I really dont want to be a bitch but.......

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Biglets Mummy

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I am so angry this morning that apologies now to dumping this on this forum but I am going to explode if I don't get it off my chest.
I am a nice person. I am friendly,polite and devoted to my pets.
I have 2 lovely little mini shitlands one of which has had [FONT=arial, sans-serif]laminitis in the past so I watch him like a hawk weight taping regularly and hopefully being a caring aware owner.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]So cut forward to last week when the little shits got out into the bigger paddock whilst I was out and probably had a few good hours gorging. I got them in straight away and left them in for the next day with limited hay to try and control any weight gain.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]The lammi one ballooned so i decided to put them in the barn for the next week with very strict access to hay and monitor....WELL...you would think I was a witch starving them slowly to death. THEY HAVE HAY...Just look !!!
I have the horses at home but their are 3 other houses on the farm so its all a bit communal sometimes and I have no problem with people petting the horses. The one neighbour is very well meaning but clueless when it comes to horses and thinks all horses should be sat on your sofa with a selection of magazines...you know the type.....knocked on my door the other day whilst I was in the middle of a really important phone call with work to say that " They were all looking for me "????????????????
Everyday for the past week she has sort me out to tell me that they are hungry,poor little devils,blah blah blah. Her daughter ( whom I am teaching to ride for FREEE by the way) told me that her mum had said she was going to report me to the RSPCA for being cruel. I hope she was joking.
So I got hold of her and being non confrontational I gently explained that they are not starving,they have a huge barn to run around in,have a water bucket big enough to swim in and are loved and adored by me. I asked her if she understood how awful and painful Laminitus is but she didn't want to know. Just said it was so cruel to not have them out in the field running around. I have tried and tried to explain but she wont listen.
Then...as I am giving the daughter a lesson in the field last night the other neighbour came over with a huge bag of carrots. Yep you've guessed it....because I am starving my ponies...I could have cried so again I gently explained and asked that no treats or carrots etc to be given to my ponies, that I wasn't being cruel and that if you would all just listen to me you would understand. Might as well as talked to the wall.
So...Cut forward to this morning...I turned the big lads out and when went back to sort the minis out the neighbour and daughter are waiting to see where I am going to put them today as" they look starving". I lost it a bit and said " You stick them where you like then and then you can pay the vets bills and have my friend put to sleep when it gets so bad that he cant take any more " All a bit dramatic I know but I was so upset...
They looked as if I had gone mad and seem genuinely baffled as to why I reacted the way I did. The ponies are now on my front lawn away from everyone as I don't trust them not to be feeding them.
What am I doing wrong??? They are far from starving and have hay every couple of hours.....Its such a close community here that I cant fall out with them as that would mean moving and I cant do that. I just want to be respected and not to feel like some witch.
I might add that my 2 ponies look like sideboards they are so fat.....Sorry to rant....I love this forum and just need some advice as to how to be tactful..which I have been ...or do i just tell everyone to go away and risk spoiling the happy atmosphere that normally prevails here.
My friend thinks I should have a word with our landlady and see if she can just tactfully say that I am not starving them but I would rather handle this myself without telling tales if you know what I mean !!
Thanks all and have a great Easter with all your four legged friends....

[/FONT]
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
give them some literature on lammi to read?

hugs. i hate interfering people and would also have exploded.
Click to expand...

Agree. Print off some info and give it to them. It must be quite difficult for a non horsy person to understand. To them, they must think horses are designed to eat grass. I bet no one ever told them grass poisons horses every year.
 
it's simple

go and see your veterinary practice, ask them to write a letter, a strong one, or a notice, with their name undersigned explaining why the ponies are being managed for laminitis and the outcomes if they are not managed. Idiots like you are talking about won't argue with a vet!!!

Or tell them to do one, grrr!
 
Why not contact a horse welfare group explain your problem with your neighbours and ask if they could explain to all your neighbours about Laminitis in detail preferably with pics or vid. They obviously aren't taking what you say seriously mayhap they would from a recognised horse welfare group like Blue cross or WHW.
 
Ring the RSPCA or WHW yourself, explain the situation, and get them to visit, speak to these people and explain the risk they are putting your horses under. It may not be treated as a priority due to the outstanding emergencies/urgent calls they already have, but it won't harm to at least speak to an officer and explain your concerns. Secondly, I would put a notice up telling people not to feed under any circumstances.

