I need advice on how to fatten up my 16yr TB! Please help me to help him...poor boy!

Holly Hocks said:
Ok - here goes - again!! I keep bringing these photos out every time there is a weight gain thread!!!
Before: This was about two days after she came home from a 3 month stay at hospital

blueresize2.jpg


This was about two sacks of feed later - coupled with ad lib haylage

013.jpg


The readymash (and you need Readymash Extra for weight gain) is made by a company called Rowen and Barbary - if you google them the website will come up. I had to get my feed store to order it in for me as it's not something they all hold all the time. You soak it for about 10 minutes with the same volume of water - a bag was about £14 when I was buying it but it lasted a long time. I didn't add anything extra to the feed apart from the water.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics! She looks good. So you fed this mash and only this mash???? X
 
Also just to say ready mash is high in sugar containing cereals so would be heating. I tried it but didn't really rate it. It was also expensive. Fast fibre and linseed is dead cheap and lasts ages per sack. Charnwood milling sell linseed in big sacks and they are reliable. Good luck
 
Interesting that he is stressy in his stable..my TB is very laid back but always loses condition when stabled due to his cribbing. We never stable him know and let him eat as much hay/haylage as he likes 24/7. I honestly think your horsey needs a change of routine if you are going to achieve a well and stress free horse. TB's are fantastic horses but sometimes keeping things simple is the best way forward with them and it seems to me that there is alot of sugars etc in his feeds which are giving him nervous stressy energy, resulting in weight loss which is obviously the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.
 
Yes as I remember I didn't feed anything other than the Readymash. I seem to remember she was fussy at the beginning so I had to add some high fibre cubes to get her interested, but after a few days I didn't need to add them any more.

But there are some other fantastic ideas on here re feed - someone mentioned Pure Feeds as well - that's also another feed that I really like - it's a really clean feed and something with hindsight I think I might have used instead, just because of the starch and cereal levels of the Readymash. But at the time I just had to make a quick decision...
 
claribella said:
I would cut back to ad lib hay and haylage night nd day if you can then just feed fast fibre with micronised linseed mixed in. It's amazing stuff. I'd Los leave a bucket of fast fibre in the stable over night so horse can graze on it. This is the only thing hat has worked for my fussy poor doer.
Click to expand...

Ok, so is sounds good with t being non-heating etc.is the micronised linseed like a chaff looking thing?! Would I need a mix with it? I can only give admin hay and haylage at night?!! X
 
Micronised linseed is a powder - thats one of the things that makes it so great, it doesnt add bulk to the feed, you dont want to be feeding enormous feeds - you need to find feed that works and that they can digest easily rather than overloading them with bulk. (IMO)


Ive got a similar problem with my mare, though shes 6. I was very spoilt with my last mare as I just had to show her a feed catalogue and she'd put weight on - Grape bless her is a tall lanky TB who doesnt hold weight anywhere near as well as Red did, Ive just bought a sack of micronised linseed to add to her feed (winergy condition which worked brilliantly on my old horse,but doesnt seem to be doing much for her at all!) in the hope that it makes the difference...

Good luck - Ive used R&B extra mash - worked a treat, and is on my list of things to think about, if you dont want the sugar content, they also do one called SOLUTION MASH which is very good as well (but made for laminitics/EMS horses, so doesnt have anywhere near the sugar content but they do do quite well with that too)
 
redriverrock said:
Interesting that he is stressy in his stable..my TB is very laid back but always loses condition when stabled due to his cribbing. We never stable him know and let him eat as much hay/haylage as he likes 24/7. I honestly think your horsey needs a change of routine if you are going to achieve a well and stress free horse. TB's are fantastic horses but sometimes keeping things simple is the best way forward with them and it seems to me that there is alot of sugars etc in his feeds which are giving him nervous stressy energy, resulting in weight loss which is obviously the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what the vet/dentist lady said when I grabbed her for 5mins today wi my dilemma!!!!

