i have come to the conclusion

I'm one of the new breed being 22 having had lessons from 7-10 before getting a pony of my own, luckily I had a horsey grandad who put me through my paces well and truly and I was chucked on a variety of naughty ones he had bought to bring on once he felt I was competent enough. When I got back into riding this year I looked for a decent school for a good few weeks before I found one. They ranged from poorly kept stables and horses to RIs telling children flapping around in the saddle toes down and using the reins like they were steering a chopper bike that they were doing brilliantly! I knew what I was looking for having ridden and owned horses/ponies but a lot of beginners and parents just don't realise they are tinning out cash and gaining little in the way of skills and experience.
 
But most kids don't seem to do much WORK. I'm afraid mine have to muck out, catch, turn out, sweep, keep my lovely muckheap all square (!) pooh pick, etc, come rain or shine.
They can heave buckets and wheelbarrows around like nothing on earth. Then I find older kids who can't lift a pitch fork!
They think they can ride because they can steer these expensive ponies round, but frankly, I don't think they can. I can't afford expensive ponies for mine, so it's not an issue, but they don't come to any harm by learning to ride all sorts. They're not *dangerous* just because they're not perfect.
 
My yard is a riding school aswell n its like a child daycare centre people just drop the kids there and leave them all day!!
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I've introduced my daughter to horses from a baby.

She's 2 now, more mobile and she helps mucking out, filling haynets, feed buckets.

She won't ride 'properly' for another couple of years, but she'll sure as hell know how to look after a horse by then.

Mean Mummy!!!
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But back to the topic, I've come to the conclusion that I'm definately an exception, the complete opposite. I drive my RI, friends and family nuts with how down I am on my riding. If I had my way, I would be on a happy hacking plodder
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The RS I ride at currently has 'own a pony' days through the school holidays to get the kids interested in pony care, tack cleaning, mucking out etc and I was there for a lesson last week in the midst of one. The RS owner has the patience of a saint is all I can say
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It is sad that other places don't do this though - especially since, for a lot of kids, a RS is the only place they can be around horses.
 
I agree with the_skewbald - children need to understand proper horsemanship and the work that is involved. Mine gets up at 6.30am before school to turn out and much out his 3 and then rides after school and puts them to bed at night stables. Of course I'll help if he has a large piece of schoolwork, but he has to learn the committment and bonding that is necessary.

I have to say, though, that I'm wondering where I've gone wrong as my kitchen floor is covered in paper with pieces of bridle swimming in oil where he tried to do a perfect job on his tack before we leave for a show at the weekend...! Might have been simpler to have done it myself!
 
Skewbald as we never had expensive ponies and made the best of what we had...I don't think i would put a child on some of the horrors i had in those days (especially one particularly witchy exmoor mare) but we learnt stickability, how to cope with the unexpected and how to make the best of a difficult pony. Maybe some of these children nowadays just don't have this practical down to earth experience amd also importantly learn that ponies are unpredictable and require respect.

Perhaps it also has a little to do with parents and children wanting immediate results without realising it takes time and effort. To be fair though there have always been parents who could buy expensive ponies and horses for thier children and then spent a long time scratching thier heads when they didn't do as well as they had expected.
 
QR.

I just think horse riding is more accessible now, and not just for the 'posh'.

I also don't think that RS clients are necessarily 'novices', some are, but others are perhaps more experienced. You get prats in every walk of life, and I have never been to a riding school that hasnt taught stable management etc. Alot are run alongside the PC, which has helped enormously. In fact, most RS seem to be better now than they were 20 years ago when we had streams of tatty run down yards with three ponies that were worked all day with ill fitting tack. Granted, you could gallop around bareback, but things have change in all apects of life, not just riding schools.
We also had dealers 20, 30 years ago who would dupe anyone who came into their yard. I actually think there are probably less dodgy dealers now, but we just didnt hear about them all before (and thanks to the internet we get to hear about today's few).
The blame lies solely with the buyers who buy totally unsuitable horses, complete pillocks who go for a lesson and think they're ready to go out xc.
 
