. If they don't have any of these they should be gelded whether you have the facilities or not.

Look at SN's H, he has all of the above and she still made the hard decision of having him gelded as there are so many other stallions!
 
I wanted to keep him entire as I would have liked to have seen what type of horse he would have made before I had to make a decision... I was planning on taking him to the futurity class and seeing what was said and make the decision then. However, that is not really an option now as I don't think he would make the best of himself at the futurity class because he is a sex pest
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To be honest, he is an absolute sweetheart to handle because I really put the work in with him before he went to stud to be weaned. No matter what happens with his little tickle tackle, the handling side of things does not worry me as I have an excellent back up team
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But I think the decision has been made now... I just have to get my head around it.
 
Poor Becki - sounds like you really, really didn't need another problem to deal with at the moment, with everything you already have on your plate.

I do understand how you feel, and it must be particularly difficult if you have all the facilities, etc. I think it is very good and kind of you to be putting Troy's quality of life first.

I have to agree with the others - only the most truly outstanding colts should ever be kept entire, and by that I mean with outstanding pedigrees as well being top-class as individuals. I don't know enough about either Troy or Hannah to know whether this is the case or not, and anyway I would not presume to make such a judgement for you - it really is your decision.

I'm just sorry that you are being forced into making the decision sooner than you expected - and especially at such a rotten time for you.
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I will have the facilities for a stallion, so that does not come into it at all. What is forefront in my mind is his quality of life, if he is like this now (ie. sex pest) what will he be like at 2 or 3 years of age. He is going to have a very solitary life being the way he is. I know some stallions that live happily with geldings in a field, but if he is so randy now, then surely it is not something that is going to improve.



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No - if they're randy little pests at 10 months then unless you can put a HELL of a lot of time and work into him he will get FAR worse. And even if you CAN put a lot of time and work in, he may STILL get worse. The later you geld these chaps the harder it is to get them behaving again because - although the behaviour is testosterone driven - it is also learned. When you geld them, they don't forget the behaviour they learned as a ratbag colt.

I have a coloured who we kept as a colt too long - he was well bred and had good conformation and great movement - I thought he had 'potential'! Despite a lot of time and effort, he was a total ratbag by the time he was 18 months so I cut him - and 12 months later he is JUST starting to improve!!

I have another 2 year old colt who has lived out with 2 geldings the same age since he was weaned - and he is a poppet. No fighting, beautiful behaviour. He's pure ID so MIGHT be a potential stallion but I'm in no hurry to decide about him because his temperament is so superb.

I would NEVER keep a colt who didn't have good pedigree on both sides and a superb temperament - they are far more trouble than they're worth!
 
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I wanted to keep him entire as I would have liked to have seen what type of horse he would have made before I had to make a decision... I was planning on taking him to the futurity class and seeing what was said and make the decision then. However, that is not really an option now as I don't think he would make the best of himself at the futurity class because he is a sex pest
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To be honest, he is an absolute sweetheart to handle because I really put the work in with him before he went to stud to be weaned. No matter what happens with his little tickle tackle, the handling side of things does not worry me as I have an excellent back up team
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But I think the decision has been made now... I just have to get my head around it.

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Becki I hope you did not take my remark the wrong way, as only you can make the decision about your boy. At the end of the day he will still be a super horse, regardless of whether he has balls or not. Having the "tackle" does not make the horse...a horse can jump or do dressage just as easily without their privates, and that will not detract from him as a sports horse....
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Don't be silly... if I didn't want to hear people's opinions I would not have asked for them
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I appreciate the advice given by people who have much more experience than I do... It is frustrating because the facilties are there and even though he is a randy bugger, he is still excellent to handle in every single way. He is in a stable on his own today (been in a pen with the others until today) and he has not batted an eyelid about being on his own, even though he has never been alone before in his life! He is such a lovely nature, I just think he is a bit homosexual as it is only the other colts he is rogering
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see wouldnt it be nice if these decisions were taken away from us, and all the colts in england were assessed and those who are good enough can have them left on a little longer and the rest gelded with out question, then sentimental mummies have no choice, i cant blame you Becki for thinking what if.. i do it with all my children but i know that none of them are good enough
 
That is it... I thought I would take him to the futurity and if they thought he was a good yearling, I would keep him entire and do the same again as a two year old. I know he is really nicely put together because it has been commented on from professional breeders, but I just cannot stand for him to be on his lonesome at this age
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He is such a lovely colt, really nice to handle and a real 'people' horse... I know many people see their horses through rose tinted glasses, but I am the opposite. I am super critical of all of my horses, I always have been
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Troy has been bred for me to compete, therefore I want him to be focussed on the job at hand rather than anything else, especially if he is a sex pest
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Pro-Set is a very hot horse, as are many of his progeny, so I am hoping he will have enough presence to achieve my other dreams with him
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I would agree with cutting now. I have no idea whether I have a colt or a filly coming this summer, and I know if it a colt I would like to allow him to mature and build up a little more strength too, but that isn't always practical or the best choice for the horse.

If you really think he has potential is it worth looking into freezing semen at the time of gelding? he may be too young for this to be viable but I guess AndyPandy would be the expert there.
 
He doesnt need his balls to be a "dream horse". Presence is about the horse, its personlity etc, not the fact it has testosterone running through its body which masks as presence because of the situation they are in

My foal was well put together, won his classes, nicely bred etc, however it was never a thought to keep him entire at all. He is a competition horse, doesnt have the pedigree going back far enough, and believe me, has enough presence now without his balls!

Whilst I dont want to sound negative, if he was advertised, I wouldnt pick him to breed from because of Hannah's unknown element, and also that she is not bred to do dressage (if thats how you wanted to market him), and therefore you dont know what she will put on to the foal from her side.

You need to do whats right for you ultimately, and what you personally can handle and deal with but I know what I would do
 
Off I know a very well bred stallion who became so dangerous that he was gelded. He pasted his grading with fab marks best they had had for years, but he was such a pain they cut him.
 
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