I never rant but I am now.............!

B

Bananaman

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What do we think of the article in today's H&H..........'Are we becoming colour blind?'?

It is about the current rise in popularity of the coloured horse.

I admit to not having read it word for word yet but am I alone in being angered by Natalie Kirkpatrick's comment............

'' Just because a horse is successful in competition, it doesn't mean that it should be a stallion''

OK, I can go with that, for me temperament is one of the most important qualities along with good conformation, so yes, I'll agree there. However, she continues........

''We don't need that many stallions - just one of each type would be ideal''

WHAT?

Mrs Kilpatrick does go on to clarify her remark by saying that Holland breeds much better sports horses than we do and they have only ever had one coloured stallion.
Well I guess that may be true but it doesn't mean that we are not capable of breeding horses that are worthy of being stallions AND happen to be two tone.

My view is that if we are not breeding for colour, and I do think that all the afore mentioned qualities are much more important than just colour, does Mrs K feel the same about chestnut stallions and bays ...............? Should we only have one type of each in each colour?

Whatever happened to freedom of choice?

I totally agree that we must keep up the standards and surely that is partly the job of the grading judges but also partly of the mare owners not to breed from inferior mares.

Well, I've let off a bit of steam now!
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What do you all think?
 
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I would dispute the point about Dutch sports horses, too.

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I think you'd find it hard....on pure numbers alone
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The KWPN is the most successful horse in SJ'ing....FACT
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Not just freedom of choice, what about keeping a healthy gene pool.
I haven't read the article so am going to have a good read this afternoon but I get exasperated about the continual comparison to Holland & German as the ideal in terms of horse breeding.
Horses are bred in their thousands and a huge number go on the scrapheap in both countries. They do breed successful horses, but they also breed vast quantities of dross. They also inbreed some very undesirable imperfections.
 
Am i reading correctly?? so this woman is advocating INBREEDING?? And whatever happened to freedom of choice, not all people have the same view of how a certain type of horse should look, we all have a personal preferance.......
 
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I would dispute the point about Dutch sports horses, too.

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I think you'd find it hard....on pure numbers alone
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The KWPN is the most successful horse in SJ'ing....FACT
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Was going to say something similar lol
 
H&H should be ashamed to publish such an article and I am seriously considering cancelling my subscription

Stating that "holland breeds much better sports horses than the UK" in OUR NATIONAL HORSE MAGAZINE is the biggest knife in the back to hardworking, struglling british horse breeders who are producing d**N good competition horses and they aren't 'factory farmed' (whilst we are in bird flu mode) unlike the Dutch, Germans, etc - whose horses are overfaced and over trained when young and don't last and stay sound half as long as a quality british bred equivalent.

Horse and hound should be totally shunned for publishing such a load of rubbish - irrespective of the coloured horse aspect (a good horse is a good horse irrespective of it's colour and there ARE a number of coloured stallions standing just 'cos they are not bay/brown/chestnut/grey and for no other reason).
 
Completely agree on the gene pool. Was talking a couple of days ago about how damaging the "limited" breeding can be to horses. Too many people are breeding for one type (unfortunately colour being a main one at the mo), and if they come across a good bloodline, they get bred into similar lines over and over again, and surely this is going to start causing defects and "faults" in later generations. Look at show dogs, they breed for particular "qualities" and slowly behavioural, or conformational weaknesses creep in, because of "inbreeding". Not a good thing in my opinion. I think alot of "coloured" fans will agree they like them because they often have a pony brain and cleverness, invariably from pony blood that gave them their colour. Now people are obsessed by the colour, and are loosing the original qualities that make them popular.

Just my opinion though!!
 
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H&H should be ashamed to publish such an article and I am seriously considering cancelling my subscription

Stating that "holland breeds much better sports horses than the UK" in OUR NATIONAL HORSE MAGAZINE is the biggest knife in the back to hardworking, struglling british horse breeders who are producing d**N good competition horses and they aren't 'factory farmed' (whilst we are in bird flu mode) unlike the Dutch, Germans, etc - whose horses are overfaced and over trained when young and don't last and stay sound half as long as a quality british bred equivalent.

Horse and hound should be totally shunned for publishing such a load of rubbish - irrespective of the coloured horse aspect (a good horse is a good horse irrespective of it's colour and there ARE a number of coloured stallions standing just 'cos they are not bay/brown/chestnut/grey and for no other reason).

