cptrayes
Well-Known Member
You are not wrong either Wagtail. We are just different, that's all. I am so sorry you are having such a hard time this year 
I know it's 'curtains' but...(laminitis abscess)
- Thread starter Wagtail
- Start date
Wagtail
Horse servant
You are not wrong either Wagtail. We are just different, that's all. I am so sorry you are having such a hard time this year
Thanks, Cptrayes. I have to say however, I would not be doing this for any other horse.
Micky
Well-Known Member
Has she had a blood test for ems (insulin resistance) wagtail? Its very odd re her feet......
I feel for you hugely,( old stroke ridden dog, anaemic cat (not curable) and a cushings horse, all in space of 4 months, i feel 4 you).... you must do whats right, i cant help but try to help...good luck
I feel for you hugely,( old stroke ridden dog, anaemic cat (not curable) and a cushings horse, all in space of 4 months, i feel 4 you).... you must do whats right, i cant help but try to help...good luck
Wagtail
Horse servant
Yes the test was done twice and was negative. But I put her on metformin in any case. I think it helped her lose weight, but by the summer, it was not helping her. I have taken her off it. She has not had an actual laminitis attack now though since the spring. So I am happy that I have her laminitis under control. I am now fighting with the damage that LGL has left her with.
I spoke to the vet last night. We are going to xray the foot. If it shows any marked rotation, sinkage or bone damage, then I will Put her to sleep. If everything looks good, then I will persevere.
I spoke to the vet last night. We are going to xray the foot. If it shows any marked rotation, sinkage or bone damage, then I will Put her to sleep. If everything looks good, then I will persevere.
ozpoz
Well-Known Member
I don't have any advice Wagtail, but it is clear you are doing everything you can for her. I think you can safely trust your decision, judging by what you have written.
I hope things get easier for you soon.
I hope things get easier for you soon.
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
I do so feel for you Wagtail. When I had my mare pts the decision was made for me by my vet - my girl had gas pockets and the necrotic laminae caused her sole to break down. We could not risk pedal bone penetrating, which undoubtedly would have happened. I felt like I had been cheated losing her so quickly after 3 months, but really when I read tales like yours and Levaithans fights I realise my road was actually the far easier one. So much harder when there is hope and no clearcut route. You can only go with your gut and your vets advice.
Adopter
Well-Known Member
Just to say so sorry, whatever you decide will be the right decision.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Thank you
How awful about your girl. It really must have been a severe laminitis attack to cause all that damage so quickly. But you are right, in a way it is easier having the decision made for you. Doesn't make it hurt any less though. Just removes the uncertainty.
I think my main 'problem' is that my mare has never had a really severe laminitis attack. It has always been very low grade. In the past I would have just called it 'footiness'. I had been wondering why she never got an abscess, but now we have one and it may spell the end for her. I have always said I would not box rest her. Because I know the prognosis would not be good for a full recovery. So if the xrays show any marked rotation then I think I have to make the decision to PTS as she would need to be on prolonged box rest to get it right and I don't want her to end her days that way. If she was younger, then yes, I would go for it, but with her history, I know that we would be on a downwards spiral.
Thank you
Just waiting for the vets office to ring to arrange the xrays. I am so nervous.