I have no problems with people being concerned - it's a good thing people are as a lot of suffering would continue if they weren't, but they shouldn't for one second start feeding other peoples' horses - that is something which really irks me. I can't stand these people who buy carrots for 'poor starving horses'. Completely pointless as they have no nutritional value anyway, and just create more risk.
 
Deep breath, count to ten, another deep breath.

What you need is a plan.


1/ Ask them all to come to yours for coffee this tomorrow evening or on the weekend, all at the same time. Tell them you understand their concerns so you'd like to all sit down together and you apologise for your outburst.

2/ Spend an hour online and print off pictures of laminitic damage. Really shock tactic stuff...like this
lami1_zps1f2fe628.jpg

lami2_zps584a2d07.jpg

lami3_zpsad1e8e28.jpg


3/ Follow this link and there is a downloadable PDF. Print copies for everyone to take home but talk through it with them over your coffee. https://www.bluecross.org.uk/2146-2832/Laminitis.html

4/ When they arrive, thank them for their concern. Tell them that above all else, you are extremely grateful to have neighbours that care enough about your ponies to be concerned for their welfare and you really appreciate that.

5/ Ask them to please give you 10 minutes to explain what Laminitis is, that your ponies are already prone to it and that it is extremely important that you give them the information that could potentially save your ponies' lives. Hand them each a PDF and talk through it with them and show them the pictures.

6/ Explain to them that fruits and vegetables like apples and carrots are very high in sugar and sugar is the number 1 enemy in the fight against laminitis. You already know the weight of your ponies, so weigh out the recommended amount of hay for a day and have it there in a bag for them to see. You can show them physically what the horses are allowed to eat. It will be something tangible.

7/ Tell them how much your ponies mean to you. Show them pictures of them and you together and explain that your number 1 priority is their health and safety and so this is something that is extremely important to you, but you also find it very upsetting to be thought of as neglectful when you are doing all that you can to keep them from getting ill.

8/ If it's still not getting through at this point, tell them that to a horse or pony prone to laminitis, feeding high sugar foods, like too much spring grass, too much good hay, treats, hard feeds etc. is like poisoning your child.

Stay calm, don't get into arguments and if you have any vet nurse friends or any other HHOers that are local that can come and help you, ask. I would if I was local, but I am in Wiltshire and have no idea where you are.

The point is, they are not doing anything wrong in their eyes. It is their perception you need to change that's all. It's a simple case of education.

Calm, concise, friendly and informative. You'll end up with a farm full of people on "lami watch" and all working together!
 
I had this problem once so I printed off lami info from the Redwings website, laminated it and stuck it on the gate.

It is really tough, they don't realise that we would like nothing better than to chuck them out on lush grazing but it would be a death sentence.

I feel your pain. x
 
Thanks so much everyone...I feel a bit calmer now so inhaler put back in handbag...I think it a brilliant idea to print off seem pictures that are particularly unpleasant..I am going to be unavailable for riding lessons for a bit as well until I calm down. Funny enough as I type this an email has come through from the daughter with some pictures she took. All a bit creepy creepy. I am sending her the link to the Blue Cross info page on lami...Thanks again all. xxx
 
_GG_ said:
Deep breath, count to ten, another deep breath.

What you need is a plan.


1/ Ask them all to come to yours for coffee this tomorrow evening or on the weekend, all at the same time. Tell them you understand their concerns so you'd like to all sit down together and you apologise for your outburst.

2/ Spend an hour online and print off pictures of laminitic damage. Really shock tactic stuff...like this
lami1_zps1f2fe628.jpg

lami2_zps584a2d07.jpg

lami3_zpsad1e8e28.jpg


3/ Follow this link and there is a downloadable PDF. Print copies for everyone to take home but talk through it with them over your coffee. https://www.bluecross.org.uk/2146-2832/Laminitis.html

4/ When they arrive, thank them for their concern. Tell them that above all else, you are extremely grateful to have neighbours that care enough about your ponies to be concerned for their welfare and you really appreciate that.

5/ Ask them to please give you 10 minutes to explain what Laminitis is, that your ponies are already prone to it and that it is extremely important that you give them the information that could potentially save your ponies' lives. Hand them each a PDF and talk through it with them and show them the pictures.

6/ Explain to them that fruits and vegetables like apples and carrots are very high in sugar and sugar is the number 1 enemy in the fight against laminitis. You already know the weight of your ponies, so weigh out the recommended amount of hay for a day and have it there in a bag for them to see. You can show them physically what the horses are allowed to eat. It will be something tangible.