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Oh I do applaud!! I totally agree!! Just too knackered to put it into words!
 
same thing happened in TB breeding - too many Northern Dancer horses around and very little else for a while

and then you got the Sadlers Wells lot - a son of ND - and lots of stallions by him carrying on the inbreeding bit.
 
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What do we think of the article in today's H&H..........'Are we becoming colour blind?'?



''We don't need that many stallions - just one of each type would be ideal''

WHAT?


My view is that if we are not breeding for colour, and I do think that all the afore mentioned qualities are much more important than just colour, does Mrs K feel the same about chestnut stallions and bays ...............? Should we only have one type of each in each colour?

Whatever happened to freedom of choice?

I totally agree that we must keep up the standards and surely that is partly the job of the grading judges but also partly of the mare owners not to breed from inferior mares.


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I haven't even seen it yet and am hot under the collar!

So what happens if 'the one and only' turns out to be absolute rubbish, either throwing blanks or disgusting stock? Where does the replacement for that 'one' come from? Oh, right, I'll just pop to Germany, they'll have a good'un cos we can't breed them!! what utter crap - she should be shot or at the least unemployed!!
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I can't believe that H&H have been so irresponsible as to print that rubbish after all, it goes all over the world to be read by thousands that could begin to think that Britain can't breed good horses cos it was printed in H&H! Some ambassador they've turned out to be!

I quite agree with your comment about breeding from inferior mares but do remember that it takes two to tango; just because a horse has a bit of ability doesn't automatically make it a prime candidate as a stud - but on the other hand, stallion owners, if they have anything about them should refuse to cover mares that don't come up to scratch. It's no good just rubbing their hands and counting the money, they should take some responsibility too IMO.
 
Well not necessarily. According to her website, her breeding strategy is...

''We believe that crossing colour to colour does not often produce a significant improvement in the type of offspring; however a better end product can almost always be assured when using a quality solid colour Thoroughbred or Warmblood in the equation. ''

So they seem to have coloured mares and put them to solid coloured stallions so not inbreeding.

But that is the way that they want to do it.............fine, it works. There are a lot of lovely quality coloured horses coming through that have that sort of breeding.

What about the owner of the solid colour mare that would like to breed a good, useful horse/pony that just might be coloured too? What about their choice?
 
Yes, you're quite right if owners wanted to use a coloured stallion rather than go the route that this stud has chosen. Ridiculous!

Just imagine the uproar if we said there was only allowed to be one stallion of each type that was chestnut etc.!
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I know, and it ruins the qualities people originally used the stallion for IMO!! And not every mare will suit "one" stallion. Breeding for colour is madness IMO, as is overbreeding of any kind!!
 
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I quite agree with your comment about breeding from inferior mares but do remember that it takes two to tango; just because a horse has a bit of ability doesn't automatically make it a prime candidate as a stud - but on the other hand, stallion owners, if they have anything about them should refuse to cover mares that don't come up to scratch. It's no good just rubbing their hands and counting the money, they should take some responsibility too IMO.

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Well yes, and no...
We don't all want to breed the next Olympic horse, in fact some of us with mares of interminate breeding might want to consider breeding from them because they are competent RC types with nice natures...should we be barred from access to the better stallions on these grounds?..breeding should always be about improvement or maintaining a specific pure breed (or both)
 
lol, i know!! I am angry at the assumption that britain breeds inferior stock! i have seen some fantastic british-bred horses (granted, im no expert - owning a horse that was probably an accident, born on the side of a hill!
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), and H&H must have angered many breeders in this country by implying that they arent doing their job correctly.
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I haven't even seen it yet and am hot under the collar!

So what happens if 'the one and only' turns out to be absolute rubbish, either throwing blanks or disgusting stock? Where does the replacement for that 'one' come from? Oh, right, I'll just pop to Germany, they'll have a good'un cos we can't breed them!! what utter crap - she should be shot or at the least unemployed!!
mad.gif

I can't believe that H&H have been so irresponsible as to print that rubbish after all, it goes all over the world to be read by thousands that could begin to think that Britain can't breed good horses cos it was printed in H&H! Some ambassador they've turned out to be!