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone have said this already, but I was sure that I had heard that you could shoe a horse so that the toe wasn't covered, and as an example I found this through Google image search:
Quoted from Farrier services by Gary Werner - http://www.myluckyshoes.com/mls/casestudies.htm
Reversed Natural Balance Shoe
This horse had prior bouts of laminitis and had a significant club foot. I applied a Natural Balance Aluminum Shoe, glued reversed, creating an open toe. The shoe was 1.5 x longer than existing foot. It was adhered with Equilox Acrylic and will pull hoof to encourage a greater circumference. Over the long term, repeating this procedure will increase the hoof size. Support is magnified as is structural integrity. /quote
I don't know if that is to any help for your mare or not, but I thought you should know that the option exists. It isn't easy to be in your situation, we don't want to wait until they no longer enjoy life, but at the same time, it is difficult to end their life when they still are enjoying it.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Thank you. It may well be of help if I go down the shoeing route. Thank you.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Just thought I had better make it clear that I am in no way criticising anyone who choses to box rest their horse for laminitis. In some cases the laminitis is so bad there is no other option. It may also be that it's a one off and the prognosis is very good, especially with younger animals.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Twice in fairly recent history I've been in a similar sort of situation. One was our pony who quite unexpectedly came down with laminitis whilst I was out of the country. She was in a terrible way and I did have the vet booked in to have her put to sleep. When the vet arrived I saw a glimmer in the pony's eyes and I called it off. That day was not her day to die. I worked closely with my vet and had xrays taken on a regular basis. There were ups and downs throughout but always more progress than regression. That was 10 years ago. She's flown half way round the world and has lived here laminitis free during that time. She's old now and is retired but she happily plods around her field. The second mare was one of my personal horses who I bred to my stallion 7 years ago. She came down with abcess upon abcess within a few months into her pregnancy. She was lame throughout and the vet diagnosed her as having navicular. Prognosis was to have her put down. I was not at ease with having her put to sleep whilst she was pregnant so we persevered throughout until the foal was born. My plan was to keep her until weaning and then she would be put down. However once she foaled she came totally sound and has remained so ever since. Of course I would never ever consider putting her in foal again as I do believe that some hormones were at play and for whatever reason pregnancy did not suit her body. Shame as she's a beautiful and stunningly bred mare.
So all I can say is this, if you're content to keep plugging away and your mare is happy then you have to make choices based on what you see every day. Sometimes the journey is long.
So all I can say is this, if you're content to keep plugging away and your mare is happy then you have to make choices based on what you see every day. Sometimes the journey is long.
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
Wagtail my mare got lami some years back she was 22 was semi retired from riding and mainly lived in the field due to djd in the stifle, she was diagnosed on 17 August and vet said to box rest for at least a month, had feet xrayed no rotation just some sinking, was advised to have heart bar shoes once she was more comfortable, I think she had them put on about 6 weeks later and I thought they would say she could go out, no vet still wanted her in but I thought I could put her in the menage with a haynet and she could nibble the hedges which we did for a few weeks and she was doing ok she was sound but they still wanted her on box rest, anyway after speaking to a friend I decided I was going to start putting her out with a muzzle for short periods, so I was all set to go and buy a muzzle on the Friday after work and then turn her out, then on friday morning I get a call from the yard girl saying she found her in a sweating mess in her stable, so I rang my vet who was away so got a locum sent out I got there just as the vet did, he confirmed it was colic and it was bad the initial injection of muscle relaxant and pain killer did nothing, so he gave her something else stronger which did stop the colic for a short while, this horse never had colic in the 13 years I had had her, vet then said he thought the large intestine had flipped over her spleen and that only surgery would confirm this, she was in agony we tried to see if the colic would stop with further drugs but it just got worse and due to her age and the fact she had lami and I had no insurance cover for an op I had her pts on the 17 October exactly two months after the diagnosis.
In hindsight I so wish I had started to turn her out earlier but I took the vets advice and kept her in against my better judgement, who knows she may have got colic even with the turnout but I really dont think being stood in for two months did her much good, especialy for a horse that is used to being out most of the time, so I would go with your gut instinct and do what you think is best for your horse, I am older and wiser now and I would have done it differently, do you have a small bald area your horse can go for a few hours a day I think even this is better than box rest?
In hindsight I so wish I had started to turn her out earlier but I took the vets advice and kept her in against my better judgement, who knows she may have got colic even with the turnout but I really dont think being stood in for two months did her much good, especialy for a horse that is used to being out most of the time, so I would go with your gut instinct and do what you think is best for your horse, I am older and wiser now and I would have done it differently, do you have a small bald area your horse can go for a few hours a day I think even this is better than box rest?
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Sorry about what happened with you and your mare. You did what you did at the time and you did the best you could with the advice you were given. I did turn our pony out as soon as she was able and I do agree with you, it was the turning point for my mare and she improved no end.
