I have never been so upset

I've seen a lot of disparaging comments on this thread to the effect of if you don't do it the BHS way forget it.

Hang on a minute - these are BHS exams - the assessment criteria are set by the BHS, as are the learning outcomes. So obviously you need to be doing it the BHS way.

It's like learning how to play the trumpet and expecting to pass a piano exam - it ain't going to happen.

Their game, their rules.
 
millreef said:
The exam takes place in a private club and we were told we weren't allowed to even use the rest rooms! They let us use one toilet but as I'm not a member I can't ride their horses to practice:( We didn't even have anywhere to eat and were told to bring all our food for the whole day - that's at a temp of over 30 degrees and 98% humidity, yummy).
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Gosh, this is an exaggeration!! I was doing the Stage 2 care so had access to the same facilities as you. There was a (very) air conditioned waiting room, the toilets had showers as well as loos and in general the facilities were similar to most exam centres I've seen in the UK.

Yes, it's true that you can't train there or use the posh clubhouse facilities but the examiners were clear that all of the equestrian areas were open to us. I could never afford to join HKJC and ride there but I can understand why members may not want a load of stinky horse riders in their clubhouse!

The examiners were all very fair from what I could tell (I may change my mind when I get the results ;)) and seemed to take into account the horse in front of them as well as the student. Perhaps nerves on the day meant your jumping position wasn't as secure as normal? I find that my position can go out of the window on a sticky horse.

Also, I know that some of the horses were specially brought in from Lei Yue Mun and Tuen Mun so maybe go to them for lessons (I think from previous posts you've ridding at LYM?) and as for the exam horses.

I know how you feel as I've taken issue with BHS examiners in the past and I have written a complaint (though not an appeal) in the past. I wouldn't waste money on an appeal as they'll just send you back a facile letter about examination quality assurance..!
 
If it makes you feel better, Millreef, I failed my Stage 1 first time out. I just didn't ride as I would normally, sat there like a pillock.

Maybe you failed because your riding is equally uphauling as mine was?

You need to give yourself a kick up the bum, get some more lessons, ride some different horses and get on with it - you could do the easier exams/coaching nonsense but we all know they are the horsey equivalent of NVQ Level 1s. ;)

S :D
 
How about you get someone to film you doing the same exercise riding a more suitable horse. Post on youtube or whatever people do to make it really easy for someone to watch - and appeal to someone at Stoneleigh to just take a look to see your predicament.
The new Chief Executive at the BHS, Lyn Petersen, really wants to make good changes and this is just the sort of matter the BHS wants to address. After all, I believe, they are our biggest welfare organisation in Britain and if we can help them improve we should.
Good Luck
 
diamonddogs said:
I've seen a lot of disparaging comments on this thread to the effect of if you don't do it the BHS way forget it.

Hang on a minute - these are BHS exams - the assessment criteria are set by the BHS, as are the learning outcomes. So obviously you need to be doing it the BHS way.

It's like learning how to play the trumpet and expecting to pass a piano exam - it ain't going to happen.

Their game, their rules.
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Exactly this! Well put.

Also, I see so many people with huge gaps in their knowledge. BHS may be seen as to 'clinical' but they are usually a good 'all round' qualification.

OP, as some others have said, it is quite common to fail first time. Your problem would seem to be access to exams. I can only say, Good Luck for next time :).
 
My daughter has recently failed the jumping stage two-twice- this inspite of competing on our own horses!
Having looked at their remarks,and her position,although feel it maybe slightly harsh, the comments were justified.
She did find riding an unknown riding school plod very difficult,inspite of having a few lessons at the exam centre beforehand,and she felt that did not help. However,she needs to get her head round these plods and accept that on the whole at stage 2 that is what to expect.
Hopefully it will be third time lucky for her! And second time for you.
 
2horsesnomoney said:
Ok so sorry I dont mean to sound harsh but...
The examiners must have felt you were fairly unsafe to not let you jump the course, as this is not often done. Also at stage 2 you should be able to get any horse jumping over a small fence in trot. did you have a whip? Did you use it? and did you change something after the first jumpe was not so good? if you just ride around aimlessly you cannot expect to go though you need to change something and show them you know how to adapt to the horse. You should recieve exactly why they failed you in writing a few weeks after the exam.
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I do think the op has had a bit of a rough deal, the "blurb" at stage 2 asks you be able to ride well schooled horses, she didnt ask for a free pass, just another chance to show her on a more forward horse i dont think theres anything wrong with that. I dont care how effective a rider you think you are, we've all sat on horses who make it very hard work to get going even with a whip, its hardly what you would want handed to you to showcase your riding in an exam.
Having completed stages 1-3 i saw quite a few people on horses that were brought out to be used in exams that were'nt up to the job. I saw one poor girl go xc on a horse i knew would not go over a ditch in the xc test, even the BHS instructors couldnt get it over and the "commander" running the exam knew this as well. I had a nasty bronking horse in my stage 2 again known to do this by the centre which brought it out for use, where is that a well schooled horse ? I have no time for it all now, the exams are just a money making archaic system.
OP if you can ride you'll get on in the industry without the over rated BHS certs, i know plenty of people who have.
 
