I have never been so upset

charlie76 said:
What you should have done is do a few transitions from walk or halt to trot to get the horse more active in the trot. If he was still lazy back your leg up with the stick and get the trot more active. This is what they would have wanted to see. You can't canter to a jump with a pole set at trot distance as you will be far too deep to the fence.
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^^^ This basically, although I appreciate you trotted into the fence. When I took my stage 3 many years ago I had one horse that was a slug and another that was a speed merchant, you need to show you can ride both. The examiners would want to see you achieving a good active trot, circling if necessary before attempting the jump, but not going into canter and if they felt they needed to stop you going any further then appealing will just be your word against theirs.
 
I dont think there is any point in appealling unless the examiners can see you again before they leave

An appeal would be ok if you completed the whole exam, they would re-evaluate the exam and decide whether the fail was appropriate. As you did not complete the course you would be in effect be asking them to consider passing you on the basis of a few jumps and with the best will in the world they cant really do that

I'd maybe put it all behind you. Do you need the exam to run the pony club in Morocco? I would imagine that anyone reasonably competant with a passion for horses that can teach basic riding and most importantly the husbandry side of things would be a huge bonus over there
 
Hippona said:
Sometimes the tools aren't fit for purpose...
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I agree with this.

I have been to a couple of riding schools that do BHS stages where I have been expected to ride a couple of horses that were so lazy it would have been near enough impossible to maintain a decent working trot or canter on without beating the poor thing half to death. Sometimes a lot of walk - trot transitions isn't enough to switch on a horse that has obviously completely shut down.

Of course a good rider will be able to get the best out of any horse but it is a bit much to expect someone in a riding exam to do so in 15 minutes, without ending up looking like a bag of spanners or giving it a few hard smacks (which noone wants to do and looks bad) and whilst having to follow the exam instructions to a T when the instructions might be the complete opposite of what you would actually do with a horse like that - i.e. I wouldn't bother thinking about jumping until a horse was going forward properly on the flat.

I appreciate everyone has a favourite kind of horse to ride but I do think people given really lazy horses in these exam situations are at a disadvantage because you can't start to riding properly until you can get forwards. It's hard to maintain your position or think about impulsion or bend or the line to your fence if every fibre in your being is being used just to keep the horse going forwards.
 
I am sorry but I think from what you said the examiners were harsh but fair.

You got on a horse, then despite being unable to get any impulsion you decided that you would go first. You kept informing the examiners that you needed to canter not trot, showing (or at least appearing to show) that you cannot distinguish between speed and impulsion.

You should as others have said spent the time working on transitions and direct transitions to get the horse in front of the leg. If this didn't work you could then have spoken to the examiner and explained that the horse was permanently behind the leg despite trying x,y,z. You could have said that although it didn't feel lame it did feel unresponsive and that you would prefer not to push it on the jumping incase there was something wrong with it.

They would then either have agreed to this or said that horse does tend to be behind the leg just do your best.

At least this way you have shown a knowledge of what you should be doing and the examiners would probably have given you the benefit of the doubt and at least seen you ride on something else.
 
Doogal said:
I have been to a couple of riding schools that do BHS stages where I have been expected to ride a couple of horses that were so lazy it would have been near enough impossible to maintain a decent working trot or canter on without beating the poor thing half to death. Sometimes a lot of walk - trot transitions isn't enough to switch on a horse that has obviously completely shut down.

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But from the other side of the coin, I have seen horses that act like total plods with one person on, then change completely and work perfectly for someone else. Riding school horses are particularly good at this, knowing what is the bare minimum required in effort for each rider.

OP I would wait for the written feedback, read it well, take it in after the emotions have calmed down. If there are so few exams in Hong Kong and always at the same place with limited range of horses, it may well be more difficult to do the exam there, so it could be an idea to come to the UK for a month, do some intensive training and have another go - it can't be good for your nerves to have to wait months and months to try again.

Loads of us have failed BHS exams (I failed my 2 first time round). Loads of us have got there in the end..
 
OP the title of the thread is that you've 'never been so upset,' for me unless you need this for a job or something, I'd just give up. Is it worth all the effort etc, even if it is becoming a personal crusade that you need to pass it? I agree that I'd think they'd expect you to get a tune out of any horse, and I think throwing more money at the BHS to appeal is a waste of time. They're never going to concede that they were in the wrong. Stop lining the pockets of an organisation that you believe to be unfair (I'm not sure as not read all the posts, sorry!) and concentrate on enjoying your own horses.
 