He got the start of compacted collic when I first started turning him in due to be stressed in the stable (luckily we caught it in time before anything other than abit of constipation and straining happened...poor boy!). He does seem to be very highly strung and stressed one minute and chilled the next! I'm convinced its now the feed......I've been feeding him lots to put on the weight which has then just made hi high as a kite and burn it all off by being prancy and bonkers! Oh dear! Right guys.....back to basics....

What do u think about this,

1 large scoop of fast fibre
1 large scoop of micronised linseed
Cod oil, veg oil, garlic

2/3 times a day

With ad lib hay and haylage at night!!?? And a fast fibre bucket to munch on through the night?? What do we think???


I really appreciate all this advice, thanks!
 
Chellery1 said:
This is exactly what the vet/dentist lady said when I grabbed her for 5mins today wi my dilemma!!!!

He got the start of compacted collic when I first started turning him in due to be stressed in the stable (luckily we caught it in time before anything other than abit of constipation and straining happened...poor boy!). He does seem to be very highly strung and stressed one minute and chilled the next! I'm convinced its now the feed......I've been feeding him lots to put on the weight which has then just made hi high as a kite and burn it all off by being prancy and bonkers! Oh dear! Right guys.....back to basics....

What do u think about this,

1 large scoop of fast fibre
1 large scoop of micronised linseed
Cod oil, veg oil, garlic

2/3 times a day

With ad lib hay and haylage at night!!?? And a fast fibre bucket to munch on through the night?? What do we think???


I really appreciate all this advice, thanks!
Click to expand...

Right, Im gonna say this in the only way I can as impaction colic is very very serious...believe me I know and it is not something I would wish on anybody. You need to get the horse turned out way more with as much hay/haylage as he wants and if you cant feed him extra in his field seriously consider changing yards. From what you have said he is reacting in exactly the same way my TB did when we started fetching him more last winter and we very nearly lost him. PM me if you would like abit more help as I think simple is best!
 
Fast fibre is pretty low calorie isn't it?

What about a good conditioning chaff, Alfalfa is good for poor doers, top spec conditioning cubes did wonders on my poor doer tb.

I'm not convinced fast fibre alone is going to bulk him up...
 
redriverrock said:
Right, Im gonna say this in the only way I can as impaction colic is very very serious...believe me I know and it is not something I would wish on anybody. You need to get the horse turned out way more with as much hay/haylage as he wants and if you cant feed him extra in his field seriously consider changing yards. From what you have said he is reacting in exactly the same way my TB did when we started fetching him more last winter and we very nearly lost him. PM me if you would like abit more help as I think simple is best!
Click to expand...

He's turned out between 8-9am every day until 4-5pm every day? Will pm you.

Cheers
 
If he gets impacted easily, if you can make his feeds quite wet, that will help. Fast fibre /ready mash will help you out there, cos you have to soak it anyway.(or you can just soak nuts a bit) the oil etc will help as well.
Grass is also good, cos its got a high moisture content and is a natural laxative.
 
Racergirl said:
If he gets impacted easily, if you can make his feeds quite wet, that will help. Fast fibre /ready mash will help you out there, cos you have to soak it anyway.(or you can just soak nuts a bit) the oil etc will help as well.
Grass is also good, cos its got a high moisture content and is a natural laxative.
Click to expand...

I always give him wet feeds and his fast fibre is always soaked into a warm mush. There is a severe lack of grass in the fields so he has big bucket of ready grass so. Tim his fibre is all up there. I give the oil to not only add condition and calories but also to help keep things moving to prevent him getting 'bunged up' again'.

So far, I think I'm going to keep him on the fast fibre, change his mix from the weight gain to topline 4 conditioning cubes and change his chaff to alfalfa chaff.....am I getting close yet??
 
To answer some of your questions:

Fast Fibre and Blue Chip are not the same.