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
Thank you it really upset me for a long while after she was pts I kept blaming myself,but over the years I have learnt that you can only do your best and what you think is right for them at the time, I still live in fear of Laminitis though for the two horses I have now its such an awful condition, I am glad your pony made a good recovery.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
You're so right. I think anyone who has been involved with horses for years has the same regrets, the same 'what ifs' and 'if only's'. I know I have over certain decisions I've made. But we only have what we have to go on. We do our best to research and speak to as many knowledgeable people as we can about our options. Then we take the decision. The decision is never taken lightly and sometimes things come to light after we've made that decision so then we feel guilt or sadness over what might have been. We just have to live with it and as time goes on you do see that the choices you made were the best ones at the time.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Thank you. It is really good to hear the success stories. I think I have yet to discover really what is my mare's trigger. She now weigh tapes at only 475 kg which is very lean for a 15.3 hh WB. But she looks more 'racing fit' than bony. I have the laminitis well under control at the moment. Vet confirmed that she does not currently have it. So I am having the xrays done tomorrow to see what the state of her foot is, and will take it from there. With hindsight, if I had known the future, I would have always kept this mare lean. I firmly believe this would have prevented this situation occurring. On the hopeful side, the vet does not expect to see anything sinister in the xrays. He said that if there was marked rotation, sinkage or any bone infection, she would not be coming sound with a poultice. So fingers crossed...
Wagtail
Horse servant
I am so sorry to hear about your mare. I think that vets are overly cautious when advising strict box rest for laminitics. I think that if they are relatively comfortable, then movement increases blood flow and aids healing and flushing out of toxins. Obviously, if the horse is in the midst of an acute attack, then box rest is imperative to help prevent further rotation or sinkage. But my personal view is that this should only be during the acute stage. Many vets would disagree.
We are lucky enough to have a sand turnout which is slightly smaller than a standard size 40 x 20 manege. We managed both laminitics this year by confining them to that, even when one (not my mare) was having a very acute attack (he was like a cat on a hot tin roof, poor thing, so he didn't move too far). He was comfortable within 24 hours and appeared fully recovered in three days.
Vets do not always get it right. I have learned that many times over. It's sad when you are advised against your own instincts and it ends in tragedy. At least you know it was not the other way around. I am so sorry about your mare.
YellowBoots
Well-Known Member
This might sound harsh, and I don't mean it to.
Stop panicking about box rest and lami. X-ray the foot and figure out exactly what you're dealing with. Odds on, it's an abscess which are a pain in the bum but usually resolve with time and treatment. Abscesses don't need box rest- the horse is better off moving about to get it to pop. Try putting a small air activated heat pack under the poultice so it stays warm for longer. (Test it first- some of them get really hot!) What are you soaking/wrapping with? Try Epsom salt in a wet nappy and tape it around the hoof. (It sounds stupid but nappies hold quite a bit of liquid and they're quite tough. Plus, they're cushy enough to give a bit of padding.)
Look into hoof boots for her- there are a lot of options out there and they'll probably work out cheaper than glue-on shoes. You can buy pads to go in them, or use something like Styrofoam that will compress and support the hoof.
What does your farrier think?
I'd dealt with abscesses a few times my my boy. Last one had him three legged lame but he's back to 100% and out competing!
Stop panicking about box rest and lami. X-ray the foot and figure out exactly what you're dealing with. Odds on, it's an abscess which are a pain in the bum but usually resolve with time and treatment. Abscesses don't need box rest- the horse is better off moving about to get it to pop. Try putting a small air activated heat pack under the poultice so it stays warm for longer. (Test it first- some of them get really hot!) What are you soaking/wrapping with? Try Epsom salt in a wet nappy and tape it around the hoof. (It sounds stupid but nappies hold quite a bit of liquid and they're quite tough. Plus, they're cushy enough to give a bit of padding.)
Look into hoof boots for her- there are a lot of options out there and they'll probably work out cheaper than glue-on shoes. You can buy pads to go in them, or use something like Styrofoam that will compress and support the hoof.
What does your farrier think?
I'd dealt with abscesses a few times my my boy. Last one had him three legged lame but he's back to 100% and out competing!
ATrueClassAct
Well-Known Member
I know the shoeing option isn't the best :/ but it's like our last chance to make sure she keeps stable. Once her sole has thickened she will most likely go barefoot again. The farrier I'm trusting is one I've seen fantastic success stories with and I've met living proof of one his work with a lovely little horse that was advised PTS by the ladies old vet. Old lady wasn't advised box rest this time round by vet or farrier. She's just in her wood chip pen all day with soaked hay.