Shilasdair said:
If it makes you feel better, Millreef, I failed my Stage 1 first time out. I just didn't ride as I would normally, sat there like a pillock.

Maybe you failed because your riding is equally uphauling as mine was?

You need to give yourself a kick up the bum, get some more lessons, ride some different horses and get on with it - you could do the easier exams/coaching nonsense but we all know they are the horsey equivalent of NVQ Level 1s. ;)

S :D
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We have some great coaches out there, I have an international eventer coaching me, hardly teaching at nvq level 1 :confused:
My dressage coaches are a BHS I and also a self taught classical rider who are excellent. The days of the BHS is the only way are long gone and tbh im glad, its made the establishment take a long hard look at themselves and make changes which should hopefully drag them into this century.
 
I started doing my BHS exams (stopped after stage 1). Instructor friend who tutored me went through SM, & some things I did different way (like I never deep littler shavings - at the time the BHS insisted was only way to manage shavings bed). What she said to me was yes there are different ways of doing things, but if you don't tell the examiners what they want to hear they will fail you, they aren't interested in alternative ways or discussions. Since getting into endurance I have found out how backward many BHS ideas are & rooted in the past.

The other thing was, I rode at the riding school where the exam was held. A few weeks before the exam some candidates appeared in our lessons to get used to the horses. Our instructor did say though that regular riding school clients were given the best horses (as in ones they knew would suit them & they knew well) for the exam, so there was definate bias.

The BHS do a job, but they aren't the fountain of knowledge. Consider taking alternative exams or if you wish to retake this, practise of dead cobs so if you get one again you know you'll be able to motivate it.
 
Mithras said:
Jumping from trot is hardly just a BHS thing...most showjumpers do it for the first couple of jumps when warming up.
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Er, sorry but what? Eventers may do this, but showjumpers wouldn't be seen dead jumping from trot, most don't even trot in their warm up its all walk to canter.
 
Being able to jump competently from trot is a basic that all should have, whether you go on to it routinely when further on in your training is irrelevant .
I have worked with many eventer and showjumper over the years and must say that i can't think of one showjumper who did not jump from trot when training and making assessments of riders and younger horses.
 
Op is your trainer BHS qualified and have you been assessed by more than one different BHS trainer? I say this because I failed my stage 3 riding first time. I took it at the centre I trained at and my trainers watched my exam. They were shocked I failed and told me to appeal and rebook immediately! I didn't want to appeal and also didn't want to waste my money rebooking to then fail again, so went for a 2nd opinion. I didn't give them my exam sheet till after the assessment and everything they picked up on was what I'd failed on. I trained with them fit a few months, retook and passed.

In my stage 3 flat I had a horse that was like riding a plank of wood. I was not getting anything out if it. As I rode past the examined he was talking to the centre caller and I heard her say 'that horse is never ridden in a snaffle, only a double'. Great! There's me trying to get it to work in a snaffle!!! Few minutes later the examiner called me over to talk through what I was doing. I told him my thoughts on the horses way of going and he turned and looked me in the eye and said 'good, now get after it'. I am SO grateful he said that as I knew exactly what he meant. I buckled down, was a lot firmer with him and he then worked nicely.

Op my thoughts are to go away and get reassessed and spend time getting balanced and riding effectively on lazy horses. Good luck!
 
pip6 said:
I started doing my BHS exams (stopped after stage 1). Instructor friend who tutored me went through SM, & some things I did different way (like I never deep littler shavings - at the time the BHS insisted was only way to manage shavings bed). What she said to me was yes there are different ways of doing things, but if you don't tell the examiners what they want to hear they will fail you, they aren't interested in alternative ways or discussions. Since getting into endurance I have found out how backward many BHS ideas are & rooted in the past.

The other thing was, I rode at the riding school where the exam was held. A few weeks before the exam some candidates appeared in our lessons to get used to the horses. Our instructor did say though that regular riding school clients were given the best horses (as in ones they knew would suit them & they knew well) for the exam, so there was definate bias.

The BHS do a job, but they aren't the fountain of knowledge. Consider taking alternative exams or if you wish to retake this, practise of dead cobs so if you get one again you know you'll be able to motivate it.
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Sorry, I know many of the stories being quoted are simply not true.