I agree to a point but I also think that kids are not getting the whole experience of horses that use to happen years ago. When I first got into horses I went to my local riding school to "help out" I did this before I even had a lesson, I tagged along with a mate....I was 9 years old I believe. We would get dropped off around 10-10.30 and picked up again after last lessons at 5 pm. During this time we learnt about mucking out, well building a lovely muck heap
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, grooming, tack cleaning, we were relatively well supervised and there were always plenty of "grown ups" to answer our eager questions. All we got out of that was a chance to ride one of the ponies bareback to the nearby field in the summer. I think kids today don't get a chance to really just go and muck in at the local RS anymore as for most sadly health and safety will not allow it and I'm sure there are a fair few more that will not do it without being paid to do it.

I also think there are decent riding schools out there, but at say £25 per hour for a lesson it makes it an expensive hobby, which we all know it is
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but to the untrained a livery bill of around £10 per day for as much riding as you like will sound quite favourable
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regardless of whether you can look after the horse or not.

I do actually know someone who bought a cracking highland pony for their 6 year old daughter who had only ever had 6 lessons
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The parents didn't have a clue and paid over the odds for full livery to include some "help"
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Needless to say pony soon sorted out the kid and was promtly sold to somewhere it is more appreciated
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It's shocking tbh. I knew how to strip a bridle & put it back together correctly at about 9 & knew how to put one on properly at about 7/8. Purely because my parents could not afford posh lessons but because anyone who had ponies or horses I begged to help with. I learnt to ride at a very dodgy school admittedly but I learnt how to rise to the trot without jabbing the ponies mouths & I do have independent hands & seat.

I also learnt the art of subtle aids rather than kick, kick, kick & whip, whip, whip!

I am by no means a great rider, my confidence fails me & my joint probs limit me to what I can ride & what I can do.

Too much H&S, too many spoiled children in some places & parents buying ponies before the child has proved it isn't a phase & before the child is competent enough to look after said pony.

I wasn't allowed a pony before about 11 because my mum refused to be the one to look after it completely. I had to show willing & be able to do the majority of the looking after. I'd get help with feeds sometimes & tacking up if my hands were sore but the looking after was down to me.
 
Lol at the oily floor
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I feel lucky that I got to do all those things growing up - the mucking out, grooming, turning out etc whatever the weather. Can't wait to do it all again!!
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I was brought up in a riding school; non-horsey parents. I'm 19 so part of this new breed.

I started riding there at the age of 6. I was allowed to jump (once experienced enoguh) on a pony who refused more often than jumped and ran off with me frequently. I learnt to sit. Said pony was called K. During the 'own a pony weeks' we got to catch the ponies from the fields and bareback back to the stable doubled up. We got to play hide and seek in the haybarn. I learnt all the parts of the bridle and saddle, how to groom, lots of the basics. I played scissors, round the world and even learnt to vault onto a horse using a small trampolene. We used to go on hacks through the park and gallop up a hill.

Skip to 12 I started working as a helper at the stables. We wern't allowed to 'play' in the haybarn. We could skip out, but not muck out incase we damaged our backs. We could catch the ponies and lead in from the field but no body ever mentioned bareback or doubling. And no jump ever made it to even 2ft. Occasionally we went on hacks, but our instructor never rode, she just walked on foot. And we never went faster than walk.

Skip to 14, I got a horse share. Had to be taught how to muck out by owner of said horse share. Still couldnt muck out at stables despite doing it 3 times a week outside of riding school.

Skip to 19. I now have my own horse and no longer see said riding school. However my next door neighbour's daughter does, and she came up to see my horses and have a go on my pony the other day. She is 12 and has been riding since she was 8. I discovered she doesn't sit to ask for canter. They never hack out, and rarely jump. When she popped a tiny cross pole with the pony she took jumping position 4 strides awake, then was consqeuently thrown forward and jabbed pony's mouth. They have to wear helmets when catching and turning out, and can't even lift water buckets for fear of damaging their backs.