Blue Chip is a balancer, meaning it has a full quota of vitamins and minerals in a small amount of feed (2 mugs is the full dose I think), together with protein to build muscle and stuff that helps the digestion. Balancers help a horse digest the whole ration better including the haylage/hay and extract more nutrients from everything.

Yea Sacc is something that helps the gut in a similar way to a balancer.

Pink Powder is a powdered balancer (Blue Chip is pellets). I'm not sure if powdered balancers contain the protein or not.

Fast Fibre is a low calorie hay replacer feed, with a high fibre content. You can put the full daily recommended amount in a separate bucket, feed it at night and think of it as another haynet. If feeding the recommended amount he will be getting sufficient vitamins and minerals, extras are usually just wee'd out.

You can feed a mug of vegetable oil, you're feeding about a quarter mug total I would think at the moment (based on 3 glugs of each of veg oil and cod liver oil). Is there any particular reason you're feeding both? Baileys Outshine and Micronised Linseed are supplements which are fed in small amounts, containing a high oil content. The Outshine is a balanced feed (I don't mean a balancer), meaning it has all necessary vitamins and minerals to complement the oil, so no need to supplement additional vit E like you would if feeding a mug of veg oil.

I'm not familiar with Badminton Cubes. Look online or phone the manufacturer to see what is the starch, fibre and overall Digestible Energy (calorie) content. Do the same for the mix you're currently feeding. You want the same DE (or greater) than what you're currently feeding, but with less starch and preferably more fibre. The Baileys Topline Cubes are likely to be a better option than the mix you currently feed, as are Spillers Response Slow Release Energy Cubes. But check out the nutritional content as advised, before choosing.

If you're feeding a pelleted balancer eg Blue Chip, you'll be feeding enough protein so don't worry about the protein content of the cubes you choose. If the horse needs more muscle rather than just more weight in general,and you're not feeding a balancer, then look for a relatively high protein content in the cubes. It's a myth that protein causes fizzy horses, its carbohydrates does this. But you can't build muscle from feed alone, you need work too.

Its more likely to be the starch hyping up the horse than the sugar, though sugar can have that effect too. Both are carbohydrates.

Molassed chaff is usually straw coated in molasses. The equine equivalent of crisps or donuts, but without as much weight gaining properties, I don't think, as the healthier chaffs eg alfalfa/hay/grass chaffs. Fast Fibre or sugar beet can also be used as a chaff replacer. Sugar beet comes in two types: molassed and unmolassed.

Also, if you're feeding hay/haylage in a small holed net, change to a big holed one. You don't want to slow down his eating, reducing the amount he can consume over night.

Hope this helps.
 
Piglet said:
I swear by soaked grass nuts and good warm rugs, a horse can drop do much weight not been rugged adequately.
Click to expand...

I've got some grass nuts actually!i might start giving him some as a treat. His rugs are all heavy, new and very snug! Hat was my first port of call when I started loosing x
 
Sorry to butt in here but I don't think you should feed a 'large scoop' of micronised linseed, usually a cupful twice a day or a cup and a half should be enough if mixed with other feed, fast fibre is basically a hay replacement, it's good but I would be feeding calm and condition with alpha a oil, micronised linseed and pink powder or another balancer such as blue chip/top spec, fast fibre and blue chip definitely don't do the same job! I wouldn't add much extra oil to this although you could still use the cod liver oil. Sounds like keeping him calm, relaxed and turned out as much as possible is the key. Good luck! :)

ETS someone beat me to it with a far more informative reply!
 
Yeah fast fibre is low fat but adding the linseed turns it into something totally diff. Op I would drop the garlic because it does bad things to the gut apparently! A new research thing. The linseed is easy. It's a powder that you just add to feed. I'd do a mug in each feed and see how he goes with that. You can adjust as you see the results. Really hope it works for him. My girl is sixteen too and she is stressy in the stable so just lives out no which suits her better.
 