Honey08 said:
But from the other side of the coin, I have seen horses that act like total plods with one person on, then change completely and work perfectly for someone else. Riding school horses are particularly good at this, knowing what is the bare minimum required in effort for each rider.
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This.

Seen ones that barely break into a shuffle with most, turn into absolute angels with paces to die for with others.
 
So they failed you on your lack of balance. What did they fail you on the last time (sorry if you've already said in your OP)?

To be honest, you should be able to get a tune out of any horse regardless of whether it's speedy gonzales or a dobbin. You just have to ride them differently. I'm sorry you didn't pass but it does sound like they assessed you fairly if your balance was off, and it's maybe a good thing you didn't get a speedy gonzales. I wouldn't appeal, I'd get a new instructor who can teach you what you need to do to pass this test next time, and I'd try to ride bareback as often as is safe to help with your balance, or riding without stirrups/reins etc like we all did in the olden days.
 
I'd look into the other type of exams people have mentioned. I don't think much of BHS exams and its costing you money for nothing so far! I am sure given more time to warm up you would have been able to get the horse going - good riders will work out the horse they are given but I don't personally see why there needs to be such a short time limit!

Sounds great what you are doing In Morocco!
 
It's a shame that you did not pass after putting a lot of work in but I would echo what others say and perhaps get a different instructor to help you. It sounds as though the heat was also causing you some discomfort which obviously would not help matters. As far as not being able to ride at the club beforehand, many candidates in the UK go to centres they have no prior knowledge of so this is not unusual.

On the day nerves can play a huge part without people realising it. I suspect that you were trying so hard to get a lazy horse moving that your normal position and balance were compromised - we've all seen riders moving every part of their body to endeavor to get get a horse going to no avail and someone else manages to do it with far less effort.

As for coming in trot, the reason you would be asked to do so would be because the placing pole was set at the correct distance for an approach in trot. I am also fairly certain you would not be given a bounce fence, in stage 2 the grid would be approached in trot with one non jumping stride between two fences.

Nowadays assessors have to be very careful in exams and stop a candidate progressing if they feel they aren't competent as a matter of course due to insurance stipulations as if a candidate then injured themselves the BHS would be liable for allowing them to continue.

Hopefully after a rest you will feel a little better and have a plan of attack in preparation for the next time you sit it.
 
I had a similar scenario when I took my stage 2. In fact I think the Stage 3 is easier as you can show initiative, and without sounding horrible they don't put you on RS horses who struggle to stay in trot.

When I failed my stage 2 riding, I think 9 out of the 12 candidates failed - including a girl who was supposed to be a shoo in, being a Swedish Young Rider person. Along with the rest of us she transferred to another Stage 2 being run a few weeks later at a different, better venue, where I think we all sailed through.

the horses at the first venue were poor and struggling with the jumping. Mine was happy to pop 2ft 6, but I wasn't really happy to get after it and allowed it to pick it's pace and frame a bit. I felt guilty riding it and did so on a longer contact than was required, I know that's why I failed but it irritates me. A girl who seemed to be riding in the style desired by the examiners took her horse into a corner and out of sight of the examiners gave it a few good belts to sharpen it up. I had just had some intensive training with richard waygood before mine and was riding with seat and legs & not ahead of the movement and with slightly too long reins for BHS I think ( though fine for XC haha)

I feel for you OP, I might well complain, as unlike mine, it isn't clear what else you could have done short of duffing the horse up.
 
I don't think they should have asked the OP to stop the test.

There needs to be some compromise and understanding from the examiners about how much this costs people and how much effort they put in to take their exams.

If the rider doesn't look as if they are in danger, then the least they can do is give them the full exam and write up their feedback afterwards.

The OP waited two years for this, that's not her fault.

The BHS should either have more regular opportunities for people to take the exams. Or come with the understanding that some flexibility must be applied because of the adverse conditions of not being able to be tested more often.
 
Stencilface said:
FWIW you could have put a pro on that horse and the first thing they did would likely be get out a very large whip and use it when the horse was unresponsive, something that won't make you pass the BHS stage 2, but something that is pretty standard practice amongst anyone that works with horses.
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You say that, but many years ago, when I took my stage 2, I had a great lumbering cob to jump. Twice he set his jaw and carted me past a particular fence, and I thought "Sod it, I've failed anyway", so came round one more time with my stick upside down and gave him a crack down the shoulder as he went to duck out again. It wasn't pretty, but he jumped... One of the examiners said "Well ridden girl" and I passed.

I do believe that as they are professional exams, that the examiners like to see people dealing with an issue, rather than sitting there and looking pretty, or not, as the case may be.
 