Best of luck tomorrow, we've got x rays too and our head vet is coming out to give his prognosis. I might have "the talk" with him just to see what he feels now.
Hopefully your mare will be absolutely fine tomorrow and it's just a horrid abscess
Best of luck tomorrow, we've got x rays too and our head vet is coming out to give his prognosis. I might have "the talk" with him just to see what he feels now.
Hopefully your mare will be absolutely fine tomorrow and it's just a horrid abscess
Wagtail
Horse servant
Well the news this morning is I had put a dry poultice on her last night and she didn't go lame! The only difference is that I sprayed her foot and into the hole with terramycin. Anyway, I will still get the xrays done in case there is any light they can shed on her condition.
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Wagtail
Horse servant
This might sound harsh, and I don't mean it to.
Stop panicking about box rest and lami. X-ray the foot and figure out exactly what you're dealing with. Odds on, it's an abscess which are a pain in the bum but usually resolve with time and treatment. Abscesses don't need box rest- the horse is better off moving about to get it to pop. Try putting a small air activated heat pack under the poultice so it stays warm for longer. (Test it first- some of them get really hot!) What are you soaking/wrapping with? Try Epsom salt in a wet nappy and tape it around the hoof. (It sounds stupid but nappies hold quite a bit of liquid and they're quite tough. Plus, they're cushy enough to give a bit of padding.)
Look into hoof boots for her- there are a lot of options out there and they'll probably work out cheaper than glue-on shoes. You can buy pads to go in them, or use something like Styrofoam that will compress and support the hoof.
What does your farrier think?
I'd dealt with abscesses a few times my my boy. Last one had him three legged lame but he's back to 100% and out competing!
Thnks. Yes, I know that horses are best out and moving with an abscess. My fear is that the xrays would show something that would mean she needed to be box rested. And my point was that I was not prepared to do that.
She already has boots and pads. I removed one of the pads so that I could use it as a poultice boot. Trouble is, long term wear bruises her heels despite having them fitted with gaiters.
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
If she only could tell you whether something was going on that you really needed to worry about, or whether it is just a matter of getting the abscess fixed, and she'll be fine. Fingers crossed that it continues onwards and upwards.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Good news!!!
The xrays were great. Absolutely no rotation and no bony changes at all. Xrayed from all directions. Clean lines, lovely clearly defined and perfectly shaped pedal bone. There was a gas pocket at the toe which confirmed that her latest problem was an abscess. So, I am to continue to dry poultice and keep the hole sprayed with terramycin. Toe is a bit long so farrier booked to trim, then have to think about a long term solution to manage and protect the compromised white line.
To top it off, she trotted up 100% sound on concrete, flicking her toes, with no boots and turned both ways perfectly So happy!!!
The xrays were great. Absolutely no rotation and no bony changes at all. Xrayed from all directions. Clean lines, lovely clearly defined and perfectly shaped pedal bone. There was a gas pocket at the toe which confirmed that her latest problem was an abscess. So, I am to continue to dry poultice and keep the hole sprayed with terramycin. Toe is a bit long so farrier booked to trim, then have to think about a long term solution to manage and protect the compromised white line.
To top it off, she trotted up 100% sound on concrete, flicking her toes, with no boots and turned both ways perfectly So happy!!!
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Aw that's great :smile3: I'd just keep plugging away with what is working. Turnout and unshod is always a preferred option for me as it's what has worked for mine.
Archangel
Well-Known Member
That is excellent news, I bet you are flicking your toes out yourself.
WelshRuby
Well-Known Member
Phew! so pleased for you
Wagtail
Horse servant
Thanks. Yes, I would prefer to keep her unshod. I always worry that with horses that are prone to laminitis that shoes may disguise the first signs of the disease.
Thank you!
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
Wagtail
Horse servant
Woohoo!
Thank you. The vet said that if I can keep her sound for another 3 weeks then there is no reason why I can't start to ride her again as this would make it easier to manage her weight without having to restrict her so much.