7/ Tell them how much your ponies mean to you. Show them pictures of them and you together and explain that your number 1 priority is their health and safety and so this is something that is extremely important to you, but you also find it very upsetting to be thought of as neglectful when you are doing all that you can to keep them from getting ill.

8/ If it's still not getting through at this point, tell them that to a horse or pony prone to laminitis, feeding high sugar foods, like too much spring grass, too much good hay, treats, hard feeds etc. is like poisoning your child.

Stay calm, don't get into arguments and if you have any vet nurse friends or any other HHOers that are local that can come and help you, ask. I would if I was local, but I am in Wiltshire and have no idea where you are.

The point is, they are not doing anything wrong in their eyes. It is their perception you need to change that's all. It's a simple case of education.

Calm, concise, friendly and informative. You'll end up with a farm full of people on "lami watch" and all working together!
Click to expand...

Brilliant idea.....I might just do that....these pictures are gruesome enough to maybe get the point over. Thanks for this. really appreciate it.
 
Biglets Mummy said:
Thanks so much everyone...I feel a bit calmer now so inhaler put back in handbag...I think it a brilliant idea to print off seem pictures that are particularly unpleasant..I am going to be unavailable for riding lessons for a bit as well until I calm down. Funny enough as I type this an email has come through from the daughter with some pictures she took. All a bit creepy creepy. I am sending her the link to the Blue Cross info page on lami...Thanks again all. xxx
Click to expand...

It's not creepy....it's actually very sweet for them to be so concerned. I'm dealing with an ongoing welfare issue at the moment with horses local to me and the owner is being extremely difficult to deal with, but with the right attitude, you can get through to people in the end.

Please don't just send links. Repair the relationship, go and speak to them all in person if they don't come to you. You all have to live together. Where in the country are you? PM me if you prefer xx
 
Isn't it amazing how many people think they know better than you because they are too ignorant to have any idea of the facts? Stand your ground, you are in the right!

I hope your shitlands get back to a reasonable size soon and that you can stop these people interfering with your ponies' welfare.

You could always show them this thread...
 
Agree with the comment about giving them literature.

It worked for my friend's dad who used to always feed her two ponies carrots (they're on soaked hay and limited grazing)

Also in the movie Water for Elephants, a horse is PTS because of it- dramatic hollywood version but it works

Ax
 
Morag4 said:
Why not contact a horse welfare group explain your problem with your neighbours and ask if they could explain to all your neighbours about Laminitis in detail preferably with pics or vid. They obviously aren't taking what you say seriously mayhap they would from a recognised horse welfare group like Blue cross or WHW.
Click to expand...

This is what I'd do. I used to have this problem with people who went through or past my field, so do sympathise with you.
 
Difficult situation and one I hear about all the time as a vet. I've had clients reported to welfare organisations for "starving" their laminitic ponies and for not rugging shetlands when it's raining/below 10C. In this situation I agree education is probably going to be best, blue cross make fantastic handouts as previously mentioned. Why not include some "stable management" lessons along with the riding lessons or invite them to watch your next vets visit. Let the RSPCA come round if they want to - just make sure neighbours are there.
People like horses to be kept "naturally", I agree entirely, but for a Shetland "natural" is a freezing cold windy moor with very little grass and certainly not the nice green variety found in most pony paddocks. I remember reading a story somewhere years ago about a show pony that had hideous recurrent laminitis, the owners tried everything and were on the point of putting it down when as a last ditch effort they turned it loose on the moor for the winter, the pony shivered and had to walk miles looking for food....but it never got laminitis again.
 
What I have just done is emailed the daughter that I am teaching to ride to say that tonight's lesson is going to be a non ridden lesson and is going to be all about Lami and as they are looking to buy her a pony it would be good if her parents could come along so that they can support her should the problem ever arise !! They are all very non horsey so hopefully I will come across as slightly more knowledgeable than them and I will print off pictures etc.

Brilliant advice from you all as always.Thanks guys.My inner bitch is receding !! xxx
 
Biglets Mummy said:
What I have just done is emailed the daughter that I am teaching to ride to say that tonight's lesson is going to be a non ridden lesson and is going to be all about Lami and as they are looking to buy her a pony it would be good if her parents could come along so that they can support her should the problem ever arise !! They are all very non horsey so hopefully I will come across as slightly more knowledgeable than them and I will print off pictures etc.
Click to expand...