Aarrghimpossiblepony said:
I don't think they should have asked the OP to stop the test.

There needs to be some compromise and understanding from the examiners about how much this costs people and how much effort they put in to take their exams.

If the rider doesn't look as if they are in danger, then the least they can do is give them the full exam and write up their feedback afterwards.

The OP waited two years for this, that's not her fault.

The BHS should either have more regular opportunities for people to take the exams. Or come with the understanding that some flexibility must be applied because of the adverse conditions of not being able to be tested more often.
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But if they felt the rider lacked balance (which is what keeps us on our horses), it would have been deemed unsafe to allow her to continue. If an accident then happened, it would be the examiners at fault. The BHS will always put safety first and they should!
 
honetpot said:
My friend who is 50+ ,has ridden and taught since she was a teenager took her BHS stages for work and thought they were a load of c**p. She passed but there is a method and a very set standard, with often what appears to be very little logic.
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This

My friend rides at very high dressage level and needed to do her bhs stages in order to be a BD accredited trainer, she went on a crash course (may have been at talland) and they said "stop riding the horse" what works in the real world isn't necessarily what the BHS want to see!
 
Not the same but for my stage 2 care section I got an old pony to lunge and did a shocking job as I just couldn't get it going forward. I moaned and moaned afterwards but ultimately the girl who lunged it after me did get it going. I can only blame myself and my ability, not the horse.
 
All this 'the BHS don't want to see you ride properly' and 'Olympic riders wouldn't pass the stages as they don't like real riding' etc is a load of crap.

In my stage 3 xc I had an absolute sod of a riding school slug to ride. He stopped at almost every fence from about 3 strides out, and bucked when I used the stick. However, I got him over every fence, using my stick and riding exactly how I do in 'the real world.' I passed, and later found out I was the only one to have done on the day, because although the horse went badly, I proved I was competent and could ride it.
3 people were asked to dismount in the sj warm up as they were unbalanced. They too thought it was unfair but tbh I felt the examiners were right to put the horses first.

OP, I'm sorry you had a bad experience, and hope you can take something positive away from it.

It does grate on me slightly though to see people bad mouthing the BHS exams so much. Most of the examiners are top eventing/dressage trainers and certainly do appreciate correct and effective riding.
 
siennamum said:
A girl who seemed to be riding in the style desired by the examiners took her horse into a corner and out of sight of the examiners gave it a few good belts to sharpen it up.
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It's an artform, giving a horse a sharp whack without an examiner or judge seeing :D Quiet a useful skill too ;)
 
Patterdale said:
It does grate on me slightly though to see people bad mouthing the BHS exams so much. Most of the examiners are top eventing/dressage trainers and certainly do appreciate correct and effective riding.
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Yes and I did say I had nothing against the ladies and they were very nice to me... it's just I felt that having to wait 2 years and only be given 15 mins was unfair but that has already been discussed, so, as advised, I'm going to try and look for the positive.
 
So it appears that they didn't stop you for cantering, they stopped you because they thought you were too unbalanced to complete the course, which may or may not have had anything to do with the canter or not. An examiner who didn't know you had to assess what they saw of you in that 15 minutes on that horse,
and make a call on your safety to do a more challenging exercise. Your riding may well in general be a LOT better than on that day but they don't know and can't take that into account,
and they don't want you to have an avoidable accident. It may be that due to exam nerves you looked as if you were going to topple out the front exit, for example.

I'll tell you a couple of stories if it makes you feel better. One is of a "grand prix dressage winner" who I could barely get a trot out of. Ended up pony club kicking, doing waaaayy too much with the whip and generally sweating far more than the horse :o The instructor wasn't too helpful, just told me that this horse won dressage competitions and that I shouldn't kick/whip so much, -but didn't tell me anything I could actually do differently in order to get him going. Helpful, much?! I used to ride other similarly experienced horses at that yard quite nicely, I just couldn't get a tune out of that horse and gave up lessons the when it became clear I was always going to be allocated the same horse and requests for more help were brushed off.

The second was a grade A showjumper elsewhere, known as the best horse on the yard abd i believe that to be true abd that i got allocated him because they felt i rode nicely enough. lovely horse, went nicely for the instructor. Went okay ish for me, but could I get this flipping animal to stop doing giraffe impressions? Could I heck :o me riding either of those horses would not have given a genuine impression of either my riding or the horse's way of going.

Sometimes we just don't gel with a horse. :o
 
No experience of BHS and sorry you're feeling down.