You may remember the parents who sued when their daughter got kicked in the head whilst turning out? Lawsuits have ruined our riding schools.

Personally I think PC isn't helping either...
 
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QR.

I just think horse riding is more accessible now, and not just for the 'posh'.

I also don't think that RS clients are necessarily 'novices', some are, but others are perhaps more experienced. You get prats in every walk of life, and I have never been to a riding school that hasnt taught stable management etc. Alot are run alongside the PC, which has helped enormously. In fact, most RS seem to be better now than they were 20 years ago when we had streams of tatty run down yards with three ponies that were worked all day with ill fitting tack. Granted, you could gallop around bareback, but things have change in all apects of life, not just riding schools.
We also had dealers 20, 30 years ago who would dupe anyone who came into their yard. I actually think there are probably less dodgy dealers now, but we just didnt hear about them all before (and thanks to the internet we get to hear about today's few).
The blame lies solely with the buyers who buy totally unsuitable horses, complete pillocks who go for a lesson and think they're ready to go out xc.

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for the "posh"???????

no, sorry, charlie......

i came from, and still class myself as, working class...def. not posh.

the riding schol i learned at was actually an urban RS.....25 boxes on 3 acres...the horses/ponies went out for 2hrs each per week.the yard...which was gravel/chippings was cleared by us RS pupils every week, the muck heap was "trampled down"every saturday at 4pm, all tack was stripped/cleaned and put back together every wknd, barley/oats were boiled,


as for "dealers".....yes, there were "dealers" ...but not as many numptees as today to be fleeced by the "dealers"....
 
I'm only 17 but most of my experience comes from helping at riding schools. Even then at 12/13 i used to get so annoyed about so called "helpers" who used to sit on their arses in the barn all day doing nothing. (the daycare comment someone made is so true- my RI had to tell some of the girls off for being noisy on the yard while i was having my lesson last week).

I'd be there every week bright and early (much to my parents dismay!) no matter what the weather and would always find something to do. I'd sit and read and read up on everything from books as well.
Again the phrase "more money than sense".

I still dont have a horse of my own but one day i'll get there and fingers crossed i'll make the right choice when buying and have enough knowledge to give the horse a good home.
 
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Tell me about it. We are fixing a lovely pony which cost a fair bit from someone who sells Irish event ponies and this numpty gets hold of it and ruins it. A nicer chap you couldn't wish to meet, but he's had every ounce of confidence knocked out of him and he has adopted a self-preservation strategy. Thankfully he seems to coming round but he's one of countless thousands on a downward spiral due to rich but incompetent dreamers with a) no idea how badly they ride or idea of their limitations and b) no concept of what future a truly damaged pony faces
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Arses.
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Anyway, riding schools aren't allowed to have those naughty ponies which teach kids to stick on or eat dirt. They have all been shot for being dangerous and been replaced by robots which can barely rustle up a trot - except in rare and reckless to the point of madness establishments! It's not worth the risk of being sued............

A kid comes to ride our ancient pony and she had been once a week to a fairly decent RS for SEVEN YEARS - and it terrified her when she asked gently for trot and got it - but had to steer as well! I'm afraid I was a bit scathing about what this person had actually got for her money (and it must run into thousands
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) To be fair, no one ever tells them actually how good they aren't and they have no benchmark. This mum had no idea how much she hadn't been taught - diagonals for starters. At the GG school of brutal honesty and no holds barred straight talking, this young person has mastered many skills and our very feisty little pony! And I didn't get sent to jail
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(Yet)

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TBH is this a fair representation of what today's riding schools can offer?

I beg to differ.