Definitely try the grass nuts, there are so many different feeds on the market that all claim miracles it too much choice!!! They are comparatively low in sugar so should be suitable for an excitesble natured horse, good luck with whatever you try
 
I think that sounds better as far as non heating and def good to soak feeds and add oil. I know the grazing this time of year is going to be pretty rubbish but it is still worth turning him out more if you can. The less stressed he is the easier it will be for you to maintain a healthy weight and by keeping more mobile his gut should function better. When our grazing gets bad me and the kids fill big builders bags with hay/haylage and drag it around the field...avoiding the muddy bits and scatter it around in small piles so he has to keep moving and try and replicate normal grazing. Feeding from the floor means they can digest food easier and hopefully avoid impaction. It is very very important you make sure he is drinking, my TB is terrible at not drinking if it gets a bit cold so we make sure warmish water is available when he comes into the yard for his feeds etc...he slurps this up and it makes me feel better! It was lack of movement and fluid intake that nearly killed him so we are very careful about this!
 
Also I don think you will need the oil if you are feeding linseed because it contains lots of oils which com naturally from the seed.

Op feel sorry for you. Lots of conflicting advice. Hope you get there soon!
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
To answer some of your questions:

Fast Fibre and Blue Chip are not the same.

Blue Chip is a balancer, meaning it has a full quota of vitamins and minerals in a small amount of feed (2 mugs is the full dose I think), together with protein to build muscle and stuff that helps the digestion. Balancers help a horse digest the whole ration better including the haylage/hay and extract more nutrients from everything.

Yea Sacc is something that helps the gut in a similar way to a balancer.

Pink Powder is a powdered balancer (Blue Chip is pellets). I'm not sure if powdered balancers contain the protein or not.



Fast Fibre is a low calorie hay replacer feed, with a high fibre content. You can put the full daily recommended amount in a separate bucket, feed it at night and think of it as another haynet. If feeding the recommended amount he will be getting sufficient vitamins and minerals, extras are usually just wee'd out.

You can feed a mug of vegetable oil, you're feeding about a quarter mug total I would think at the moment (based on 3 glugs of each of veg oil and cod liver oil). Is there any particular reason you're feeding both? Baileys Outshine and Micronised Linseed are supplements which are fed in small amounts, containing a high oil content. The Outshine is a balanced feed (I don't mean a balancer), meaning it has all necessary vitamins and minerals to complement the oil, so no need to supplement additional vit E like you would if feeding a mug of veg oil.

I'm not familiar with Badminton Cubes. Look online or phone the manufacturer to see what is the starch, fibre and overall Digestible Energy (calorie) content. Do the same for the mix you're currently feeding. You want the same DE (or greater) than what you're currently feeding, but with less starch and preferably more fibre. The Baileys Topline Cubes are likely to be a better option than the mix you currently feed, as are Spillers Response Slow Release Energy Cubes. But check out the nutritional content as advised, before choosing.

If you're feeding a pelleted balancer eg Blue Chip, you'll be feeding enough protein so don't worry about the protein content of the cubes you choose. If the horse needs more muscle rather than just more weight in general,and you're not feeding a balancer, then look for a relatively high protein content in the cubes. It's a myth that protein causes fizzy horses, its carbohydrates does this. But you can't build muscle from feed alone, you need work too.

Its more likely to be the starch hyping up the horse than the sugar, though sugar can have that effect too. Both are carbohydrates.

Molassed chaff is usually straw coated in molasses. The equine equivalent of crisps or donuts, but without as much weight gaining properties, I don't think, as the healthier chaffs eg alfalfa/hay/grass chaffs. Fast Fibre or sugar beet can also be used as a chaff replacer. Sugar beet comes in two types: molassed and unmolassed.

Also, if you're feeding hay/haylage in a small holed net, change to a big holed one. You don't want to slow down his eating, reducing the amount he can consume over night.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks for your reply! Very helpful indeed.

So, what do you think of this as a diet for my boy??? He needs weight, topline and muscle!?

Muchly appreciated! I'm going to print this out and pin on wall!
 