One thing that jumps out to me is that you say they only watched you ride for 15 mins. In that time you got the horse over three jumps, is that correct? I'm therefore assuming that they watched you during the warm up for jumping. Perhaps this also had a bearing and really their decision was based on more than the horses lack of forwardness over the small fences.

I'd recommend getting someone to film you. Watch this back and critique yourself. It's a very good learning tool.

Good luck for next time.
 
I think as bad as you feel they know best.
Jumping a double from trot with a place pole in front and stride in between in a normal exercise.

Yes it feels bouncy and untidy at the begining coming from trot but they are testing you.
 
I am generally a huge fan of the BHS I have to say and like the exam system. At Stage 3 you can use your initiative, I had a similar thing in my lunging where I wasn't particularly pretty or correct, but sorted issues created by the previous lunger and had the horse working nicely.

At lower stages there's little room for flexibility. How many ways are there to show rising trot!
 
Jumping from trot at first is so standard... you as a rider should be able to dictate the pace required. I would have thought that if you are meant to be jumping from trot, you wouldn't want to disrupt the rythym or create issues with getting the correct leg in canter before you start your approach to the jump. Surely you should have been using your seat and legs to create a well balanced, forward going trot from which to jump? Whereas going into canter implies that you are jumping from speed more than control, and cannot dictate or control the required pace.

Jumping from trot is hardly just a BHS thing...most showjumpers do it for the first couple of jumps when warming up.
 
BWa said:
Not the same but for my stage 2 care section I got an old pony to lunge and did a shocking job as I just couldn't get it going forward. I moaned and moaned afterwards but ultimately the girl who lunged it after me did get it going. I can only blame myself and my ability, not the horse.
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Love your attitude.
 
I think they should have waited till you swapped to another horse before making judgement on your riding. Feel very fed up with the Bhs exam system at the moment, think its a very unfair test of your horsemanship skills. And sometimes the horses aren't quite up to the job they supposed to do. Had a pony rear on me during the exam (said pony belonged to head examiner) and when pony was being handed to me by a helper who knew horse she whispered to me, not to take any of said pony's crap, so it was known that pony was a handful and that was at stage 1 ! Think it's a bit of a money racket, and have know very capable riders fail and also have been asked to get down before the exam really got going.
 
Feel bad for you. Obviously you've waited a long time to do this exam and traveled a long way to attend it, so to be stopped after 15 mins would be very dispiriting!

I would definitely not appeal. BHS are now run by EQL. It is run as a business. They want to make money. They are very clear that appeals can only be made if you feel you were discriminated against racially, sexually etc and that the assessors opinion of your riding is final and not open to appeal. So you will most likely be throwing good money after bad.

The BHS exams are hard. Anyone who says they're not is either disingenuous, has slipped under the radar or is a very gifted rider.

It is very challenging to get on a strange horse in a strange environment with people watching you critically and assessing you and then have a matter of minutes to get that horse going well. It is a challenge. It is up to us who take the exams to decide whether that is a challenge we are up for or not.

I failed my stage 2 flat first time round and was not allowed to even attempt the jumping. I was mortified. I have owned horse, been been riding and competing and pony clubbing since I was tiny. However, there is a big difference between riding for pleasure and in local competitions and riding to a BHS exam standard. They have set criteria and they want to see you demonstrate exactly what they want to see. I had a cry, went away and enrolled on stage 3 course (better to train to a higher level than you're aiming for) went back a few months later and passed the flat.

Now I'm working on my jumping. Again, I've been jumping for years and competing to a reasonable level but I do have bad habits and the horses they give you are not always easy. They are usually slow as they don't want any hot horses or riders being run away with! It's a safety thing. However, I have to be honest and say that horses I have struggled with in the exams have then gone sweetly for a different rider.

Ultimately I aim to keep working towards becoming a better rider; a rider who can get on any horse and get a tune from it!! This is my ultimate goal as a rider anyway and (sometimes in a painful way!) the BHS has helped me to achieve this by setting a standard to achieve.

The exams are tough and not suited to all personality types, as you are under scrutiny and the examiners are not forgiving. However, their main concern is always safety and as they only see candidates ride for a few minutes they have to make a call based on this.

I'm sure you are a very competent, skilled rider; showing that on the day is not always easy!

Take a deep breath, remind yourself that your identity as a rider does not depend on a BHS exam and carry on enjoying your riding. Maybe look at doing a different type of exam to run your club? Possible? Good luck with that by the way. Sounds like a worthy endeavour! Keep smiling!
 
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