My son attends a local riding school which although not big, teaches the children to ride a number of different ponies.
From a sprightly little sec A to a slow cob who needs lots of leg, to a tb x who needs a good seat... he's ridden them all. In three lessons he went from being terrified to popping a small x pole and having a little canter on his own. If he gives too much leg and ends up halfway across the school no-one rescues him. He's told how to rectify what he's done and learn from it. He helps tack up and untack too. They have own a pony weeks, they have stable management lessons, and the kids can help out at a certain age. None of the ponies stay longer than two years.

When he started I signed a piece of paper saying that horse riding is a risky sport and that I accepted that.
 
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i share your rant.....
at the age of 9, i could strip and make good a double bridle...AND ride correctly in one.....hard for small hands..but you didnt complain.....

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Snap! I was also a town kid, nobody else in the family even liked horses, so I had to learn everything from books apart from my very rare riding lessons; I haunted my local library and was on first name terms with the staff in Roffey & Clark for new horse books. It amazes me that even on here, there are the most basic things asked although I can't remember them off the top of my head and it makes me wonder if people can't be bothered or aren't keen enough to learn anything by reading any more which is very sad, both for them and their horses.
 
Things are quite different here; one has a riding instructor whom one pays on a monthy basis. He goes to shows, walks courses, supervises tack and horse purchases so it's very unusual to see an overhorsed child here. HOWEVER, I don't think there is a single livery on my yard who knows how to tack up their own horse and they certainly don't bother to check the bed has been mucked out, or the water trough has been cleaned.
I know give the titchies riding lessons at the yard and one teenage boy is a massive, whinging pain in the bum. He complains all the bl**dy time about how he doesn't like this horse or that horse, or the saddle hurts, or that he needs SPURS (I LOL at that one!) He even answered back when I told him it was TOTALLY out of order and I would absolutely not allow him to yank the RS mare's mouth (deliberately) because she was a bit skittish. If I were his parents I wouldn't allow him to ride. Brat.
 
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I agree .Here in the USA the emphasis is on "western pleasure [?]" a form of riding as challenging as being in a chair

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.......and wouldn't it be interesting to watch Americans and Europeans swap English 'pleasure' rides?
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Not a question of skill though, more of totally different styles!
 
As a child I lived at the RS. As well as 1 formal lesson per week, I would spend all day every Saturday and Sunday mucking out, grooming, feeding, sweeping and cleaning tack, just for the chance to ride a pony bareback down to the field at the end of the day. When I finally did get my own pony I was confident in being able to handle him and I enjoyed every aspect of pony ownership. My girls would love a pony but I know they're not ready for it - but it's difficult to find them the experience they need around here. It certainly is a catch 22.
 
I agree with a lot of what has been said - regarding riding schools I was very lucky as a kid and had my own pony, in those days it was very rare. In the summer hols I was allowed to keep him on livery at the local riding school as I had a friend that rode there. The highlight of the day was always riding hatless, bareback, with a headcollar in flat out gallop up to the field. Nowadays kids are wearing body protectors to go anywhere near a pony.
My daughter's first off-lead pony was a very naughty sec. A who she would take in the school on her own - she was 7 - and would potter about on her own and if she fell off she just got up and got back on. I was always around in case something went wrong but never stood watching and shouting instructions, once kids know the basics I think they need time to just develop their seat and thir confidence without concentrating too much on their position. I rarely see kids riding bareback now and at the same riding school I mentioned I just see kids plodding round the school nose to tail learning nothing!
As far as knowledge goes I think people enter into owning a horse much more lightly. I had a pony because myparents had horses. Now I see people buying ponies/horses who have very little knowledge. They buy without guidance and often end up with the wrong horse and then of course the horse gets the blame because the rider can't manage it. And don't even get me started on people buying a foal/yearling for about £200 for their kid!
Quote from an advert in my local ad-trader "WANTED - HORSE OR PONY FOR 7 YEAR OLD GIRL, MUST BE CHEAP OR FREE, MUST BE TAME....." - Words fail me!!!
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One thing I have found is that some riding schools have lessons for novice, intermediate and advanced riders. The advanced riders may just be able to stay on when jumping and are essentially still novices but they are led to believe they are advanced. Many of the parents have never had the luxury of owning a pony themselves so have no idea either that their child is no more than a novice. Hence they also overestimate their childs capabilities.
 