I have been an examiner (or assessor as we're now called) for over 20 years so feel qualified to comment. At no time has the BHS insisted that deep litter is the only way to manage a deep litter bed.

The horses are not allocated by the exam centre so it's not the case that internal candidates get the best horses. Horses are often allocated on the basis of riders size and if all are similar I usually ask who knows the horses and allow the external candidates to choose their first horse before the internal candidates. When it comes to changing horses I will often move a candidate onto a horse I feel is more suited to them eg if they have ridden a big moving horse and have struggled a bit I will try and put them on something more cobby to allow them to show what they are capable of or perhaps move the candidate who has struggled to get a horse going forward on to a more forward going, responsive one then make a decision based on the overall performance.

There is definitely no mandate to fail candidates in order to make more money money for the BHS. The exam system has changed dramatically over the years, there is no BHS way, things have to be done safely for obvious reasons with the welfare of the horse being paramount. The ability to do the generic UKCC exams alongside the teaching and stages exams demonstrates this and gives those candidates qualifications that show they have a good knowledge of equine care as well as coaching ability.

As far as cost of exams is concerned have you ever stopped to think how much it costs to run an exam? The exam centre has to be paid for use of their facilities and horses - a full stage 1 or 2 will require a minimum of 18 horses, probably more. Centre staff will have a lot of extra work to be ready for an exam in the morning on top of their usual tasks. The assessors need to be paid plus travel expenses as many travel quite a distance and then there are all the admin costs involved in booking exams, checking and sending out results etc. On top of this there is insurance, training and monitoring of assessors and checking and liasing with exam centres. There is a lot of behind the scenes work and surely it's only fair that the exam fees reflect this?

There are many urban myths about the BHS, often stemming from "my friend / instructor heard / said" which are probably started by someone unhappy because they have failed an exam. No one likes to fail but if standards are to be maintained and respected some failures will occur. Everyone knows of brilliant riders who have failed exams but it's always possible they had a bad day, nerves got the better of them, they have engrained bad habits habits etc, etc. The exams aren't aimed at producing competition riders, they're aimed at producing competent, employable workers for the industry.
 
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I was trained and ride in the classical stylie; I ride a lot of different horses everyday, and although I am flexible in style (if not in body LOL), I always stick to the same method, using weight aids and relying vey little on reins - I keep a really soft contact, with just a little 'spidery tickle' down the reins for encouragement.

For my stage 1 ridden, I had 'proper' BHS lessons and it took me ages to adjust to the slightly stronger contact and to make my aids 'more obvious'. I passed first time, but had to keep remembering to do things their way. If you can give them what they are looking for, you will pass.
 
millreef said:
. I was doing exactly what they asked me to do but the blinking horse was sooooo lumpy.
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Id like to ask what you mean by 'lumpy'. do you mean uncomfortable? Im assuming they thought you werent strong enough to get impulsion in trot, you do have to show you can ride all different types of horses well, not just the easy ones!
But I didnt think they would actually eliminate you unless you were unsafe.
Having said that, I think the BHS exams are rather 'narrow minded' in the way you have to do things- its their way or no way, even if there is no logical reason.
 
Patterdale said:
Completely agree EventingMum.

Many people slag off the BHS exams because its seen as trendy to do that at the moment : rolleyes: or because an examiner dared to fail them.
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I can assure you I've never failed (never taken an exam bar the PC ones) and my opinion of the BHS way of doing things has remained the same for the last 15 years, so certainly not because its trendy. ;)
 
Stencilface said:
Er, sorry but what? Eventers may do this, but showjumpers wouldn't be seen dead jumping from trot, most don't even trot in their warm up its all walk to canter.
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?? Trotting over a cross pole for your first one or two warm up jumps is pretty standard and I see at maybe half of all BS competitors, including plenty of Olympic and national level riders, doing it at BS shows.

How odd.

Agreed that once you have cantered you tend to stay in canter and not go back to trot, but you've never heard of trotting over a cross pole to warm up? Seriously?

I've just had a lesson with Corinne Bracken who was very keen on doing so at the start of your warm up.
 
I went the NPS route, which unfortunately they no longer do, rather than the BHS route when I took my exams, but the principle was the same. What I liked about the NPS route was that although you went for an exam, if you messed up a bit of it you could go back and re-take just that part. That took a lot of the pressure off me and as a result I think I performed better (and I passed).

I was quite lucky in the jumping as I saw the horse I was allocated to jump do a round with one of the other candidates first and I noticed that he was very sticky, difficult to get going, and prone to stopping. So, when I got on him I had a discreet 'word' with him out of the view of the examiner, and for about the only time in my life before or since I got the timing absolutely right and the horse decided to find some impulsion. Otherwise I think my round would have been very similar to the OPs as jumping is really not my strong point.
 