I quite agree with your comment about breeding from inferior mares but do remember that it takes two to tango; just because a horse has a bit of ability doesn't automatically make it a prime candidate as a stud - but on the other hand, stallion owners, if they have anything about them should refuse to cover mares that don't come up to scratch. It's no good just rubbing their hands and counting the money, they should take some responsibility too IMO.

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Agree with this statement.
Now when it comes to breeding I do have a problem with ppl breeding from a horse who has no competition experience but thats just me (this can i please point out is in no way having a dig at anyone on here).
But as for the colour fashion statement, isnt that the same as when Irish horses were the best horses in the world? the market was flooded wtih them?
Now all of a sudden Continental horses are fasionable - HAHA Ive just bought one, although I wanted a coloured *perhaps Im a fashion victim
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* or is that a sheep
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Anyway, to say to only have one of each is plain stupid, why should we? and if Germany/Holland are the best in the world and the UK are so far behind on breeding then ask ourselves why?
After visiting Germany last year (Aachen) it wasnt difficult to see that the Horse industry is big business! most of the shops, be it clothes, kitchen equipment or even banks had statues of horses or items of tack litterally celebrating all things equestrian. Where do you see that here?
Paul Schokemohle now has up to 10,000 horses!! last year he had 700 foals but bought more!
His breeding programme has been going on for years (since the 80's) Its a huge money making scheme, but out of all the thousand of horses he has, how many are TOP QUALITY? or is it all in a name?
 
i havent read the article as my H&H will be waiting on my door matt for me when i get home from work.

But from whats been said i do think there will be alot of letters of complaint written about this one.

How can it be justified to just have one coloured stallion? And like what has already been said, what about other colours, Bays, Chestnuts etc.......

il air my views fully after ive read the article tonight....
 
Exactly BB's, the reason why there are so many top continental horses is cos they breed a HUGE amount of foals! Also, being controversial here, but it has been backed up by well respected vets, alot of these overbred horses have joint probs that stop them competing later in life, and cause congenital probs.
 
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Now when it comes to breeding I do have a problem with ppl breeding from a horse who has no competition experience but thats just me (this can i please point out is in no way having a dig at anyone on here).

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But surely it depends what you want the horse for? (not having a go at anyone either) Friends of mine run a riding school / trekking place and had a lovely cob mare that they bred quite a few foals from. All of them were nice, solid horses with good temperaments that were perfect for what they needed. I don't agree with indiscriminate breeding but also don't think it shoudl be restricted to stallions / mares with a competition record.
 
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Exactly BB's, the reason why there are so many top continental horses is cos they breed a HUGE amount of foals! Also, being controversial here, but it has been backed up by well respected vets, alot of these overbred horses have joint probs that stop them competing later in life, and cause congenital probs.

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Which is the same problem we have in the racing industry.

My little TB was so inter-bred he ended up having a heart attack and dying aged 12!
Thankfully he neveer had any joint problems, but we was a sandwich sort of a picnic at times.
 
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Stating that "holland breeds much better sports horses than the UK" in OUR NATIONAL HORSE MAGAZINE is the biggest knife in the back to hardworking, struglling british horse breeders who are producing d**N good competition horses and they aren't 'factory farmed' (whilst we are in bird flu mode) unlike the Dutch, Germans, etc - whose horses are overfaced and over trained when young and don't last and stay sound half as long as a quality british bred equivalent.

Horse and hound should be totally shunned for publishing such a load of rubbish - irrespective of the coloured horse aspect (a good horse is a good horse irrespective of it's colour and there ARE a number of coloured stallions standing just 'cos they are not bay/brown/chestnut/grey and for no other reason).

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Well said!

I will never agree with the Europan breeding farms, horses are massed produced, broken early and doing more than they realistically should be mentally and physically able to before their time. Yet they are imported into Britain en mass as they are fashionable, especially if coloured. Yes KPWN are the most successful jumping horses, however I think Britian is now saturated with them, many of which are Holland/Germany/Belgian cast offs.

Bact to the point - where is the support for our breeding? We have some fantastic stallions in the UK and they should be revered not discarded inv favour of something European.

Its like that coloured TB, he was bred to be coloured. Why would we need to do that? He's not a particularily great horse and probably won't win anything but he will make thousands at stud because of his colour..

havnt read the article yet, but from reading this I am appauled at the comments made....
 