My daughter is on holiday staying with her daddy and nanny for a few weeks. She's just coming off the lead rein, hacking out well on her own pony and trotting at 200 mph, but had a bit of a 'thing' about the step to canter. She's 5, has a nice seat (as good as it's possibly for a top heavy 5yo to have) is great at keeping her heels down, and best of all, she naturally has good hands.

I suggested to nanny that whilst she was away, why not take her to the local riding school, and have them teach her to canter on ponies who do it day in and day out. Well she took her to another riding school, one I'd have avoided, but you know what - they have been fabulous! Day one they put her on a trustworthy pony, and had her cantering (she really was ready), and now 3 weeks later she's cantering on the same pony with her hands on her head!!! She's worked without stirrups and now mves on to different ponies. I'm shocked that a RS will still do that, but delighted (nanny is a bit bonkers and has taken her 4 days a week for 3 weeks).

Now nanny is buying her an expensive pony. I have mixed feelings, her cheap and cheerful pony at home is fine, it's a good pony and hasn't put a foot wrong. The new one is still a first pony, but bigger and more forward than the one she already has. Nanny and the instructor (who must be as mad as nanny) feel that she is very very good and should have the more talented pony, whereas I felt she should get the best out of what she has. As it is, the new one may challenge her anyway as she's so small, and cantering for 3 weeks doesn't turn her into Mary King.

Wee one thinks it's great, she's fallen for the glamourous pony and is on the phone asking when she can come hunting with me now she can do it all. This is scarey - she's 5 (6 in a few weeks) but that confidence she's got will still be so fragile, and I don't care how good she is for her age, she IS top heavy, they all are at that age. I'm worried that this could end up as one of those kids, who is showing real promise but gets ruined, but OTOH am I being a flapping over protective mummy to want to hold her back. Yes the basics are there correctly, but I'd rather they were built on slowly and continued to be correct - I see this now as me having to stop her getting over confident, her seat at her age simply isn't what an older childs one would be, good or not.

AGGGGHHHH.

Quick edit to add, just looked at PC D test, and I'd expect her to pass that now - apart from the actual reading which is beyond her reading abilities, and have a very good shot at the D+ test (advantage of hunting mummy with 4 horses and helping out every day on the yard)
 
And as for blooming Centre Pony Clubs, don't get me started.

In Branch, it is still darned hard work to get even your D test. In Centre, every other numpty has 'Gold' and one girl I know who is at best competent and might get her D+ at a push, is Platinum and don't we know it.

In my day, RS kids looked up to pony owners, but not now. The RS kids round us think they know everything, and can never be bothered with my kids who merely actually look after their own ponies, they never ever shut up about how brilliant they are and how fabulous their Instructors say they are. Ker.... ching! Most of them couldn't ride a real pony to save their lives!
 
its not the lack of 'decent' riding schools as such-least not round here its just that RS are so bound by what they cant do these days and by the prices they have to charge. when someone gets hooked on riding and wants to ride 3/4 times a week they (mistakenly) think its cheaper to buy their own. people have more money these days and stuff like riding clothes are relatively cheaper these days.
they then stick on a DIY yard with no decent help and minor incidents with the horse quickly spiral out of control. they then think they need Parelli and before you know it, a sensible wee cob finds himself on Project Horses
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I had unsuitable ponies as a kid going by todays standards but there was no question of sending them back or selling them before they were grown out of-had to learn to ride them and do the best I could with what I had.
 
As a complete novice who has only been riding for just over a year I can see the other side of the coin. Where and how do you get to learn effectively? At the BHS accredited school I went to the horses were tacked up and waiting for me to ride. I would have prefered to tack up, groom and get to know the horses but it wasn't allowed. There was no way I would have been allowed to ride bareback.