I think that's a really good idea. It's always going to be hard for someone who has never seen lami to appreciate how much 'just a bit more' food can make them suffer, and just how horrific it can be. Hopefully in a lesson context, with you in the instructor's seat, they'll be able to start to understand what you're doing and why. Good luck!
 
Biglets Mummy said:
What I have just done is emailed the daughter that I am teaching to ride to say that tonight's lesson is going to be a non ridden lesson and is going to be all about Lami and as they are looking to buy her a pony it would be good if her parents could come along so that they can support her should the problem ever arise !! They are all very non horsey so hopefully I will come across as slightly more knowledgeable than them and I will print off pictures etc.

Brilliant advice from you all as always.Thanks guys.My inner bitch is receding !! xxx
Click to expand...

Great idea :)
 
I'm sure they mean well.
I know its tough but you have to stick to what you are doing and keep explaining why.

Can you get a book, or find a website and give them as much info as you can about it.
Even going to a rescuer centre and seeing a suffering pony and speaking to carer should get through to them.
 
I was going to suggest that you tell them a little white lie and say you have been in touch with the vet and they are being treated according to the vet's instructions. You idea of having a Stable Management lesson instead of a ridden one is brilliant.

I have prevented ponies getting full blown laminitis if I have spotted the early signs and then confined them to a stable (barn) for a week with only a small amount of hay to eat. And that was in the days before I had heard of soaking hay or adding magnesium or anything like that.
 
Well done, OP, I think a stable management lesson is perfect. They mustn't feed your ponies and must understand that lami is extremely painful and life threatening. Yu aren't being cruel, rather sensible and caring. It kills me that non horsey people are so determined we're cruel to restrict grazing (or not want the massive bag of grass clippings they re brought round cos they can't be bothered to compost it :rolleyes3:

Do update us, hope they really 'get it'.
 
When I was a welfare officer calls from people convinced that horses and ponies on lami management where being starved to death where regular .
I don't think that half of them ever really believed you when you told them it was good management that they where seeing .
Good way forward OP I hope the lami lesson goes well but don't be surprised if they don't 'get ' it.
 
Similar happened to my mum - she had a "native" grey pony who used to go in a hard standing pen during the day & out all night. A very elderly man used to navigate one gate with barbed wire, another gate in the post and rail then another heavy gate with a very excited thelwell behind it - FREE FREE I'M FREE !
 
God, they would hate me. I have a shetland i think may have a slight lami problem (due to cresty neck and her hooves were lined last year) so shes one very limited grazing and hay. I think the problem is that people don't consider the size of shetlands, they are 1/4 the side of a normal horse and the portions reflect that. It took me a good few months to stop giving her FAR too much food cause i kept thinking omg this is not enough for a horse.
 
Thank you all so much for all the advice and support...It is good to know that I am not alone !!! Well...here's the update. Mother and daughter turned up for the lesson and I produced my books and did a handout !! kept it all light hearted and fun. The daughter gets it...I explained that look at the size of my 17.3 and then look at the size of the minis and think about the food to weight ratio....Got that ok but the mother actually said...ACTUALLY SAID....." Surely this cant be true. Its all scaremongering!!!" I actually laughed out loud. She then started to argue that she still thought it was really cruel to shut them away ( remember they are in a 26ft barn) and that it cant do them any good to be too thin. My head was in my hands at this point....THEN....the 2 lovely vet students from the farm who were helping with lambing happened to wander down onto the yard so I called them over and bless their hearts they explained again....I thought I had made progress......
Until yesterday morning when a voice yelled up to me " Is is ok to give them a carrot" Now to be honest one little carrot wouldn't kill them but it wont be just one little carrot...I said NO to which I got " Oh the poor little things.Its so cruel"
THEN.....I was told that the daughter had been down with a packet of polos whilst I was out and fed the whole lot. I have now spoken to my landlady who is going to get involved and I have made, with the help of my 73 year old Dad bless him, a stable in my garage so they are away from the communal areas and actually on my lawn mowing it down. They are behind a locked gate. I have to stay calm as I explained we all have to get on but this blatant disregard for my wishes as the ponies owner has made my blood boil but at least I have put them out of harms way ! My blood pressure is through the roof again and it really makes you wonder what is wrong with some people.....
 
jofwigby said:
Similar happened to my mum - she had a "native" grey pony who used to go in a hard standing pen during the day & out all night. A very elderly man used to navigate one gate with barbed wire, another gate in the post and rail then another heavy gate with a very excited thelwell behind it - FREE FREE I'M FREE !
Click to expand...
OMG No !!!!! Words fail me !!!!
 
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