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Now when it comes to breeding I do have a problem with ppl breeding from a horse who has no competition experience but thats just me (this can i please point out is in no way having a dig at anyone on here).

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But surely it depends what you want the horse for? (not having a go at anyone either) Friends of mine run a riding school / trekking place and had a lovely cob mare that they bred quite a few foals from. All of them were nice, solid horses with good temperaments that were perfect for what they needed. I don't agree with indiscriminate breeding but also don't think it shoudl be restricted to stallions / mares with a competition record.

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Okay my main problem (i should have explained) is that ppl who have a mare, its temp isnt great, or it wont jump, cant do a lot with it mainly due to temp or that its broken down due to rubbish confirmation so waht do they do.... put it in foal.
Hey they might be lucky and breed something suitable, but then again....
I worked on a stud, we could have the best of the best from both lines but that didnt mean we were gonna end up with something brilliant. Some of the shite that came out.
Breeding is a lottery....

What your friends are doing I can totally see why they do what they do, I have no problem with this they are breeding for a reason.
Its ppl who run out of ideas (usually because they dont have a clue in the first instance) who jsut go *well ive got a mare lets breed a foal*
 
We profess to animal welfare - hate the idea of eating horse meat

and then blindly go on supporting the FACTORY FARMING of horses in holland and germany !!

WHAT DO people think happens to all those 'spare' foals bred by PS and his ilk - they get eaten.

and yet people here will still carry on buying from abroad 'cos it has 'made in germany ' tattoed on it's arse instead of buying a sounder, not overfaced, not inbred, quality BRITISH competition horse

H&H are a disgrace as our national horse magazine for publishing an article that sticks a knife firmly in the back of british breeders

"holland breeds better sports horses" = RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH

WHERE is SportsHorse GB, BHHS, etc - will they be given equal space in next weeks H&H to provide a rebuttal to this stupid and damaging article

NB - this article has been published JUST when people in the UK may be considering using a UK BRITISH BRED stallion on their mare

yep H&H - why not put a few more british breeders out of business..........after all - we're probably people who take your magazine by subscription and pay your bloody wages !!!
 
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Its ppl who run out of ideas (usually because they dont have a clue in the first instance) who jsut go *well ive got a mare lets breed a foal*

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I completely agree with you on that point. I think whatever job you have in mind for a foal you should choose the best possible 'parents' and certainly shouldn't breed from an unsuitable mare just because you can't do anything else with her or even worse - 'because she's pretty'
 
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We profess to animal welfare - hate the idea of eating horse meat

and then blindly go on supporting the FACTORY FARMING of horses in holland and germany !!

WHAT DO people think happens to all those 'spare' foals bred by PS and his ilk - they get eaten.

and yet people here will still carry on buying from abroad 'cos it has 'made in germany ' tattoed on it's arse instead of buying a sounder, not overfaced, not inbred, quality BRITISH competition horse

H&H are a disgrace as our national horse magazine for publishing an article that sticks a knife firmly in the back of british breeders

"holland breeds better sports horses" = RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH

WHERE is SportsHorse GB, BHHS, etc - will they be given equal space in next weeks H&H to provide a rebuttal to this stupid and damaging article

NB - this article has been published JUST when people in the UK may be considering using a UK BRITISH BRED stallion on their mare

yep H&H - why not put a few more british breeders out of business..........after all - we're probably people who take your magazine by subscription and pay your bloody wages !!!

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Hey I hear ya...

BREATHHHHHH!!!

Couldnt agree more. Thankfully my *dutch* horse doesnt have anything tattooed on his arse
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Youve also got to remember not everyone goes out to buy warmbloods specfically, I bought a horse because it suited me and what i wanted to do - it just so happend to be from Holland.
Hell I travelled miles to try an irish horse specfically because of its breeding, it was a heap of SHITE!!!
 
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Its ppl who run out of ideas (usually because they dont have a clue in the first instance) who jsut go *well ive got a mare lets breed a foal*

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I completely agree with you on that point. I think whatever job you have in mind for a foal you should choose the best possible 'parents' and certainly shouldn't breed from an unsuitable mare just because you can't do anything else with her or even worse - 'because she's pretty'

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Yep, thats what i was trying to say lol
 
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