Mithras said:
?? Trotting over a cross pole for your first one or two warm up jumps is pretty standard and I see at maybe half of all BS competitors, including plenty of Olympic and national level riders, doing it at BS shows.

How odd.

Agreed that once you have cantered you tend to stay in canter and not go back to trot, but you've never heard of trotting over a cross pole to warm up? Seriously?

I've just had a lesson with Corinne Bracken who was very keen on doing so at the start of your warm up.
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I agree - I worked at Whitakers' a few years ago and Robert would routinely trot over things to get them to pick their feet up. It is a pretty basic skill and although I do prefer to jump out of a canter I wouldn't question the need to have an ability to jump out of a decent trot.
 
My friend passed first time, 30 years of previous experience, basically thought it was a joke and did it the 'right way' to get through. One of the other candidates who she thought was the best horse person there but had not been prepped properly failed.
I have been taught in the past by a Fellow,and found her teaching inspiring and she was as happy riding a NF pony as GP dressage horse. I do not think its the examiners but the system they are forced to use and sometimes I wonder how much of the teaching is evidence based.
I am a nurse and although the objectives of nursing stays the same we have to examine how we do things and outcomes all the time. The BHS is now a organisation that tries to do too much it would be far better if the examination system was passed over to experts in that field. Some of the most relevant teaching I have had has been from people with not a piece of paper to their name.
There is always a safe way to do things and it can be a matter of judgement whether the person is safe doing the task they are allocated to do, I have seen people with BHS qualifications do some stupid things whilst teaching my children, when questioned the reply is that is how it is taught even though the practice is unsafe.
 
I do agree that the examiners / assessors seem limited by the 'BHS way'. My final section yesterday was the theory section on feeding et al, and we gave answers that followed the BHS manual (though against my personal beliefs, particularly on forage / concentrate percentages!). At the end the examiner said that almost nobody in the UK would feed 30%+ concentrate these days - I wasn't clear on whether you'd pass or fail if you said something other than the book response though so I think I'll play it safe if I have to retake anything ;)

The instructor I trained with for BHS exams in the UK suggested that you should follow 'the book' up to stage 2 and above that there is more flexibility as the assumption is that you know the basics and how to be safe. As others have said there are a lot of rumours about what you can and can't do on BHS exams so who knows!
 
RunToEarth said:
I agree - I worked at Whitakers' a few years ago and Robert would routinely trot over things to get them to pick their feet up. It is a pretty basic skill and although I do prefer to jump out of a canter I wouldn't question the need to have an ability to jump out of a decent trot.
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Mithras said:
?? Trotting over a cross pole for your first one or two warm up jumps is pretty standard and I see at maybe half of all BS competitors, including plenty of Olympic and national level riders, doing it at BS shows.

How odd.

Agreed that once you have cantered you tend to stay in canter and not go back to trot, but you've never heard of trotting over a cross pole to warm up? Seriously?

I've just had a lesson with Corinne Bracken who was very keen on doing so at the start of your warm up.
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You both clearly missed my :p and ;) post. :rolleyes:

With plenty of name dropping in for good measure, congratulations ;)
 
Patterdale said:
Well in your case then stencilface it's probably just hormones ;) :D
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How rude! :p

I can assure you I am not hormonal at all, and didn't rip the hands (or face!) off the woman who felt she could let herself fondle my non-existent bump at the weekend, that went down like a ***** sandwich I can assure you :mad:
 
Funny how many of the people putting the exams down are the ones who have failed them!
To say that a qualification means nothing is rude to the people who have worked hard to achieve them.
I passed all of mine, was I put in wonderful horses, no, I wasn't, I rode all sorts, sharp, quiet, spooky, lazy .
I made sure that I trained on every type of horse, that I learnt to quickly assess it and work it accordingly. I also made sure I developed enough depth of knowledge to discuss the horse with the examiner and justify what I did with each horse. I also did the same with the lunge horses.
I made sure I taught all levels and standards before my teaching exam and I went to plenty of demos,lessons and competitions.
Passing these exams takes work and commitment.
Is also rubbish to say you only pass if you do things the bhs way, if you are safe, efficient and effective and have the knowledge to discuss you will pass.
 
Stencilface said:
You both clearly missed my :p and ;) post. :rolleyes:

With plenty of name dropping in for good measure, congratulations ;)
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Sorry, I don't really "do" smileys so not quite sure how they influence what you wrote, does the use of a winky/rollseyes smiley mean that you do actually see showjumpers trot into fences? It wasn't name dropping so much as demonstrating that if higher level showjumpers use trotting poles/fences to warm horses up then it can't actually be something that not many people do in BS. Did that make sense?
 
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