Recently I started sharing a pony as I really wanted to get more experience and ride more often. She is 14 and quite unschooled, very mareish and runs/bucks and permanently has her ears back! She is not an ideal novice ride but it seemed to be the only way that I could practise and improve.

I read as much as I can and am always asking questions but I know that I'll probably never have as much ability/experience of those who have grown up with horses but should that mean that I shouldn't own a horse?

I know that I am not nearly ready to own a horse. I know that I'm not knowledgeable enough and that my seat/balance/aids etc are not good enough but as someone mentioned it can be a catch 22 situation. How do get the experience without the practice?

Having said all that it completely amazes me people who overestimate their ability and overhorse themselves. I think that you have a responsibility as an owner and cannot understand novices wanting young/ex-racers/warmbloods if they are not sure that they will be able to look after them and be a good leader to them.
 
Zipping up my flame suit . . .

I'm now old enough to remember the "old days" and if I remember correctly there were a fair number of bad riders and wrecked horses back then, too. What we didn't have was the internet or a million "regular rider" magazines to let us know about everybody's problems in minute and repeated detail. I remember seeing some scary, scary instances of "horsemanship" and care - the sort of thing anyone on here would call the RSPCA about, let along butt in about - go practically un-commented on not because everyone was ignorant, but because the general attitude was quite a bit more permissive. The bad side of the coin.

Also, if everyone used to ride so much better how come the old people don't seem to ride any better - proportionately and relatively - now?
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Sure "kids today" make mistakes and mess things up but it's not like bad horsemanship just appeared out of the blue. Read some of the old Armada pony books - they're idealised and yet full of people (not the heroes and heroines, just those "other people") making mistakes and not knowing things.

It is true before the advent of the mobile society it was much harder to have a horse if you didn't live in a "horsey" world and therefore had more resources to draw from. It is also true that the culture used to allow for a lot more interference, especially from people in charge (although look how upset so many people get on here when someone buts into their business . . ). And H&S really has squished the learning curve in a big way, not just officially but by telling people that any risk is a bad risk and if you get hurt it MUST be someone else's fault, it couldn't possibly be through your own stupidity or ignorance. (There, that's my "take responsibility" rant.
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From what I see, there are stupid, wilfully ignorant people everywhere and many of them don't even own horses.

But generalisations and blanket condemnations of everyone who wasn't lucky enough to be able to ride when they were a kid is hardly fair, is it? I've seen a lot of people doing things "for [my] whole life" . . . badly. And I've seen some keen, sensible people try to learn everything right the first time rather than make a hundred mistakes that some poor horse has to bear.

I blame the internet.
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Everyone's an expert but no one has to prove it.
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As far as buying horses . . . so, people shouldn't buy a horse if they don't know what they're doing, right? But last week we had a post ridiculing people who took professional help to try horses they were thinking of buying . . . They were told instead to take a knowledgeable family member. I hate to say it but if you HAVE a knowledgeable family member then you're way ahead of the game and have learned a lot of what you know because someone in your family has made sure you do. A HUGE advantage.

The "returning" thing DOES amaze me. I can see why it's a good idea but surely the person buying the horse has to be responsible for their choices? Maybe that does make people much more likely to "take a shot" instead of erring on the side of caution. Sometimes it likely even works out. But it stands to reason if you think you can take a horse back like it was some sort of malfunctioning kettle you might be less inclined to make sure it was manageable in the first place.

I do TOTALLY agree people should not buy horses they can't handle but I have to say I haven't seen that isn't only a mistake people new to the sport make. I've ridden for people who "fix" horses for most of my life and there didn't seem to be a shortage 30 years ago, you just didn't hear about it all the time. The horse just went away and that was that.

Maybe I'm totally out of touch (I had a comically strict PC/BHS upbringing - the sort of old style application that could only happen in a remote foreign country - and then rode with dictatorial germans as a teen) but it doesn't seem people or horses have changed all that much, but the circumstances in which they operate have. Good and bad.
 
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