Forgot to add when my TB was in at night he had 4 very large haylage small hole nets which were always empty within 9 hours...it is amazing how much some of these TB's can get through!
 
TED2010 said:
Sorry to butt in here but I don't think you should feed a 'large scoop' of micronised linseed, usually a cupful twice a day or a cup and a half should be enough if mixed with other feed, fast fibre is basically a hay replacement, it's good but I would be feeding calm and condition with alpha a oil, micronised linseed and pink powder or another balancer such as blue chip/top spec, fast fibre and blue chip definitely don't do the same job! I wouldn't add much extra oil to this although you could still use the cod liver oil. Sounds like keeping him calm, relaxed and turned out as much as possible is the key. Good luck! :)

ETS someone beat me to it with a far more informative reply!
Click to expand...

I now realise that micronised linseed is a powder...not the chaffy grass I had imagined in my head...thus the "1 large scoop". Please excuse the duff gen I was told regarding fast fibre and blue chip....I've just read up and I see that I was told the WRONG thing!

Your very right about keeping him calm, relaxed and turned out....I just need to find out what's best to feed him!! So many options and its hard when your not very knowledgable like myself.....thank god for forums like these where I can pick everyone's brain!

Cheers
 
claribella said:
Also I don think you will need the oil if you are feeding linseed because it contains lots of oils which com naturally from the seed.

Op feel sorry for you. Lots of conflicting advice. Hope you get there soon!
Click to expand...


Conflicting but helpful!! Any recommendations for a feeding plan very much appreciated as I'm rather confused lol! I've emailed baileys website but it takes 10 days for them to get back to you! Boooo!
 
If you are feeding Alfa I would change to Alfa Oil, this provides the roughage and the oil and is not heating.
A balancer, which provides the Vitamins and Minerals, ad lib hay and Speedi beet, again providing fibre but not heating. A good wet Speedi Beet keeps them well hydrated too.

Well rugged so that he is not using his own body heat to keep warm.

Baileys are up at the YHL so it would be better if you rang them say on Tuesday or Wednesday. It is better to talk to them than to email them.
 
Last edited:
claribella said:
Yeah fast fibre is low fat but adding the linseed turns it into something totally diff. Op I would drop the garlic because it does bad things to the gut apparently! A new research thing. The linseed is easy. It's a powder that you just add to feed. I'd do a mug in each feed and see how he goes with that. You can adjust as you see the results. Really hope it works for him. My girl is sixteen too and she is stressy in the stable so just lives out no which suits her better.
Click to expand...

I brought him in as he as getting stressed when the others were being brought in lol! I can't win with him! Think the linseed is looking like a good option.
 
What do I think of what? Lol. I've forgotten what you're planning, it took me so long to type that reply!

If he was mine, I would go with (off the top of my head and with no nutrient research, which I would do if he was mine):

1) Alfa A Oil for chaff.

2) Baileys Topline or Spillers Slow Response Cubes or I'd try Pure Feeds conditioning feed, depending on what my local feed merchant stocks.

3) Vegetable oil with added vitamin E as necessary, because you said it helps his gut movement, as well as weight gain.

4) Blue Chip balancer.

5) A bucket of Fast Fibre or Speedibeet or Alfa-Beet in the stable at night. Preferably the Alfa-Beet, if feed merchant has it, as I find it the most fattening of the 3.

6) Ad lib hay/haylage in a large holed net or loose, when stabled. Replace some of this with grass chaff if you prefer.

7) Keep up with the 3 feeds a day of chaff, cubes, oil, balancer.

Make each feed no more than 2 large round scoops each, because the stomach is the size of a rugby ball and you don't want any starch in the hind gut, you want it digested in the stomach.

Feed upto the manufacturers recommended levels of cubes, if necessary. This may mean giving more than 3 feeds daily, if you're to keep to the 2 scoop rule. The alternative is to stick with 3 feeds but find some way to increase the calorie content (plenty of ideas on this thread!).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top